(I'll be fixing the spelling in the thread's title in a moment, don't worry EDIT: The thread's title is now spelled correctly. Carry on! )
Just a bit of clarification: The GUI being rendered at lower-than-preferable resolution (and having enormous buttons) is due to the iPad version being part of design considerations. I'll agree that this may have been a mistake, if only because the platforms are so substantially different that it would be better to design them independently.
The code and engine problems, the incompatibilities with Intel integrated graphics cards (which really shouldn't be considered graphics cards, if you ask me, even if that's how they're advertised; they're more like processors that can also handle a bit of graphics, which isn't the same thing), these have more to do with issues that are still being figured out. The beta team can take a bit of responsibility for this, as we were focused more on tackling the bugs in the actual game itself, so when we hit an incompatibility, we just adjusted our system to make the game work. This was our mistake, not Beamdog's. To wit: if they don't know there's a problem, they can't fix it.
That said, they now know that the Intel chipset thing is a real issue, so they're working on fixing it. Yesterday's patch, which now allows the game to create a .dmp file with every crash (which you should send to beamdmp@gmail.com so I can forward it directly to Cameron), will make fixing those issues a lot simpler, and go a lot faster, which means that you'll be likely to see some solutions sooner.
Personally, I'm pleased with how the release went. Not because I like seeing people who can't install the game, but because there were so many more people who wanted the game than any of us predicted. And once these big issues are resolved, I think everyone will really enjoy the product.
It is quite in a low resolution, You can not count the quality demands between Tablets and computers as a 1:1 ratio - There are screens around which can be larger as the most largest tablet The GUI seems to be designed in a way which may look good on tablets, but not on 1080P Resolution on PC's.
I agree it's a shame that the UI doesn't seem to be variably scalable (like many games--take for instance World of Warcraft). Given their requirements to keep original art assets, this is, unfortunately, understandable. Personally, I play games on a TV across the room, so this doesn't bother me in.
For a tablet Version you have to create a bit lower Content, because a tablet is never as strong as a pc... No matter how high the resolution of the tablet is for example.
This is not true. Today's tablets are more powerful than many computers that are still in service.
Now... If it would have been otherwise, the Tablet Would feature more HQ Content, but its the opposite in reality. The PC EE features so much less Low Res Content.
And please.. Do not accuse me of trolling anymore, i never cursed or humilated anyone at no time Otherwise i could never watch Avatar again without being disgusted about myself
Fair enough, I was perhaps too quick to pull out the "T" word.
@Tarquin Hehe... I bet the hardware i have around at home beats every Tablet, including Ipad Ones So at least that point is still valid
What do i mean? to quote a post from more above:
Aosaw : Just a bit of clarification: The GUI being rendered at lower-than-preferable resolution (and having enormous buttons) is due to the iPad version being part of design considerations. I'll agree that this may have been a mistake, if only because the platforms are so substantially different that it would be better to design them independently.
As i said.. partly a conversion of the Tablet Port You see, i am not that dumb as i may look like when someone is reading my 3'd grade english writing
Sigh. First everyone is bitching about how they're not releasing the game fast enough, and then the second it comes out, suddenly everyone is all like AKSDJFKJIEJFKSLAJFKLJFSDIFJSKLDFJDL THEY SHOULD HAVE WORKED ON IT LONGER. And I know that if they had worked on it longer, everyone would have been bitching about the second delay. Some people are just impossible to please.
That's why the UI scales up to a blurry mess, rather than having discrete resolution settings. That's why the text is blurry, the spell icons etc. It's all dynamically scaled up or down, depending on your screen resolution, which is how android and iOS games cope with different device screen sizes.
While you may be right about the overview (blurry graphics are the result of upscaling from a 'target' resolution provided by mobile), you're loosing the battle with details. iOS games don't worry about upscaling their resolution; the resolution is 'fixed' at 1024x768px, with @2X artwork (so labeled because it's double the size on each axis, resulting in 4x the total pixel count) used if the device is considered 'retina'.
I won't speak about Android, where I suspect you're 100% right -- but iOS games don't do different screen sizes. Thats why so many games are 'better' on iPad than their ports on android; android has fragmentation, iOS doesn't.
The issues with Intel graphics drivers seems to be pretty major. Doesn't Intel have roughly half of the market? With that large a number of Intel users you can't just blame the problem on Intel. You simply make it work for those customers (assuming that it's a very large number). And if the problems with Intel end up being solved by a Direct X fix, for example, then should this not have been foreseen? I mean, maybe it required a lot more user data than they had prior to release. But then you expand the beta, right?
Yes, it's major, but it's Intel's fault, not Beamdog's. The fact is, anyone using an Intel based graphics solution is out of luck with this game (and I find it HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that 'half' the market is Intel; they're dominant in PC, yes, but not graphcis!). They're not out of luck because Beamdog screwed up; they're out of luck because their video 'card' doesn't match the game's minimum requirements: 'OpenGL 2.0 compatible (Intel graphics chipsets are NOT supported)'. True, this originally read something like requiring a Geforce card of a certain generation (200, I think?) but that doesn't matter. The fact is, the much more 'modern' Intel HD 4000 graphics can't handle everything the older cards did. A PC user is responsible for knowing their own hardware and it's capabilities, and in this case that proved important.
Frankly, the failure to support OpenGL is a HUGE mistake on Intel's part; it's the open standard that is the only competitor for DirectX, which is a windows only standard. If you're targeting a multi-platform environment, openGL isn't an option, it's a necessity. So point all the fingers at them, because Beamdog literally didn't have a choice -- and even if they had, OpenGL is still a completely valid option. (The recent Doom and Quake games are both written in OpenGL IIRC, so you can't even complaint about it not being a 'mainstream' option)
That is a link that'll allow you to see his entire post history since launch. He might not have responded to you directly, but he has been talking a lot about bugs, the apple store, etc.
That is a link that'll allow you to see his entire post history since launch. He might not have responded to you directly, but he has been talking a lot about bugs, the apple store, etc.
Well yes. He has been saying things like: "We are working on it." and so on. But the website still says november and when it comes to his remark on "maybe on monday" - what does that mean? Does it mean that they will send the game to AppStore on monday? Does it mean that he hope that Appstore will release it on monday? Does it mean that the new version will be ready for testing on monday?
First of all according to his tweets right now everyone is neck deep in attempting to find fixes for bugs. He said that he hopes to put Paul on this website by monday so that it no longer says "coming in November".
As to the app store, I don't know for certain. My bet is that it will be sent to apple for approval on Monday and they hope to ask for it to be expediated. What that means for how long it'll appear in the app store I can't say. I'm not familiar with apple and their store and don't know the timetables.
Herm, BG needs a magic 8ball item that we can ask questions to.
I feel they tried to get this out before Christmas for a Christmas release which is why it's still in its current Beta state. If they released this around March next year, one would hope they'd have addressed a lot of the bugs by then. I'm not so sure. But then they would have missed the pre-Christmas release.
I have to seriously question what the Beta testers were doing all this time. How they can miss simple things like the Help button with the Question mark still saying Rest. The zoom reset. And various other things that stand out.
@Metal_Hurlant We spotted the Help button (honestly, that's essentially a typo, not a functional "bug), and the zoom reset isn't a bug either; it's a feature that you wish wasn't there (and there's a feature request to improve its functionality). Just clarifying those two points to avoid confusion.
Yes, it's major, but it's Intel's fault, not Beamdog's. The fact is, anyone using an Intel based graphics solution is out of luck with this game (and I find it HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that 'half' the market is Intel; they're dominant in PC, yes, but not graphcis!). They're not out of luck because Beamdog screwed up; they're out of luck because their video 'card' doesn't match the game's minimum requirements: 'OpenGL 2.0 compatible (Intel graphics chipsets are NOT supported)'. True, this originally read something like requiring a Geforce card of a certain generation (200, I think?) but that doesn't matter. The fact is, the much more 'modern' Intel HD 4000 graphics can't handle everything the older cards did. A PC user is responsible for knowing their own hardware and it's capabilities, and in this case that proved important.
Frankly, the failure to support OpenGL is a HUGE mistake on Intel's part; it's the open standard that is the only competitor for DirectX, which is a windows only standard. If you're targeting a multi-platform environment, openGL isn't an option, it's a necessity. So point all the fingers at them, because Beamdog literally didn't have a choice -- and even if they had, OpenGL is still a completely valid option. (The recent Doom and Quake games are both written in OpenGL IIRC, so you can't even complaint about it not being a 'mainstream' option)
The only problem with the Intel thing is that while it might not be 50% of the whole market, its well over 50% of the laptop market. One of the selling points of the game is the low hardware requirements. BG1 and BG2 both run just fine on old integrated Intel graphics, so there was a bit of an assumption that BGEE would be no different.
Its not really Beam dogs/Overhauls problem, but for folks with only a laptop, there is no other option.
But the website still says november and when it comes to his remark on "maybe on monday" - what does that mean? Does it mean that they will send the game to AppStore on monday? Does it mean that he hope that Appstore will release it on monday? Does it mean that the new version will be ready for testing on monday?
It's hard do tell from his tweets whats going on.
They have been testing a candidate build this weekend, and if it passes they will submit it to the App Store Monday. They will ask for expedited review. If they get it, there's a ~48 hour turnaround time.
It's set that way partly because you'll likely want different zoom levels depending on your location. The "default" zoom level is "no zoom", because that's what looks best, and that's what the game resets to.
I didn't say it was a "great" feature, but that's partly how it was designed. A manual "reset zoom" button would be a great way to make that feature more useful, as well as a Graphics option to "Lock Zoom Level" (both of which have been posted in Feature Requests).
It's set that way partly because you'll likely want different zoom levels depending on your location.
lol wut?
You seem to be grasping at straws. Nothing worse than making up excuses on the run as the excuses will expose flawed logic. So the game forces a reset because I 'might' like to use a different zoom at a different location. Entering and leaving houses are in the same location on the map. Even in game cutscenes in the same location forces a zoom reset (Gorion/Sarevok, Garrick/Silke, etc)
Why would the inside of a house in Beregost be different to outside of the house in Beregost. In some instances, the inside will be smaller than the outside, so why would I want it even smaller with a zoom reset. I want to be able to play the game at a zoom I'm comfortable with and to keep it at that zoom.
The fact that the Zoom Reset is being sold as a Feature everytime you enter a house really astounds me. Even more astounding is the developers and beta testers were okay with this. It cries of excuses as I really can't see this being sold as a feature:
New Enhanced 'Zoom Reset' Feature - Everytime you enter a house, the zoom resets. Everytime you leave, it goes back to how you had it. - Everytime you load a saved game, the zoom resets. - After every in game cutscene (eg. Gorion/Sarevok, Garrick/Silke, etc), the zoom resets.
This should have been picked up by the Beta testers well before the game shipped and urged the developers to have a zoom lock on it.
You can act confrontational about it if you want; I'm just telling you, that's how it's designed. If you don't like it, that's a different concern. I'm not defending it; I'm just clarifying that it's not a bug (i.e. it's not happening "by accident").
I'm the guy with the problem about scrolling. Thanks for IGN now i can show you video about it. Go here and see the first video, in the first 1-2 minute you will see the scrolling with screen tearing and jumping.
@FailedProduct Well, no, remember I said "most". Although also remember, the IGN guys are simultaneously recording video, which could be a contributing factor in the tearing (which I just saw, and if it's happening on your game I can see that being very irritating).
That said, the fact that I don't see tearing on my game (and a number of other people, I imagine, also don't) tells me that it could be something to do with your current set-up. That's not anything definite, but I believe that it has already been reported, so you're not alone, and they are looking at solutions.
Yes, it's major, but it's Intel's fault, not Beamdog's. The fact is, anyone using an Intel based graphics solution is out of luck with this game (and I find it HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that 'half' the market is Intel; they're dominant in PC, yes, but not graphcis!). They're not out of luck because Beamdog screwed up; they're out of luck because their video 'card' doesn't match the game's minimum requirements: 'OpenGL 2.0 compatible (Intel graphics chipsets are NOT supported)'. True, this originally read something like requiring a Geforce card of a certain generation (200, I think?) but that doesn't matter. The fact is, the much more 'modern' Intel HD 4000 graphics can't handle everything the older cards did. A PC user is responsible for knowing their own hardware and it's capabilities, and in this case that proved important.
Frankly, the failure to support OpenGL is a HUGE mistake on Intel's part; it's the open standard that is the only competitor for DirectX, which is a windows only standard. If you're targeting a multi-platform environment, openGL isn't an option, it's a necessity. So point all the fingers at them, because Beamdog literally didn't have a choice -- and even if they had, OpenGL is still a completely valid option. (The recent Doom and Quake games are both written in OpenGL IIRC, so you can't even complaint about it not being a 'mainstream' option)
The only problem with the Intel thing is that while it might not be 50% of the whole market, its well over 50% of the laptop market. One of the selling points of the game is the low hardware requirements. BG1 and BG2 both run just fine on old integrated Intel graphics, so there was a bit of an assumption that BGEE would be no different.
Its not really Beam dogs/Overhauls problem, but for folks with only a laptop, there is no other option.
You're asking them to base their game around people playing it on a laptop? And if your laptop only has the internal intel graphics chip and you're having problems with a game that was released a week ago... I'm not surprised at all actually.
The selling points of the game are... let me bring up the front page here:
-New adventures -3 new NPCs -400 improvements
Hmm... let's look at the page for the windows release; it adds:
-New PC voice sets -Support for widescreen resolutions -Multiplayer support between platforms
...nope, not seeing anything there about low hardware requirements. If people chose to believe that the requirements would be the same as the version that came out almost 15 years ago, that's on them.
The only problem with the Intel thing is that while it might not be 50% of the whole market, its well over 50% of the laptop market. One of the selling points of the game is the low hardware requirements. BG1 and BG2 both run just fine on old integrated Intel graphics, so there was a bit of an assumption that BGEE would be no different.
Its not really Beam dogs/Overhauls problem, but for folks with only a laptop, there is no other option.
Sorry, but if you get a laptop without a graphics card, you shouldn't expect to be doing gaming on it. I mean... just deal with it. Sucks to be you, sure, but... what exactly do you expect BeamDog to do? Wave a magic wand to make everyone work? Double their development time to write a DirectX version of the game to go along with a perfectly fine OpenGL version?
I did buy it. But when I buy something I want it to work. Trent and the guys sold something that wasn't ready for the market.
Could you imagine what the game looked like 2 months ago (original release)? Could you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if they delayed it to 2013?
OpenGL only in mind was a damn mistake in my opinion!
If the EE would have been more developed with the use of PC in the eye, there would have never been the option for OpenGL used in the first place.
Take a look at the most games on Windows Systems.... Are most of them OpenGL Only? No
What works perfect on Tablets does not work perfect on PC's.
It is of no relevance if the game would only run in the non-EE Form on that kind of machines with integrated Intel graphic, it is also not true to say that that kind of machines are not developed for gamers.
Games with DX DO mostly work too on that kind of machines with Intel Graphic inside.
Tablet use beside, a little bit more understanding of the differences between the mechanics on Tablets and Computers on the side of the Beamdog Devs would have been better, and i am sure, they too know about the problematic of that decision.
Comments
Just a bit of clarification: The GUI being rendered at lower-than-preferable resolution (and having enormous buttons) is due to the iPad version being part of design considerations. I'll agree that this may have been a mistake, if only because the platforms are so substantially different that it would be better to design them independently.
The code and engine problems, the incompatibilities with Intel integrated graphics cards (which really shouldn't be considered graphics cards, if you ask me, even if that's how they're advertised; they're more like processors that can also handle a bit of graphics, which isn't the same thing), these have more to do with issues that are still being figured out. The beta team can take a bit of responsibility for this, as we were focused more on tackling the bugs in the actual game itself, so when we hit an incompatibility, we just adjusted our system to make the game work. This was our mistake, not Beamdog's. To wit: if they don't know there's a problem, they can't fix it.
That said, they now know that the Intel chipset thing is a real issue, so they're working on fixing it. Yesterday's patch, which now allows the game to create a .dmp file with every crash (which you should send to beamdmp@gmail.com so I can forward it directly to Cameron), will make fixing those issues a lot simpler, and go a lot faster, which means that you'll be likely to see some solutions sooner.
Personally, I'm pleased with how the release went. Not because I like seeing people who can't install the game, but because there were so many more people who wanted the game than any of us predicted. And once these big issues are resolved, I think everyone will really enjoy the product.
This is not true. Today's tablets are more powerful than many computers that are still in service. What do you mean? Fair enough, I was perhaps too quick to pull out the "T" word.
Peace
What do i mean? to quote a post from more above:
Aosaw :
Just a bit of clarification: The GUI being rendered at lower-than-preferable resolution (and having enormous buttons) is due to the iPad version being part of design considerations. I'll agree that this may have been a mistake, if only because the platforms are so substantially different that it would be better to design them independently.
As i said.. partly a conversion of the Tablet Port
And I know that if they had worked on it longer, everyone would have been bitching about the second delay.
Some people are just impossible to please.
Try to unite all personalities to one.. would be boring
I won't speak about Android, where I suspect you're 100% right -- but iOS games don't do different screen sizes. Thats why so many games are 'better' on iPad than their ports on android; android has fragmentation, iOS doesn't. Yes, it's major, but it's Intel's fault, not Beamdog's. The fact is, anyone using an Intel based graphics solution is out of luck with this game (and I find it HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that 'half' the market is Intel; they're dominant in PC, yes, but not graphcis!). They're not out of luck because Beamdog screwed up; they're out of luck because their video 'card' doesn't match the game's minimum requirements: 'OpenGL 2.0 compatible (Intel graphics chipsets are NOT supported)'. True, this originally read something like requiring a Geforce card of a certain generation (200, I think?) but that doesn't matter. The fact is, the much more 'modern' Intel HD 4000 graphics can't handle everything the older cards did. A PC user is responsible for knowing their own hardware and it's capabilities, and in this case that proved important.
Frankly, the failure to support OpenGL is a HUGE mistake on Intel's part; it's the open standard that is the only competitor for DirectX, which is a windows only standard. If you're targeting a multi-platform environment, openGL isn't an option, it's a necessity. So point all the fingers at them, because Beamdog literally didn't have a choice -- and even if they had, OpenGL is still a completely valid option. (The recent Doom and Quake games are both written in OpenGL IIRC, so you can't even complaint about it not being a 'mainstream' option)
I'll admit I've only skimmed most of the thread but I hadn't seen this yet so I thought I'd add it.
From @TrentOster's twitter on 30 November:
Trent Oster @TrentOster
Plan is to submit iPad build and test fixes all weekend. Monday, if build is 100% ask for expedited review. #ThatsThePlan
https://twitter.com/TrentOster
That is a link that'll allow you to see his entire post history since launch. He might not have responded to you directly, but he has been talking a lot about bugs, the apple store, etc.
It's hard do tell from his tweets whats going on.
As to the app store, I don't know for certain. My bet is that it will be sent to apple for approval on Monday and they hope to ask for it to be expediated. What that means for how long it'll appear in the app store I can't say. I'm not familiar with apple and their store and don't know the timetables.
Herm, BG needs a magic 8ball item that we can ask questions to.
Since I have both I will buy it on the one who has the quickest release.
I have to seriously question what the Beta testers were doing all this time. How they can miss simple things like the Help button with the Question mark still saying Rest. The zoom reset. And various other things that stand out.
We spotted the Help button (honestly, that's essentially a typo, not a functional "bug), and the zoom reset isn't a bug either; it's a feature that you wish wasn't there (and there's a feature request to improve its functionality). Just clarifying those two points to avoid confusion.
Its not really Beam dogs/Overhauls problem, but for folks with only a laptop, there is no other option.
I didn't say it was a "great" feature, but that's partly how it was designed. A manual "reset zoom" button would be a great way to make that feature more useful, as well as a Graphics option to "Lock Zoom Level" (both of which have been posted in Feature Requests).
You seem to be grasping at straws. Nothing worse than making up excuses on the run as the excuses will expose flawed logic. So the game forces a reset because I 'might' like to use a different zoom at a different location. Entering and leaving houses are in the same location on the map. Even in game cutscenes in the same location forces a zoom reset (Gorion/Sarevok, Garrick/Silke, etc)
Why would the inside of a house in Beregost be different to outside of the house in Beregost. In some instances, the inside will be smaller than the outside, so why would I want it even smaller with a zoom reset. I want to be able to play the game at a zoom I'm comfortable with and to keep it at that zoom.
The fact that the Zoom Reset is being sold as a Feature everytime you enter a house really astounds me. Even more astounding is the developers and beta testers were okay with this. It cries of excuses as I really can't see this being sold as a feature:
New Enhanced 'Zoom Reset' Feature
- Everytime you enter a house, the zoom resets. Everytime you leave, it goes back to how you had it.
- Everytime you load a saved game, the zoom resets.
- After every in game cutscene (eg. Gorion/Sarevok, Garrick/Silke, etc), the zoom resets.
This should have been picked up by the Beta testers well before the game shipped and urged the developers to have a zoom lock on it.
Go here and see the first video, in the first 1-2 minute you will see the scrolling with screen tearing and jumping.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/12/01/baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition-review
Well, no, remember I said "most". Although also remember, the IGN guys are simultaneously recording video, which could be a contributing factor in the tearing (which I just saw, and if it's happening on your game I can see that being very irritating).
That said, the fact that I don't see tearing on my game (and a number of other people, I imagine, also don't) tells me that it could be something to do with your current set-up. That's not anything definite, but I believe that it has already been reported, so you're not alone, and they are looking at solutions.
You're asking them to base their game around people playing it on a laptop? And if your laptop only has the internal intel graphics chip and you're having problems with a game that was released a week ago... I'm not surprised at all actually.
The selling points of the game are... let me bring up the front page here:
-New adventures
-3 new NPCs
-400 improvements
Hmm... let's look at the page for the windows release; it adds:
-New PC voice sets
-Support for widescreen resolutions
-Multiplayer support between platforms
...nope, not seeing anything there about low hardware requirements. If people chose to believe that the requirements would be the same as the version that came out almost 15 years ago, that's on them.
If the EE would have been more developed with the use of PC in the eye, there would have never been the option for OpenGL used in the first place.
Take a look at the most games on Windows Systems.... Are most of them OpenGL Only? No
What works perfect on Tablets does not work perfect on PC's.
It is of no relevance if the game would only run in the non-EE Form on that kind of machines with integrated Intel graphic, it is also not true to say that that kind of machines are not developed for gamers.
Games with DX DO mostly work too on that kind of machines with Intel Graphic inside.
Tablet use beside, a little bit more understanding of the differences between the mechanics on Tablets and Computers on the side of the Beamdog Devs would have been better, and i am sure, they too know about the problematic of that decision.