Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

What makes Baldur's Gate 2 so good?

2»

Comments

  • althoralthor Member Posts: 67
    Go to Watcher's keep or whatever it is if you have that. It is a nice dungeon crawl with plenty of puzzles and activity.

  • Mad_SweeneyMad_Sweeney Member Posts: 12
    @gunman It's funny you should mention that. PS:T was another game I started and didn't think much of. The beginning felt like one fed-ex quest after another, and Morte came off as a walking (erm, floating?) encyclopedia (I hate exposition in games, especially JRPGs, as I prefer to discover things myself). I gave it another chance a month or two later, and once I FINALLY reached Pharod, I couldn't get enough. As soon as the credits rolled, I wanted to play it again. And again. I've beaten it four times already, and it's just fantastic. However, I think it's a little overrated in being hailed as the greatest RPG ever, because I think it's more of an interactive novel than an actual *game*, but an enjoyable experience nonetheless. Where else has there been an RPG where the most explosive moments happen purely through dialogue?

    @silchas Sorry, whopping 15,000. Apparently, you think that's a paltry sum. How long does it take to reach that? Two hours? Three? Well that's three hours too many. Gaelyn and everyone else in Faerun still draw breath only because I killed Sarevok; he should do it for free. And yes, he does in fact say he can't give me the help he promised "just yet," makes some mention of a guild war, gives me magical items to allay my outrage (doesn't work, I'm still furious), and sends me off to do whatever.

    @SirFrancealot Well put.

    @Gallowglass I've beaten the original BG twice now. My first playthrough was vanilla, modless BG. And my second playthrough was BG:EE. I'd say it only took me 40-50 hours per playthrough. I've done and seen mostly everything that interested me, if not on the first playthrough than the second (I didn't bother to meet Drizzt my second time playing, for example). I'd say I've done just about everything except Durlag's Tower and Rasaad's storyline. According to HLTB.com, a first time run of BG2 is about fifty something hours, the fastest "main story only" run through is 35. I trust these numbers, because according to the site, NWN2 OC is about the same length, and thanks to the fact that Steam tells you how long you've spent with a game, my first (blind) run through of NWN2's OC was indeed 50 hours. If BG2 truly will take me 300+ hours, then I think I'll quit while I'm ahead. I could finish every game on my backlog twice in the time it would take me to finish that!

    @colonel_burger I will say that I think Irenicus makes for an excellent villain (I don't think they could've found a more perfect voice actor), it's just the fact that the game seemed to slow to a crawl after he disappeared with the Cowled Wizards. That image you posted made me laugh out loud. So much, that I actually considered giving BG2 another chance. I'm still a bit unsure. I started NWN1's OC two days ago, as I've been told it's pretty underrated.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    So, here's the thing. When I started this whole thing i.e. planning to play the entire BG trilogy, I decided I was going to roleplay it. I chose a human, and the class I felt makes the most sense storywise: a Bard (Skald). I don't care too much for "OMG so epic save the world kill the power-hungry villain/reawakened ancient evil/army of crit and status ailment immune enemies." I honestly didn't mind that my character wasn't going to get to do all of the "cool stuff" by the time I reached ToB, and I loved how humble I started; being a man who could do little more than sing a song and identify mysterious items made my departure from Candlekeep at the beginning of BG1 all the more real.

    I used the Guybrush Threepwood* sound set for my character, and I loved BG:EE because it allowed me to make my dream team of all joke characters: CHARNAME, Minsc, Xan, Garrick (later replaced by the stronger but just as eccentric Quayle), Imoen (not really a joke character, but whatever) and Neera.

    As for NPCs: I reach BG2, and while the soundset still makes for some unintentionally hilarious moments with the more serious characters, I miss Neera (BG2:EE? probably, but I can't wait that long), Quayle makes a cameo in 2 but isn't written as the smartass I remember (Jan's charming in his own way, but just him and Minsc aren't enough), I need a mage but hate Nalia and Aerie (I'd take Edwin but I think he eventually comes to blows with Minsc). Did I mention that I think Jaheira gets over her husband's death a little too soon? I definitely like the BG NPCs better than the BG2 NPCs. Though I might bring Aerie back if the sparks fly with her and Viconia and Jaheira like @SirFrancealot said.

    As for combat: Like I said, I'm trying to roleplay this game as much as possible. I play on core rules (it just ain't D&D without it). I don't do things like: rest until fully healed, cast buffs before facing an enemy my party can't see, use "tactics" like spamming cloudkill and fireball through fog, etc. I completed part of my Bard stronghold quest and was told by the director to wait a week before returning. I decided to do the Unseeing Eye quest, and after a cool riddle puzzle (I love stuff like that) I met my first mini-beholder. In terms of anti-beholder tactics, I read my options consisted of 1) having Jaheira summon a fire elemental to fight it or 2) having someone cast spell deflection and go nuts. My problem was, I didn't have any scrolls that did any of those things, Summon Lesser FIre Elemental was not the one fourth level spell I had Jaheira remember, and Nalia hadn't learned Minor Spell Deflection. Simply having Jaheira remember SLFE and rest violated my roleplayer's code of honor, so I was unable to progress. Stuff like this frustrates me. I'd like it if there were books on the monsters I might encounter in the world (like in the Witcher games) but whatever.

    I might give BG2 another go tomorrow, and if I do I'll give an update on my thoughts. But until then, goodnight y'all.

    *Yes, a swashbuckler would've made more sense if I were making my CHARNAME in Guybrush's image exactly, but I wasn't. And they're too badass to make for a good joke character in BG.

    By the way, have you guys seen this? I just saw this today, and it too made me reconsider my decision to stop playing.



    lunarcolonel_burgerMontresor_SP
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    If my memory serves me they give you leads to 2 major quests, each of which net around 10k.

    When I first played the game I had no idea where to go to make the money but I followed the lead I was given and no problem. And those quests are AWESOME.

    lunar
  • colonel_burgercolonel_burger Member Posts: 279
    @dreambled @zarely @mad_sweeney thanks lads, I have fulli sik mspaint skillz. :)

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,914
    Well, it seems the author of this thread should better play D3 or DA2.
    I just LOVE everything you find bad in BG2.
    And, by the way, comparing BG2 to Skyrim is a disgrace. Skyrim wasn't even in the womb when Irenicus was expelled from Suldanessellar.

    and_then_orGodKaiserHellFenghoang
  • AllbrotherAllbrother Member Posts: 227

    @silchas Sorry, whopping 15,000. Apparently, you think that's a paltry sum. How long does it take to reach that? Two hours? Three?

    About 30 minutes if you take your time

    And yes, he does in fact say he can't give me the help he promised "just yet," makes some mention of a guild war, gives me magical items to allay my outrage (doesn't work, I'm still furious), and sends me off to do whatever.

    That's not him

    And I'm sorry but I can't take seriously a person who can compare BG2 to Skyrim
    Clearly this isn't your cup of tea so you might as well drop it and avoid making further awkward comparisons

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,309
    @Mad_Sweeney I think the game will probably win you over if you keep playing it. BG2 offers a sort of balance to BG1 in it's higher level play, and darker atmosphere. That contrast enhances both games. It helps you appreciate both games for what they are, respectively. And I guess then too as a whole (i.e., playing the entire saga).

    On the one hand you arrive at ridiculously high levels and abilities by the end of the saga (Throne of Bhaal). But on the other hand, from a tactical standpoint, it provides a whole different set of challenges than BG1. And those high level battles are great fun. You're fighting a whole host of higher level enemies with more advanced/powerful tools and resources.

    In BG2 there is some increased interaction between NPCs, and you can "romance" some NPCs. (Personally, I find the 'romanaces' to be a little awkward and silly. But the increased banters and interjections by NPCs is definitely a plus.) On the other hand, by comparison, I think BG1 did a better job overall in giving us a fantastic selection of NPCs. But there again, the contrast between the two games makes us appreciate what it special about each of them.

    and_then_orcolonel_burger
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Regarding your "I killed Sarevok, shouldn't they be thankful?" angle... you're still fairly anonymous in Amn. It would be different if the game started you off in Baldur's Gate, obviously. In ToB, however, your reputation precedes you most places you go, which is fun.

    colonel_burger
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Oh, and regarding your role-players dilemma concerning Beholders: Do you have a capable scout in your party? Sneaking ahead while stealthed or magically invisible is something that I doubt violates any roleplaying laws, and it allows you to prepare for fights realistically. If your scout comes back with word that there's a beholder in the tunnel ahead, you're justified in swapping spells around and resting. Minsc may complain, but I'm sure your PC can calm him down.

    The_New_Romance
  • SirFrancealotSirFrancealot Member Posts: 56
    That video of BG2 remade in DA2 engine blew my MIND! Was so impressed I actually WANT to play though Irenicus' dungeon.

    That being said, those modders have bitten of WAY more than they can chew.... there is a staggering amount of content in BG2, and trying to rebuild it all in any form is the job of a well paid fully staffed development team. Not to mention the legal issues they are ignoring with using the voice and music assets from the original BG2.

    I wish them all the best, but this will end in tears.

  • Mad_SweeneyMad_Sweeney Member Posts: 12
    @bengoshi @Silchas Fair enough. Skyrim just happens to be the go-to game when talking about RPGs (I don't really consider the Elder Scrolls games to be RPGs, but you know...). What game would you prefer, if any? I haven't played any Dragon Age game long enough to have an opinion on either, PS:T is more of an interactive novel than a true RPG, I haven't played Arcanum or Fallout yet (though they're on my backlog), JRPGs are a different beast entirely, etc. And my mistake on the Gaelyn thing; as you can see I was too upset to bother committing any new NPC names to memory, but my situation reminded me of Axle in NWN2, who had you do one thing after the other for him before he'd finally do what you asked him five hours later.

    @Madhax I did do that yes (that's how I knew the next dungeon was filled with 'em). The problem was, I only knew what I needed to defeat them because I Googled it (yeah, I'm a scrub like that), and my party doesn't really know anything about Beholders (I suppose I could assume [party member x] has lived long enough/traveled far enough to know a Beholder's weakness...) but it doesn't really matter now, as I've since completed the Unseeing Eye quest. More specifically, I was forced to break my code.

  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    @Mad_Sweeney Well, you grew up in a library-fortress under the direct tutelage of several powerful mages and priests. Even if you didn't receive specific training in anti-beholder tactics, you should at least be aware of their existence and their preferred method of attack, ie. their gaze attacks. If your party didn't have access to a form of reflection, then a PC with an above-average intelligence or wisdom might suggest using summoned creatures as bait.

    I mean, at the start of BG2 you haven't tangled with any Liches yet, but that doesn't mean you can't figure out how to handle an undead mage, right? Avoiding meta-gaming doesn't necessarily mean approaching every fight like all you know how to handle are goblins and gnolls. To have made it as far as they have means your characters must be adept at improvisation, given the crazy situations they've found themselves in. I mean, did you approach every human on the return to Candlekeep in BG1 expecting that they WEREN'T doppelgangers?

    Minor tangent: If you haven't played it, you should try Witcher II. The game isn't for everyone, but you seem like you'd really enjoy their quest system. You'll receive vague instructions like "deal with the (insert monster name) menace in the woods", and then you'll research the monsters habits/weaknesses and develop specialist tools for defeating them.

  • Sarevok24Sarevok24 Member Posts: 15


    it suits his personality, doesn't it?

    colonel_burger
  • Mad_SweeneyMad_Sweeney Member Posts: 12
    edited December 2012
    @Madhax Yes, I mentioned the fact that the Witcher games had a bestiary in a previous post. I've played them both and adored them; I'm a big Witcher fan. I've even read the books, which is something I never do with other franchises. I've yet to touch a Forgotten Realms novel.

  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    @Mad_Sweeney Keep it that way, imo. They're mostly trash, especially the novelizations of the BG series. The Drizzt books were a favorite of mine when I was younger, but now they're only really sufficient as cheap escapism and lack substance for the most part.

    Of course, I'll probably get my ass burned for that last bit.

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376

    Try Torment...it's probably more up your alley...while the combat is basically the same as what BG offers with a few differences here and there, it's conversation and story elements blow BG out of the water...well..and you being outright immortal makes combat pretty bland to be honest...you can beat the game that way, sure, but it's incredibly boring and you likely won't even have scratched the surface of the game's actual story.

    I prefer BG1 myself, it's just a much more exciting game to me, since it's very wide open for exploration, and you don't have a railroad plot hanging over your head. I just feel the beginning of BG2 could've been handled better then it was...the rest is ok...though a lot more linear then BG1 was...and ToB is horribly linear. You get 2 sets of choices where you get to decide which place to go first, but there's not really any optional areas aside from Watcher's Keep which has no barring at all to the plot, and which you may have already completed during BG2. ToB was supposed to be a full 3rd game rather then a hastily thrown together expansion pack, but got hit with crippling time constraints.

    Torment is a fantastic game but I wouldn't crap on BG by stating the combat is basically the same. Torment is not viable, IMO, as a tactical/combat game. It is the ultimate game, IMO, for story content and actual main player content.

    On the broader note, BG2 is probably my favorite game ever so I definitely agree with those encouraging the original poster to stick with it. It is well worth your time. Enjoy the side quests that flesh out your party members but feel free to just drive the plot forward if that isn't your cup of tea. Either approach is very doable.

    The_Cheeseman
  • dreambleddreambled Member Posts: 48
    edited December 2012

    That video of BG2 remade in DA2 engine blew my MIND! Was so impressed I actually WANT to play though Irenicus' dungeon.

    That being said, those modders have bitten of WAY more than they can chew.... there is a staggering amount of content in BG2, and trying to rebuild it all in any form is the job of a well paid fully staffed development team. Not to mention the legal issues they are ignoring with using the voice and music assets from the original BG2.

    I wish them all the best, but this will end in tears.

    DAO engine actually. It is a mod (well, really it tells you what it is in the video). They are slowly trying to turn the BG2 story into a playable mod for Dragon Age Origins. As such, the beginning bit is already up for download on Dragon Age Nexus. As far as how long this will take and if someone will stop them ... well, nothing has been done so far in terms of legal issues that I know of. Though they are taking a long time to churn out the content, which is understandable as they have have mod stuff with the DAO toolset as well as create content from scratch. If anything it is an admirable effort on their part.

  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    The only bad thing I've got to say about BG2 is that eventually it ends when you win the game.

    badbromancecolonel_burger
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Allbrother
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    Bhaaldog said:

    Wilbur said:

    The only bad thing I've got to say about BG2 is that eventually it ends when you win the game.

    To end... like this?
    Just tried to say it was such a good game that I felt bad when it was finally over :)

  • gunmangunman Member Posts: 210

    @bengoshi @Silchas Fair enough. Skyrim just happens to be the go-to game when talking about RPGs (I don't really consider the Elder Scrolls games to be RPGs, but you know...). What game would you prefer, if any? I haven't played any Dragon Age game long enough to have an opinion on either, PS:T is more of an interactive novel than a true RPG, I haven't played Arcanum or Fallout yet (though they're on my backlog), JRPGs are a different beast entirely, etc.

    It's unfortunate that Skyrim is your RPG of reference. It appears you didn't had much of the golden age of cRPGs (90s and early 2000). I suppose you are younger (I'm 34) and you may have a problem to consider those games, with 2D graphics only (with the apparition with full 3D, games started the decline IMO).

    I would recommend you the following: Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Arcanum, Ultima VII, Ultima VIII. All are light years superior to Skyrim or anything from the last decade.

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    It's probably heretical to say, but I actually prefer the low-level action in Baldur's gate 1, although I love BG2 as well, and the NPC interaction is definitely better in that.

  • ReadingRamboReadingRambo Member Posts: 598
    Did u mean serpent isle? Ultima 8 was really really bad IMO. Much of the entire ultima series ( barring the last two travesties) revolved around having your pals around. I hated not having a party, not to mention the jumping puzzles.

  • Mad_SweeneyMad_Sweeney Member Posts: 12
    @gunman I'll admit I haven't played many of the classic cRPGs. My hatred of Skyrim is infinite; it's my game of reference only because it's easy for me to remember what I disliked about it (and there was plenty to dislike).

Sign In or Register to comment.