Skald is a glorified buff bot. Basically, their entire advantage is that when you put them into "stand over there and do not under any circumstance stop singing!" they are actually very useful.
Blade actually has things to do while in combat, it's as simple as that really.
Edit: From a purely powergaming perspective however, Skald is probably technically "better"(since the improved song gives it a tool which is unique). A blade is basically a fighter/mage but worse at fighting than a fighter, and worse at casting spells than a mage(even considering the fact that a multi classed mage gets only half the experience).
Edit2: That being said, bards are way cooler than fighter/mages! So if you want to kill stuff in style, go with the blade. :P
Skalds are brilliant at buffing but boring to play. If you don't mind having your PC stand around singing all the time, go with that.
Blades have a much more active role in combat. While you can get a similar effect by playing a fighter/mage, Blades level faster and have access to Defensive Spin. And as previously mentioned, they are much cooler .
The one thing about a skald that concerns me somewhat is that they become completely pointless as a kit to have at a certain point. The one advantage to this kit is that wonderful song but there is a problem. Once they reach the level where they get to pick their high level abilities the Enhanced Bard Song will replace their skald song. The Enhanced Bard Song is the same as a skald's best song plus a little more. Here's the rub: Any bard kit can get this song at high levels; meaning skalds become completely pointless having lost the one thing that makes them unique and only having 1/4 normal pocket picking to show for it.
Here's what you do: Play Skald for BG:EE. When BGII:EE hits, use Shadowkeeper/NearInfinity/whatever to change him to a Blade. Because as @Tresset says, once you get Enhanced Bard Song Skald is literally pointless outside +1 THAC0 and +1 Damage, which is just pathetic.
*Shrugs* I dunno. Skald is pretty sweet for low-level play but high-level play with Skalds is underwhelming.
Of the two, I'd actually rather play a Skald, as they're more "Bard-like", I'd rather play a Fighter/Mage than a Blade.
Bards are in such an odd spot in Baldur's Gate. Not quite a fighter, not quite a mage, not anywhere near a thief.
I'm not a fan, but honestly ... 3rd edition improved upon the bard vastly.
They do at least get some quite cool magic items in BG2 and an entertaining stronghold, and their biggest plus is perhaps that, because they level so quickly, are likely to be the highest level spell-casters in the game, so great for spells that scale with level, like dispel magic, chromatic orb, magic missile etc.
Of the two, I'd actually rather play a Skald, as they're more "Bard-like", I'd rather play a Fighter/Mage than a Blade.
Bards are in such an odd spot in Baldur's Gate. Not quite a fighter, not quite a mage, not anywhere near a thief.
I'm not a fan, but honestly ... 3rd edition improved upon the bard vastly.
They do at least get some quite cool magic items in BG2 and an entertaining stronghold, and their biggest plus is perhaps that, because they level so quickly, are likely to be the highest level spell-casters in the game, so great for spells that scale with level, like dispel magic, chromatic orb, magic missile etc.
For your final point, one of the main reason bards are awesome in this manner is that skull trap never stops scaling with level(being one of the few spells to behave that way, another being flame arrow). With how fast bards level, a bard casted skull trap quickly becomes truly terrifying.
Edit: This fact is BG2 specific though, as in BG1 skull trap offers no real advantage over fireball other than it's damage type being magical rather than fire, since fireball only stops scaling at level 10(which no class can surpass with a 161k XP cap).
Of the two, I'd actually rather play a Skald, as they're more "Bard-like", I'd rather play a Fighter/Mage than a Blade.
Bards are in such an odd spot in Baldur's Gate. Not quite a fighter, not quite a mage, not anywhere near a thief.
I'm not a fan, but honestly ... 3rd edition improved upon the bard vastly.
They do at least get some quite cool magic items in BG2 and an entertaining stronghold, and their biggest plus is perhaps that, because they level so quickly, are likely to be the highest level spell-casters in the game, so great for spells that scale with level, like dispel magic, chromatic orb, magic missile etc.
For your final point, one of the main reason bards are awesome in this manner is that skull trap never stops scaling with level(being one of the few spells to behave that way, another being flame arrow). With how fast bards level, a bard casted skull trap quickly becomes truly terrifying.
Edit: This fact is BG2 specific though, as in BG1 skull trap offers no real advantage over fireball other than it's damage type being magical rather than fire, since fireball only stops scaling at level 10(which no class can surpass with a 161k XP cap).
True, though a Bard can get to Level 10 in BGEE, whilst a Mage can only get to level 9, and a fighter/mage or mage/thief only to level 7 mage, a Bard will also get to level 9 much faster than a mage
To be fair, the the biggest strength the blade has over a skald should be a base ability to all bards (and thieves). The ability to dual-wield without sucking. (See Two weapon suggestion over in the requests forum, for further info). Offensive spins is decent, due to the extra attack and kai benefit, but a passive +1 hit/damage is a lot better then a limited very limited use +2 hit/damage. It's also not supposed to stack with haste/IH, since the movement speed and extra attack are haste-based.
Skalds are probably better, but I'd never want to play one. At least, not until someone makes a mod where the music @Djimmy linked starts playing whenever the Skald plays.
Blades are hardly bards, and it's easy to make the point that a fighter/mage is better. But I still like playing blades... Defensive Spin plus defensive buffs makes them effective at tanking, Offensive Spin lets them jump into melee for a few good hits, and with mage spells on top of that, they're quite the versatile class.
For something different? Also the party buffs from the Skald's and the ability to cast spells at a high level are pretty good for the overall party strength, and the Bard-specific magic items, HLAs and stronghold would give a different experience, it's not always about power-gaming with the strongest class.
Personally I'd usually prefer a fighter/mage, but am considering playing a Skald in my next game for something different.
I'd love to actually play a 2h skald, but my problem is that you're stuck just running around singing. I wish they'd implement a duration increase for the song for blades, bards and skalds (I think Jester's is ok with themhaving to keep it going), so that the bard could actually do something else and still give the party their benefit.
I'd love to actually play a 2h skald, but my problem is that you're stuck just running around singing. I wish they'd implement a duration increase for the song for blades, bards and skalds (I think Jester's is ok with themhaving to keep it going), so that the bard could actually do something else and still give the party their benefit.
Yes, something like it lingering for a round, if they've been singing for sometime (3 rounds? 6?), so they can get off a spell or crossbow bolt in-between without the song letting-up
I've been spoiled by Rogue Rebalancing for far too long concerning the abilities of bards. Deciding which kit to play based on a silly broken HLA is good for a roll-player, but if you like to fancy yourself a role-player instead… well, you know what to do.
RR also fixes the two-weapon fighting proficiency for all thieves and bards to allow any rogue to reach three pips.
Hopefully by the onset of BG2:EE we'll see mods such as RR updated to work with both EE games.
RR is nice, but it doesn't change the fact that the actual amounts for the two weapon stuff are wrong. ** is supposed to be what 3 currently is..and ** is a little worse what * should be. Which means you get screwed twice. You have to place an extra point beyond what you should need to, and the 2 you spent prior were worth less then they should've been.
Other then that, I do like the changes since they brought stuff a lot closer to PnP....though still don't get why they made lingering song a HLA, when the bard songs are supposed to last 1 round/level anyway.
For something different? Also the party buffs from the Skald's and the ability to cast spells at a high level are pretty good for the overall party strength, and the Bard-specific magic items, HLAs and stronghold would give a different experience, it's not always about power-gaming with the strongest class.
Personally I'd usually prefer a fighter/mage, but am considering playing a Skald in my next game for something different.
Can't use magic because of armor - you probably have a Mage anyway. Can't do traps - you probably have a thief anyway. Can't fight like a fighter. About what you said for power gaming if its a challenge you want just ramp up the difficulty level.
I'm a big believer in having 1.5 arcane & divine casters in my party so a Bard usually fits in quite well.
Regarding @Pshlos remark: Can use armor (Elven chain) so your party Mage uses a robe whilst the Bard gets that, Can't do traps - sure* but having a character that gets free Pick Pockets allows your party Thief to focus on other skills, they may not have a Fighters THAC0 or damage but they can buff using arcane spells - spells such as Tensers Transformation make a huge difference to Bards due to their more rapid leveling. Come epic level they also gain Thief HLAs (*epic traps) & Epic Bard Song which means even when passive or withdrawn from combat they can make a fantastic contrabution.
Regarding @Pshlos remark: Can use armor (Elven chain) so your party Mage uses a robe whilst the Bard gets that,
Bards can also use the Shield amulet, which can be obtained early-on and quite cheaply and can be recharged. I also used to use this before the elven chain with evil fighter/mages, as the evil robes of archmagic can't be found until quite late in the game.
In BG2 there is also bard-specific armour (and other magic items, that are otherwise "wasted")
Can't do traps - sure* but having a character that gets free Pick Pockets allows your party Thief to focus on other skills, they may not have a Fighters THAC0 or damage but they can buff using arcane spells - spells such as Tensers Transformation make a huge difference to Bards due to their more rapid leveling. Come epic level they also gain Thief HLAs (*epic traps) & Epic Bard Song which means even when passive or withdrawn from combat they can make a fantastic contrabution.
Indeed, self-buffs are most of the point of bards and fighter/mages. I still think the fighter/mage is the stronger class, but bards (or at least blades and sklads) are not as bad as people seem to think
BTW, in BGEE would the Chesley Crusher halberd (+2 and +4 damage on top for +6 total) be a good choice for a bard? They can't use proper shields anyway (just buckers) and are limited to 1 APR, so don't lose much by using it. In BG2 there are some decent enough halberds too, and the reach of a halberd means there is potential to fight more safely from behind the first rank of melee classes
Joanna as a party NPC is just what BG2EE needs. sssAAAAADieeee~
Seriously though bardsong is dumb. The bonuses aren't worth having an entire sixth of your party standing around doing nothing but granting them. The blade is utterly lethal. Offensive spin makes you a wrecking ball. It's unfathomably better than Kai--instant cast with no animation, two and a half times as long-lasting, and a movement haste on top? I didn't check to see if it stacks with the Boots of Speed or normal Haste spells, but certainly before those things show up you'll be a beast.
The only bitch about the blade is that he doesn't really measure up to a fighter/mage/thief in terms of later-game power, especially if you're playing with a small party so your FMT levels up rapidly. Being able to chain invisibility and backstab and bring your own buffs and have real access to thief skills with a fighter's THAC0 is hard to beat.
I just started BG:EE as a Skald. I have no idea how good they are long-term, but I'm really enjoying it from an RP perspective. Mine is NE, and I love the image of her standing around singing dramatically while her evil deathcrew wrecks everything in sight.
One of the best things about the bard is that they level quicker. If you ever try playing with SCS II for a challenge the extra power to dispel magic will be a godsend in the early game, turning difficult fights into pushovers.
You can also use an inquisitor for that I guess, but a bard can memorize remove magic instead so you don't mess with your own spell protections so that's also an advantage.
Valchist
Member Posts: 44
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Blade actually has things to do while in combat, it's as simple as that really.
Edit: From a purely powergaming perspective however, Skald is probably technically "better"(since the improved song gives it a tool which is unique). A blade is basically a fighter/mage but worse at fighting than a fighter, and worse at casting spells than a mage(even considering the fact that a multi classed mage gets only half the experience).
Edit2: That being said, bards are way cooler than fighter/mages! So if you want to kill stuff in style, go with the blade. :P
Blades have a much more active role in combat. While you can get a similar effect by playing a fighter/mage, Blades level faster and have access to Defensive Spin. And as previously mentioned, they are much cooler
*Shrugs* I dunno. Skald is pretty sweet for low-level play but high-level play with Skalds is underwhelming.
I'm not a fan, but honestly ... 3rd edition improved upon the bard vastly.
Everything that sould be said has been said so im just adding my own opinion
Demi-God(or God) Skald singing
Hope that helps you choose.
Recommendation: play in HD and use nice pair of headset if you have. Also, see the lyrics here:
http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/wintersun/timei.html#2
Edit: This fact is BG2 specific though, as in BG1 skull trap offers no real advantage over fireball other than it's damage type being magical rather than fire, since fireball only stops scaling at level 10(which no class can surpass with a 161k XP cap).
Play as a Joanna Newsom instead
Blades are hardly bards, and it's easy to make the point that a fighter/mage is better. But I still like playing blades... Defensive Spin plus defensive buffs makes them effective at tanking, Offensive Spin lets them jump into melee for a few good hits, and with mage spells on top of that, they're quite the versatile class.
Personally I'd usually prefer a fighter/mage, but am considering playing a Skald in my next game for something different.
RR also fixes the two-weapon fighting proficiency for all thieves and bards to allow any rogue to reach three pips.
Hopefully by the onset of BG2:EE we'll see mods such as RR updated to work with both EE games.
/End thread
RR is nice, but it doesn't change the fact that the actual amounts for the two weapon stuff are wrong. ** is supposed to be what 3 currently is..and ** is a little worse what * should be. Which means you get screwed twice. You have to place an extra point beyond what you should need to, and the 2 you spent prior were worth less then they should've been.
Other then that, I do like the changes since they brought stuff a lot closer to PnP....though still don't get why they made lingering song a HLA, when the bard songs are supposed to last 1 round/level anyway.
Regarding @Pshlos remark: Can use armor (Elven chain) so your party Mage uses a robe whilst the Bard gets that, Can't do traps - sure* but having a character that gets free Pick Pockets allows your party Thief to focus on other skills, they may not have a Fighters THAC0 or damage but they can buff using arcane spells - spells such as Tensers Transformation make a huge difference to Bards due to their more rapid leveling. Come epic level they also gain Thief HLAs (*epic traps) & Epic Bard Song which means even when passive or withdrawn from combat they can make a fantastic contrabution.
Anyone got fire or acid for the kill?
In BG2 there is also bard-specific armour (and other magic items, that are otherwise "wasted") Indeed, self-buffs are most of the point of bards and fighter/mages. I still think the fighter/mage is the stronger class, but bards (or at least blades and sklads) are not as bad as people seem to think
Seriously though bardsong is dumb. The bonuses aren't worth having an entire sixth of your party standing around doing nothing but granting them. The blade is utterly lethal. Offensive spin makes you a wrecking ball. It's unfathomably better than Kai--instant cast with no animation, two and a half times as long-lasting, and a movement haste on top? I didn't check to see if it stacks with the Boots of Speed or normal Haste spells, but certainly before those things show up you'll be a beast.
The only bitch about the blade is that he doesn't really measure up to a fighter/mage/thief in terms of later-game power, especially if you're playing with a small party so your FMT levels up rapidly. Being able to chain invisibility and backstab and bring your own buffs and have real access to thief skills with a fighter's THAC0 is hard to beat.
But the blade's way fun, yeah.
You can also use an inquisitor for that I guess, but a bard can memorize remove magic instead so you don't mess with your own spell protections so that's also an advantage.