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So sad – management makes the team look bad…

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  • WakenbakeWakenbake Member Posts: 24
    edited December 2012
    Illydth said:

    @Wakenbake

    At least you responded to my complaints so let me respond to yours.

    "They should not have given a release date without being prepared to meet it."

    When did you want to know it was released then? After it was released? Should the company have simply posted "It'll be done when it gets done, keep checking back for an announcement that says 'it's released' and oh, by the way, please continue giving us your money and pre-ordering even though we won't tell you when things will be done!"

    Release dates are required in the software development industry and rarely are they ever met. MANAGEMENT can take one of two tracks on release dates.

    1) Release software that is buggy and unfinished to meet their release date.
    2) Miss the Release Date to release software that at least completes QA testing.

    Time, Money, Quality. Pick 2.

    Unfortunately the above isn't exactly correct. If Beamdog had never given a release date less people would have paid up front pre-orders, meaning you're really only looking at TIme/Quality, Pick 1, with Time being not forever since you have to pay developers something.

    You can't run a project without a deadline. Stakeholders must be given some line in the sand before they're willing to finance your project.

    "Maybe I'm not enough of a gamer, but I expect projects to be completed on time."

    In general that's a bad assumption. Just like battle plans, no project plan survives contact with project realities. It doesn't matter if you're in software design or car repair. Ever taken your car into the mechanic, had them estimate 2 hours of work and sat there for 3 or 4 hours? Did you go up and complain? I feel sorry for your Mechanic if you did.

    This statement seems to suggest that you don't understand or otherwise acknowledge that problems can occur and things can happen without a finger being able to be pointed. Simply living a normal human life should lend credence to the "stuff happens" adage. That doesn't mean someone was grossly incompetent or negligent.

    "The original release date was over two months ago, and the PC version still seems rushed. I can only play it on one PC due to the intel issues, and it does little more than is achievable through mods that have been available for years."

    I've commented on both of these points in other places. If your complaint is that the windows version is buggy, see my post entitled something like "Perhaps a larger Beta would have been Called For" in the windows forum. Please go complain about poor release management there, you might find a better reception.

    "Management decided on the release date, what content would be included, and the quantity and quality of the employees on the project. When things go wrong, it's not hard to figure out who is to blame."

    I probably should have just responded to this since it's the crux of your argument and the crux of what I disagree with.

    Management may have decided on a release date but it's a number drawn from a hat. There's an internal project plan that gets drawn up and padded and a date emerges...that doesn't make it a good date, it makes it a date. That number is more affected by financial decisions (how long can we develop this app given the revenue stream we have) and man power than any real "how long will this take" concept. I guarantee you that if you polled all of the developers and managers in the company you'd have gotten at least 50 different "release dates" that would be viable.

    As to what content is included and the quantity and quality of the employees on the project, that's all determined by budget, not time and is CERTAINLY not up to management's decision. What gets included is a function of development/design costs (and at $20 a copy with a couple thousand people you're not talking about being able to do rocket science here...not with the cost of development), not a MANAGEMENT DECISION.

    Get a grip, they've missed a deadline by 3 - 7 days. That's pretty damn good for a project that's been in development for 2 years. Hell, even missing the original deadline by 2 months is a pretty dern good scheduling/project management accomplishment on a development timeline that long.

    While I appreciate your perspective, I just disagree.

    This game has simply not lived up to my expectations or the expectations of much of the community. It was late, it was rushed, it didn't add enough to BG considering the time supposedly invested.

    Beamdog as a company has failed to deliver, and whatever has caused them to fail is their problem, and their fault. I don't care about the process and I don't need to be understanding. It is their job to get it out in time and make it work. I want a particular product at a particular price at a particular time and anything short of that is going to be a problem. That's capitalism. If you like it, buy it. I don't, so I won't.

    Unfortunately I pre-ordered the PC version so I'm stuck with that. I will play this game on my iPad, but I am not giving another cent to Beamdog unless they come out with something I think they should be rewarded for.

    You can totally question whether I am being reasonable or not. Probably not. I love the Infinity Engine games, and it really pisses me off to see them handed to such a sub-par developer.


    VittordeVitto
  • namelessonenamelessone Member Posts: 17
    Bytebrain said:

    I really don't understand how some people feel entitled to have a game right away, when they know absolutely nothing about the reasons for it.
    Why on earth not just sit back and relax while waiting. Go outside, get some exercise, hell, get some sex!
    It's all healthy for you, and it just have to be better being so angry at some people you don't even know, just because they failed to deliver on the exact time you command.

    Why should I give a flying one about whatever is going on in the company or whatever hassles they are encountering? I am not being paid for it, and I'm not the one making this game. It's not my business.

    If I'm asked to "go outside and do some exercise" by the company I am trying to do business with, I WILL go outside, do some exercise, and take my money somewhere else.

  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    edited December 2012

    Bytebrain said:

    I really don't understand how some people feel entitled to have a game right away, when they know absolutely nothing about the reasons for it.
    Why on earth not just sit back and relax while waiting. Go outside, get some exercise, hell, get some sex!
    It's all healthy for you, and it just have to be better being so angry at some people you don't even know, just because they failed to deliver on the exact time you command.

    Why should I give a flying one about whatever is going on in the company or whatever hassles they are encountering? I am not being paid for it, and I'm not the one making this game. It's not my business.

    If I'm asked to "go outside and do some exercise" by the company I am trying to do business with, I WILL go outside, do some exercise, and take my money somewhere else.
    Well, I'm not part of the company, so that advice is entirely from me, but a good one never the least.

    No, you don't have to give a flying whatever about what's going on within the compagny, but you sure have a responsibility to yourself to try and think straight and face the realities in life.
    One of these is that shit happens. In game development as well as in any other avenue of life, and sometimes the only thing you can do, is sit back and be patient.

    It doesn't make one iota of difference that you bitch about it, quite the contrary, because it's a waste of your time, and anyone spending time listening to it.

  • praguepridepraguepride Member Posts: 7
    edited December 2012
    Here's how to win this arguement.

    Do you know what's really sad? REALLY SAD?

    In Africa albino people are hunted down, butchered, and eaten because other people believe they can consume the "magic". That is sad.

    Now think about how much belly aching your giving for a computer game that was released 10 years ago. I hope you feel like the tool that you are.

    In the grand scheme of things, this should warrant mild disatisfaction at best. It shouldn't result in monolithic texts about how terrible it is that an indy developer is missing deadlines or has buggy software.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/16/tanzania-humanrights
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albinism
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/29/10000-albinos-in-hiding-a_n_372976.html
    http://www.npr.org/2012/11/30/165643518/tanzanias-albinos-face-constant-threat-of-attack

    Post edited by praguepride on
  • VittordeVittoVittordeVitto Member Posts: 225

    Here's how to win this arguement.

    Do you know what's really sad? REALLY SAD?

    In Africa albino people are hunted down, butchered, and eaten because other people believe they can consume the "magic". That is sad.

    Dude, u are sick... O.o

  • praguepridepraguepride Member Posts: 7
    I'm not the one eating people. Nor am I the one acting like a release date is a travesty on this nation. Perspective, get some.

    A golden rule before you rage post on the internets is to keep those poor african albinos in mind. It'll instantly increase your internet IQ by 50 points.

  • JudeauxJudeaux Member Posts: 9

    I'm not the one eating people. Nor am I the one acting like a release date is a travesty on this nation. Perspective, get some.

    A golden rule before you rage post on the internets is to keep those poor african albinos in mind. It'll instantly increase your internet IQ by 50 points.

    Bravo... The infamous people-die-in-Africa-argument, I thought that one has died out. But you know what? You are right! How can we complain, if our toy is late when these people are suffering. How can we? And how can a company be wasting ressources on a toy, when they could be programming donation websites to help these poor people? Who decided to program a game anyway, when they could save lifes? It is so sad, the whole management makes the development team look bad. Oh, I just came up with the same conclusion as when I started this thread...

    That is what happens, when you compare things that have nothing in common! Hope your overall IQ increased...

  • Church_of_SharChurch_of_Shar Member Posts: 4
    This thread makes less cents than a penny.
    Drop the argument folks, she'll be coming 'round the mountain when she comes.

    FuzzyPuffin
  • VintrastormVintrastorm Member Posts: 216
    You could always try to get a refund. Se the post by PhilipDaigle (sp?) about the current state of BGEE, IIRC.

  • praguepridepraguepride Member Posts: 7
    Judeaux said:


    Bravo... The infamous people-die-in-Africa-argument, I thought that one has died out.

    Correction, this is the "people-are-being-eaten-ALIVE-in-Africa-argument".

    Oh the irony of starving cannibals :D

This discussion has been closed.