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Do you like the new cinematic?

WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
edited November 2012 in Off-Topic
As far as I'm concerned the new intro has traits which are enjoyable, the art style is quite comical in a way and I think if it were used in the right functions (e.g. GUI, background, portraits), it would be a great 'asset' to the game. Ha, source artwork joke I am hilarious.

In fact I think the art is great and seemed to be quite let down by execution.

The issue is that, BGEE's intro is clearly rushed. The art style is attractive in the appropiate context, but not only does BGEE's intro recycle old sounds which don't match the video properly, but they cut out the most important line ("There are others, I can show you.").

They also remove the quote from the beginning. which is spine chilling epic goodness really.

The animation is very poorly executed. The first part where Sarevok plunges the unknown Bhaalspawn through the door of the Iron Throne is epic, but it's followed by stills with minor animation and is very underwhelming from there.

This intro reminds me of the lazy SH3 animations.



The way the Baldur's Gate logo phases into the screen is very cool, though.

Camera angles of the first intro allow you to feel the Bhaalspawn's hopelessness and pain. The way the camera shows you him through Sarevok's eyes, as he backs away to the iron rail. That gives you a sense of dread there.

The other thing is that the way Sarevok kills him does not allow you to feel the sympathy that you once have, because his death is quick and you aren't given time to hope that Sarevok lets go of his grip and lets the Bhaalspawn live. It's not dramatic or saddening in the slightest.

It's creepy really. Although the original was hugely more graphic, his new facial expressions are too morbid and don't portray his agony in a way that makes you regret his inevitable death.


(skip to 0:50)

Do you like the new cinematic? 126 votes

BG:1
61%
SeldarLavaDelVortelMERLANCEO_BruceMoonsongWardDrugardrawnacrolXzarStradlinPeccaMornmagorHooHor89Vintrastormmister_ennuiLemernisScofieldIlphalarVaylor 78 votes
BG1:EE
27%
Balquomch202lunarScotGaymerelminsterDeltaslayerFentonSvendrynFezwulfnemesisdarthchairQuartzFatalFlameguard27darrenkuoBrygard2012aerefrygtState_LemmingArakinSily 35 votes
I don't want to vote
10%
ConphantusmlneveseetaglocbivbiMoomintrollraywindMore86CrystarkTJ_HookerKenjiKhemrikharaRenulanMurrayConfederacy 13 votes
Syntia13TeflonProont
«1

Comments

  • SeldarSeldar Member Posts: 432
    BG:1
    BG1 Intro was/is more impressive than the BGEE.

    henscTeflonProont
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    BG:1
    @Seldar Definitely I agree. Personally I feel the original cinematic should be an option through config. Allow us to apply the old cinematic at our will.

    Instead of spending time making new cinematics they should of just upscaled the old ones. You can't tell me it's impossible to degrain the originals and just give it a bit of life. I'm sure it could of been done and it would of been a very good compromise to just leaving them the way they are.

    henscSyntia13mister_ennui
  • raywindraywind Member Posts: 289
    I don't want to vote
    i like both equally

    TeflonProont
  • HooHoo Member Posts: 128
    BG:1
    Original BG1's things are absolutely better than BGEE's things.

    hensc
  • VissiousVissious Member Posts: 53
    BG:1
    The first ten seconds are exceptional; that door-busting exit really grabbed me, but from thereon it slid down-hill. The perfectly-circular pool of blood was comical, not gripping. I was really looking forward to the new cinematics, but they've been a real let-down :(

    Syntia13Proont
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    edited November 2012
    BG:1
    @Drugar
    Drugar said:

    a ridiculous outfit for the knight

    Seriously, are you kidding? His 'outfit' is a convincing replica of a late 13th to mid 14th century knight. Maybe it looks out of place in a fantasy game, but what that knight's wearing is almost flawless in terms of historical context. His kit seemingly consists of:

    Late 13th C. great helm (fully enclosed).
    Horns (a tournament crest, odd that he'd be using them here).
    Mantle (now THAT's detail, mantling down the back is used in tournaments and the Crusades, which probably copied from the locals there to keep the sun off them).
    Ailettes (funny shoulder pads, those are used in tournaments briefly in the high Middle Ages).
    Maille haubergeon
    Tunic (may not be a tunic, looks thick and quilted so it might be an arming jack, which goes over the top of maille).
    Plate vambs and greaves.

    He is even wearing a quilted arming cap underneath his helmet. What epic detail. In modern medieval games they think a knight is just a person in maille with fancy hair.

    ARKdeEREHProont
  • ThomasMinkThomasMink Member Posts: 25
    BG:1
    What makes it ridiculous to me are the blue stripes on the horns of the helmet and the bright blue ailettes. Get rid of the stripes (at least this.. seriously, that's just horrid to look at) and tone down the ailettes and it would be perfect.

  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    edited November 2012
    BG:1
    @ThomasMink They do look a bit silly considering he isn't at a tournament. Not practical either frankly. If he were at a tournament he would fit right in though.

    Here's an image from the Codex Manesse with striped horns:

    image
    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz3tejeD0I1qzxr5oo1_1280.jpg

    Moomintroll
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    BG:1
    Ward said:

    @Drugar

    Drugar said:

    a ridiculous outfit for the knight

    Seriously, are you kidding? His 'outfit' is a convincing replica of a late 13th to mid 14th century knight. Maybe it looks out of place in a fantasy game, but what that knight's wearing is almost flawless in terms of historical context.
    Personally, I'm never a fan of the "it's historicly accurate" argument, considering we're talking about a different world than ours. Based on our history, sure, but just like I can't say "it happened in a movie based on a historical event so it has to have gone down like that", it's also illogical to say "the fantasy world is based on ours, so everything is obviously the same".

    That said, ridiculous is perhaps too strong a word for what I meant to say, you're right about that. The helmet with the happy blue striped horns were my main point of contention, coupled with the red shirt. He seemed a bit too cartoon coloured for a dark intro.

    vortican
  • FyreFyre Member Posts: 28
    BG:1
    I find that the enhanced edition had more of a feel of horror, and creepiness, as a masked man murders a random mook, for the sake of murder.

    While on the other hand, BG-1 really has that sense of dread that comes with the unknown. Really scary after your own fridge logic steps in, and you realize that is the same guy who kills your foster father.

    So, I would say the original for now.

    Proont
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    edited November 2012
    BG:1
    @Drugar I agree about the colours being too bright. You would find knights to be extremely colourful normally but, allowances do have to be made in order to meet the setting. The tunic is a bit odd looking in terms of accuracy to be fair and the horns and ailettes would NEVER be used in any practical setting except a tournament (where being really pretty and strutting around was the key).

    Fantasy is based on reality. The armour meeting real life standards does not distinguish the game's ability to feel like a fantasy game. Unless you think the armour should be like Final Fantasy, in which case you're no longer playing a medieval based fantasy game like Baldur's Gate and instead a game with glowing massive swords.

    The great thing about Baldur's Gate is we get a medieval based game that is a fantasy game but isn't really TOO fantasy to feel like an entirely unrelatable world. I don't enjoy PS:T because I can't relate to it, although most people enjoy it anyway. I like to be able to relate.

  • ginger_hammerginger_hammer Member Posts: 160
    BG:1
    I thought I was getting senile as I watched it thinking I remembered blood trickling into the logo. Just saw this thread and was like ahhhhh, they re-did it! More a question of why? I liked the original.

  • vorticanvortican Member Posts: 206
    I appreciate the work done by the artist on this entrance movie; it's very high-quality and I do see the direction in which it's going. It works for storytelling purposes. I also understand the difficulties in taking a 15 year-old animated cinematic and trying to bring it to life again. Perhaps it simply isn't possible.

    What really got me was the lack of the Nietzsche quote. GARGH! For anyone who's studied the origins of that line and it's implications, it's quite profound both in its existence and as it applies to this particular work. DAMN it sucks that it's missing.

    I'd like to see an option to restore the original cutscenes, if possible, just to have it.

    On the other hand, the cutscene (only other one I remember) of the orcs or gnolls or whatever they are strolling around later was really too cartoony and not my favorite. I'm interested to see what they've done with that but I'm not that far in the game yet.

    Proont
  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    BG:1
    I am trying myself to replace new movies. If anybody knows how, I would like help. I think I will need a .wbm converter, because that is what the game uses in the movies folder. However, I don't see the intro in there

  • Sese79Sese79 Member Posts: 478
    BG:1
    I already made a Feature Request about that with a new idea of mine here: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/7199/please-make-old-movies-available-again#latest
    Please check.

  • SornSorn Member Posts: 41
    BG:1
    I think my biggest peeve is that we gain no knowledge of Sarevok at all - we don't know that he was able to shove a man through an iron railing, nor that he has a plan... It seems merely out of place.
    Sure, the animation style is different. That's a matter of preference. But the curtailing of information? Sloppy.

    ARKdeEREHTeflonProont
  • FatalFatal Member Posts: 54
    BG1:EE
    While the bg1 intro seems M rated, the new BG:EE is gone PG rated

    ARKdeEREHTeflonProont
  • Sese79Sese79 Member Posts: 478
    BG:1
    Fatal said:

    While the bg1 intro seems M rated, the new BG:EE is gone PG rated

    Like the monsters. In BG:1 you had the original Points-of-Light world with monsters in it. Now with BG:EE you have a great park world with lost alone "monsters" who are frightening from the adventurers. :(
    Man, this game is worse day by day, as the players find all the "Enhancements. not advertised for a reason.

  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    @Sese79: Points-of-Light World? What? Never noticed it when playing BG...Nor noticed monsters being afraid of my party, except when they had a moral failure during a battle.

  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    BG:1
    I think what he means is the decreased amounts of enemies in the world.
    First screen outside of candlekeep usually had some packs of 4-6 Gibberlings, a group of 2 wolves, a troupe of 2-3 bears. Those appear to be gone, I haven't seen more than a single gibberling per encounter. This kind of dampens the threats of the wilderness, making it more a happy playground than a threatening area.

    Proont
  • TelemakusTelemakus Member Posts: 12
    BG:1
    Funny story: just showed my non gaming Gf these 2 back to back. She liked the original's graphics better. The "step pause step pause was annoying". Exact quote lol. I thought that was interesting, she's not someone who has much of an introduction to gaming graphics, so that's perhaps a pure perspective.

    Proont
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    BG1:EE
    I honestly dislike the original intro due to the foreshadowing of the Bhaalspawn plot.

    Especially when most of what it is hinting to happens late in this game and chiefly in Throne of Bhaal. I would have preferred a cold opening tbh, one where you literally get thrust into the game with no foreknowledge of the game's events. You begin the game as someone caught up in the midst of this massive unknown conspiracy, that I feel the Nietzsche quote and Sarevok dialogue works against that by prejudicing the player somewhat. It puts such a great deal of focus on Sarevok that you instantly know he is the final boss or a big player to the story. I just wonder what I would have thought about his ambush outside of Candlekeep if it weren't for the intro prepping my expectations.

    My preferred idea of an intro would be a bit of backstory provided by Gorion. Nothing deep and nothing related to the Bhaalspawn saga, but just his wish to flee with you away from Candlekeep. Just a very vague outline of where you are at the start of the game. Then canvas the grounds of Candlekeep ending outside of Winthrop's Inn where you begin your journey.

    I voted for the new intro just because the animation of the original is so dated and out of step when it comes to bulk of 2D visuals that actually make up the game. The EE version isn't perfect but it's on the right path visually though I'm disappointed that it is just emulating the original intro. The most successful part of the EE intro really is the storybook visual, I would have loved it if it was just a series of illustrations that canvas Gorion's last days. It really didn't need to try to aim for some action packed grand intro.

    I'm always going to support 2D visuals over CGI for a game like Baldur's Gate. There's a coherence in using 2D visuals, rather than interrupting the game with CGI cutscenes. But honestly I spend most of my time trying to skip through the cutscenes, I just see them as interrupting the real storytelling. I'm honestly surprised at the reaction towards the removal of the Nietzsche quote when considering it is such a minor part of the game, it's probably a good illustration of just how difficult the tightrope Overhaul is straddling.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,308
    edited December 2012
    BG:1
    I have to say, I do prefer the original cinematics overall. Although quite honestly, the game looks pretty much as I remember it. The Enhanced Edition's graphics improvements aren't really all that pronounced (the zoom is very neat, though--love that new feature). So the original movies aren't jarringly out of place with the enhanced version of the game. The quality of those original movies is clearly dated however.

    All that said, I actually kind of dig the graphic novel style of the new cinematics. They fit in well with the aura of refurbishment the game has gotten. They definitely contribute to the feeling of the gameplay experience getting refreshed and updated.

    I suspect that the new movies were rushed. And I can appreciate that in order to meet the release deadline many are now missing. But I hope that they will replace all of the old movies in the new style post-release. And make a couple of them more dynamic, with more motion (eg, Bandit Camp is too static. And no more head slap delivered with fiendish hyena cackle?).

    Finally, unless it's a non-starter technically I don't really see how it would hurt to offer both original and new cinematics. Maybe a new button could be added to the UI that provides the option to select original cinematics versus new? Unless that is truly just too much of a pain for Beamdog to do.

    Proont
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    BG1:EE
    I voted for BG:EE but idk.

    I really loved the style but as Lemernis pointed out they were just FAR too static.

    I agree the BG1 intro movie is far more morbid and disturbing. Chills.

    The problem is Overhaul is just too small of a company right now to do anything super awesome with such cinematics, which is a damn shame.

    Lemernis
  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    Drugar said:

    I think what he means is the decreased amounts of enemies in the world.
    First screen outside of candlekeep usually had some packs of 4-6 Gibberlings, a group of 2 wolves, a troupe of 2-3 bears. Those appear to be gone, I haven't seen more than a single gibberling per encounter. This kind of dampens the threats of the wilderness, making it more a happy playground than a threatening area.

    Oh, I see. Well, I only just started playing BG:EE, I'm still stuck in Candlekeep doing the classic quests. :p

    I'm going to take my time and re-live this epic game at my own pace. :)

    rexreg
  • PhoenixDownPhoenixDown Member Posts: 38
    BG1:EE
    Never paid too much attention to intro cinematic, but I prefer BG:EE one over the old one. Maybe it's because those things don't age well over time or maybe because I really love the art style of BG:EE opening? Can't really tell.
    I agree however that it's a bit lazy if you compare it with each other. Classic opening has much more going on and has much more effort put into it, but hey I bet BioWare had much larger budget too!

  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    @PhoenixDown: I think this might have been partially the reason for the iffy animation as well. Plus, Oster himself said that his team only consists of about 13 people right now...Compare that to big companies like Bethesda and the current Bioware (who is neatly screwing over its own games, btw), it makes you understand better. Well, at least, I do.

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