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Which Dungeons and Dragons rule set do you prefer?

24

Comments

  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition

    Give me back the great TSR.

    Before Lorraine Williams. And with Gary Gygax back as a vampire or similar unholy creature of the night.

    Wandering_Minstrel
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I like the charm of AD&D 2e, but the customization potential of Pathfinder.

    I do think THAC0 was a system that sorely needed to be reexamined (in terms of how it was calculated), but I enjoy the tables and the fact that every class has a different experience progression. That said, I haven't found a better system for realizing character concepts than Pathfinder (it's more modular than 3.5e, has all the customization with feats and archetypes that 3.5e and AD&D had combined, and is generally more "fun" to play for me).

    I did, however, enjoy what little I played of D&D Next when I tested its beta several months ago. I think there's some good potential there.

    RiolathelSily
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,603
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    The only way to go with the great, Mr. Gygax.
    Chow said:

    Give me back the great TSR.

    Before Lorraine Williams. And with Gary Gygax back as a vampire or similar unholy creature of the night.

  • hammernanvilhammernanvil Member Posts: 98
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition

    Most balanced, most fair, most linear, most organized.

    Nostalgia effect be damned.


    I downloaded the rulebook for 4e, its aweful shit, give me medieval tolkien anyday over over exaggerated fantasy crap they have these days.

    RiolathelSily
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    Aosaw said:

    I do think THAC0 was a system that sorely needed to be reexamined (in terms of how it was calculated).

    THAC0 really is severely overestimated as a game-stopping clusterfiddle. It's really rather simple: just flip a variable around. May be a bit hard to wrap your mind around the subject at first, but becomes second nature in like five minutes.

    I do agree that it's pretty much pointless to do it that way, though, and there was no reason to do it the normal way like Base Attack Bonus later does.

  • valkyvalky Member Posts: 386
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    lol~5th selection..nuff said

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    2e. Reasonable classes that really differ from each other, and a reasonable number of books that didn't keep introducing new feats, new powers, new prestige classes, new races, yadda yadda... and 4e is a game I don't recognize as AD&D or even D&D. It's a pen and paper MMO optimized around combat, which is only a small part of what "Roleplaying" is supposed to be about.

    Riolathel
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,603
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    4E? What's that? ;)

    RiolathelSily
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,431
    I am a UNIX user, can recite the GPL licensing agreement by heart and therefore prefer OSRIC.
    Chow said:

    Give me back the great TSR.

    Before Lorraine Williams. And with Gary Gygax back as a vampire or similar unholy creature of the night.
    An Arch-Lich? Everybody, check your 2nd Edition monster books for those.

  • PlasticGolemPlasticGolem Member Posts: 98
    Dungeons & Dragons
    Aosaw said:

    I do think THAC0 was a system that sorely needed to be reexamined (in terms of how it was calculated)

    THAC0 was never really a system so much as it was a shorthand way to describe an entire row in a table using a single value. Originally, you took the table for your character's class and cross-referenced your level with the target's armor class to get the number you needed. You could copy the entire row from AC 9 (or 10) to minus whatever for your character, or you could just jot down the number you needed to hit AC 0, and then add your target's AC to that number to get the number you needed (except for very low ACs). THAC0 first appeared as a number in a monster's stat block in order to prevent the DM from having to flip to the monster attack matrix during combat, and only later became a game concept in its own right.

    Designing a game from scratch, it would be a pretty silly and cumbersome mechanic to use, but as an evolution of attack matrixes, it was a convenient way to represent a lot of information in a small space, even if it added a small mental overhead to each attack roll calculation.

  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,603
    edited January 2013
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    Yes THAC0 is such a nasty thing. Can't very well involve mathematics in a game can we?

    I had a problem with it but I adopted and overcame that minor inconvenience on my fantasy immersion.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    Chow said:


    THAC0 really is severely overestimated as a game-stopping clusterfiddle. It's really rather simple: just flip a variable around. May be a bit hard to wrap your mind around the subject at first, but becomes second nature in like five minutes.

    I agree that Thac0 really is not that hard to use. It just has a little learning curve, but after a few game sessions most players catch on pretty quick.

    Its like my work; I'm an air traffic controller and work in a tower that overlooks it's airport to the south. This is opposite of most towers. We have a radar display, that like most maps, is oriented with North straight up. Well, when you look south at the field, and then correlate what you're seeing with the scope, you have to flip everything around to make sense of it. Most trainees need a couple weeks to get the hang of it, experienced controllers catch on a little quicker. Pretty soon you don't even think about it, you just do it.
    I guess that's how Thac0 is. It looks backwards at first; but for most players, they catch on quickly, and its never a problem after a game session or two.

  • LifatLifat Member Posts: 353
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    THAC0 wasn't a huge problem... And I see @PlasticGolem wrote why it was implemented but you do have to agree that BAB was so much more intuitive. And most people reference THAC0 because that rule was the easiest to remember. But 2nd had a LOT of counter-intuitive rules like THAC0. Saving throws is but one more example. Each of these rules in itself is not a big deal but it adds up. 3rd was just so much more intuitive.
    2nd was the worst rules set (not counting 1st because I never played it) there was in d&d. Was it the worst system? Probably not because it had amazing flavor.

  • KankKank Member Posts: 38
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    @Lifat

    It seems clunky now, but it really was one of the best back in the day. I played some VERY clunky systems around the same time (Elf Quest comes to mind). I still prefer it to 3e and 4e.

    Of course, my favorite system is White Wolf's d10 system.

  • LifatLifat Member Posts: 353
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    I didn't branch out to a lot of systems back when it was 2nd so I had nothing to compare it to. But the fact that it was good back in the day doesn't make it a better rules system.

    Edition and rules system are entirely different things in my world. You can have the greatest rules system and still be the worst edition (4th comes to mind honestly). You can also have the worst rules set and still be a great edition (2nd comes to mind).

    Which edition is best is highly subjective and I suspect a bit dependent on what you played the most and/or first. I played second for about 18 months I think before 3rd came out and I've been playing 3rd/3.5/3.P ever since so naturally I like those editions the best.

  • KankKank Member Posts: 38
    edited January 2013
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    I could never get into 4e. It plays more like World of Warcraft than the World of Warcraft pen and paper game. Things like tank/dps really should not be in pen and paper games.

    Then again, I've always viewed P&P as interactive stories more than video games with dice. That's just me, though. Different strokes.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    2e AD&D is what I know, and I prefer it to 3e (and 3.5e) which is the only other system I'm familiar with.

  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,804
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    Damn, I always forget (after I did find out only recently) it's the 1st Edition that got the nostalgia for me. Wrong vote! I'm so used to 2nd Edition talk nowadays from playing Baldur's Gate, but it's the 1st Edition (with Unearthed Arcana) that carries the nostalgia feeling of my youth and playing my first ever AD&D character Eriodal, an elven Fighter Mage with a name I just made up, but love to this day (taking the same PnP character through SOA now).

  • LMTR14LMTR14 Member Posts: 165
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    3.5 is D&D. D&D is 3.5.

    Sily
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    LMTR14 said:

    3.5 is D&D. D&D is 3.5.

    But it's not AD&D.

    Sily
  • jcdenton11jcdenton11 Member Posts: 20
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    Third for me, like almost everything about the system except for those thrice damned ECLs. 2nd is my second choice, and fourth is not to my liking. I never played using the original set.

  • DarksheerDarksheer Member Posts: 84
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    D&D 3.x edition has been my favourite PnP system since it was created. I recently bought some Pathfinder books and I've found it to be a fine successor for the 3.x line. I think 4th edition was a horrible mistake by WotC as was the spellplague in FR, but I'm having some hope in that fifth edition will be something worth trying. Not a huge fan of AD&D 2nd even though it works splendidly in BG series.

    Sily
  • revanbhrevanbh Member Posts: 38
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    I am partial to 3.5 edition, namely because it's the first one I delved into thoroughly - pen & paper style. Love the character diversity of that ruleset especially. That's not to say I don't like AD&D 2nd edition. Best settings, stories and campaigns there, but sparse when it comes to class choice. I even grew to like THAC0 and all the other illogical stats. Mixing 2nd and 3rd makes the best of all rulesets.

    Can't comment on the 1st edition or pathfinder. Haven't tried them. 4th is just plain wrong, in terms of the campaign settings and rules.

    DarksheerSily
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    edited January 2013
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition

    Damn, I always forget (after I did find out only recently) it's the 1st Edition that got the nostalgia for me. Wrong vote! I'm so used to 2nd Edition talk nowadays from playing Baldur's Gate, but it's the 1st Edition (with Unearthed Arcana) that carries the nostalgia feeling of my youth and playing my first ever AD&D character Eriodal, an elven Fighter Mage with a name I just made up, but love to this day (taking the same PnP character through SOA now).

    Yeah, no doubt 1E was most formative for me. That's what I played all through high school and college, it's when my gaming groups were largest, and it generates the most nostalgia.
    But I always saw 2E as the needed clean up or re-edit. More like a 1.5 in some ways. It fixed a lot of the glaring problems of 1E without changing what was important (to me).
    I do think the bottom line will always be what you're used to, as any of the systems are functional. I also suspect the 2E vs 3E divide is mainly a function of age. Us old farts will always prefer the more classic systems (1E, 2E or BECMI) while young pups will prefer 3E or later. Most of the younger players I've had in my own game had never gamed at all, and they all caught on plenty fast. Those with more recent gaming experience have always had the good courtesy not to complain about my rules set; but then, I never gave them a chance, I use my own modified 2E, deal with it.

    Edwin
  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    edited January 2013
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    I love the style of AD&D 2E, but 3E just gives you so much more freedom and clarity. It has a lot of drawbacks as well, mainly that it got totally out of hand, but I think the basic ideas were really, really good. It's a little unfortunate that they didn't try a "fresh start" on those ideas in 4E, but instead threw a lot over board. I still like 4E, though. It got some things right that weren't good before, and it made some mistakes - just like every edition before.

    I believe D&D has to evolve, even if some of the evolution leads into dead ends and chaos. I'm looking forward a lot to what they come up with for 5E/Next.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition


    I believe D&D has to evolve, even if some of the evolution leads into dead ends and chaos. I'm looking forward a lot to what they come up with for 5E/Next.

    I think D&D needs to "evolve" only for marketing reasons. WotC needs to keep creating new rules, otherwise, once we have all the books we need, sales will stop like they did for TSR. I have bought and read the players handbook for each edition, but otherwise haven't spent a penny on other books or supplements since TSR went away. I'm still an avid gamer, but for WotC, I'm a lousy customer.

  • ThorssonThorsson Member Posts: 187
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    @atcDave Sorry to rain on your theory, but here's one old fart that prefers 3.5 to earlier versions, as a gaming system.

    Silyrevanbh
  • PlasticGolemPlasticGolem Member Posts: 98
    Dungeons & Dragons
    There is a quote attributed to Gary Gygax to the effect of: don't ever admit to the players that they don't really need rules. This is probably no longer true of D&D, since it has become more of a strategic tabletop game than a classic role playing game, but a PnP role-playing game only really needs a handful of basic rules to provide a framework for the way that things are adjudicated, and the rest can be improvised by the GM or negotiated by the group. "Rulings, not rules."

    The other thing a game needs is a good setting, and these have been getting progressively more awful in the D&D world. The original published worlds (Greyhawk, 1st Edition Forgotten Realms) were decent, but they worked because they shipped as bare bones sketches that you were supposed to fill in with details. Later worlds were more detailed, but also seemed pretty lifeless, pastiche and crammed with so much generic stuff. The game rules themselves also promote this kind of thing. Rules that let you create a hafling paladin/wizard may offer players flexibility to indulge their personal fantasies, but they also strip haflings, paladins and wizards of any unique character they may have had, detach them from any sort of context, and turn them into simple features in a character build.

    Worlds that try to accommodate the fantasies of everyone end up being pretty bland. The most interesting game world I've seen lately is Dunwall from Dishonored. It's a first-person action/stealth game, but there is more care and originality in that world that anything I've seen in an RPG in a while.

    atcDaverevanbhThe_New_Romance
  • ToofyToofy Member Posts: 36
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    I voted 3rd edition, specifically 3.5 since it cleaned up the classes to make some of them more useful (RANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) but I AM looking forward to the AD&D 2E deluxe release and will buy them when they come out and run a game...cause I love Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale and I did play a Dark Sun campaign and it was boat loads of fun.

    Sily
  • clanquiclanqui Member Posts: 4
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st Edition
    First, exactly because it was clunky. It was a game rather than a rules system. And it was a huge improvement from OD&D. I didn't feel like 2nd fixed any of the actual serious issues with the rules, but it lost a little bit of the quirkiness that I love in 1st.

    3.5 for the best rules system (third with fixes).

    I picked up 4th to run a game for my nephew, and wow was I underwhelmed. Or should that be WOW.

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