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Which Dungeons and Dragons rule set do you prefer?

13

Comments

  • RannRann Member Posts: 167
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    3.5, definitely -- I liked the mix/match of classes.

  • EdwinEdwin Member Posts: 480
    edited January 2013
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st Edition
    With just over 100 votes in it is much as I expected, with AD&D 2nd edition and D&D 3rd edition running a very close race.

    I started a thread so those who remember the beginning can have a laugh and those who have recently joined the game can see the good, the bad, and the ugly of early D&D:

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/13878/old-school-dd

  • Allen63Allen63 Member Posts: 53
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    If not 3'd, then 2'd.

    I definitely do not like "well balanced" rules/procedures that make all choices "equally viable".

    To have meaning, a choice must have a possibility of being a "good choice" or "bad choice".

    Along similar lines, I don't like games that "level enemies" to match my PC level. One should have the opportunity to make a "bad choice" and die at the hands of a foe that is currently unbeatable. By the same token, with "excellent PC choices" and a "power player" approach, my PC could eventually become unbeatable.

    EdwinRiolathelrevanbh
  • TomeTome Member Posts: 466
    I like 2e more in general, but I enjoy Prestige Classes and the wide variety of classes that 3.5 offers. Draw for me.

  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,603
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    One of the things I disagree with AD&D and that's race restrictions on classes. Why can't a halfling be a paladin to their god? Paladins are essentially holy warriors. Or why can't a gnome be a druid? I recall one of the gnome gods has a class of druid as one of his classes.

    The_New_Romance
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition

    One of the things I disagree with AD&D and that's race restrictions on classes. Why can't a halfling be a paladin to their god? Paladins are essentially holy warriors. Or why can't a gnome be a druid? I recall one of the gnome gods has a class of druid as one of his classes.

    That's something I've seen "fixed" so many times by house rules in different games. I do agree that the main issue should be about serving a lawful-good warrior deity. I actually played a half-elven paladin for many years, and I've seen other such exceptions in many games. But of course, the computer game will use the core rules and not allow it. It can always be fixed via Shadow Keeper for BG!

  • WendschlagWendschlag Member Posts: 33
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    I liked Advanced second edition. After that the seemingly endless changes got under my skin.

  • hairyscotsman2hairyscotsman2 Member Posts: 2
    Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition
    It's a tragedy that the edition most suited to a computer game implementation, (4e) doesn't get a computer game. Thanks again Atari

  • hairyscotsman2hairyscotsman2 Member Posts: 2
    Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition
    I've played DnD off and on since 1984. 4th edition is the best so far by a long way (I loved what the Book of 9 Swords did for weapon classes in 3rd and was thrilled to see it form a strong basis for 4th).
    Looking forward to 13th Age far more than Next at the moment (we're using some of it for our current 4th edition game)

  • vekkthvekkth Member Posts: 25
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    3.5 for the purpose of gaming mechanics, 2nd for the aesthetics. I still think that all core books were extremely well illustrated, and overall tone was darker, more mature then 3rd where they really made it more "pop" trying to appeal to masses.
    Combine artistic approach of ADnD 2nd with mechanics of 3.5 and I say you get a perfect fantasy PnP game.
    Shadowrun, on the other hand...

  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,431
    I am a UNIX user, can recite the GPL licensing agreement by heart and therefore prefer OSRIC.
    vekkth said:

    3.5 for the purpose of gaming mechanics, 2nd for the aesthetics. I still think that all core books were extremely well illustrated, and overall tone was darker, more mature then 3rd where they really made it more "pop" trying to appeal to masses.
    Combine artistic approach of ADnD 2nd with mechanics of 3.5 and I say you get a perfect fantasy PnP game.
    Shadowrun, on the other hand...

    v3.5 books with DiTerlizzi artwork. <3

  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    Hey, where the heck is Pathfinder?! ... I love me some Ranger in Pathfinder ...

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,420
    Dungeons & Dragons
    * adjusts onion on belt

    What's wrong with Elf as a class?

    Poll choice not at all serious

  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    edited January 2013
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    @atcDave I agree with you. One reason for my presumed "need for evolution" is definitely economic reasons. And I believe we really can't blame WotC or TSR or whomever for that, because otherwise we'd have no D&D at all since everybody would've already bought the core rules and a few interesting supplements decades ago, and the brand would long be out of business. I'd be okay if WotC were just to reprint all the old stuff periodically, so that everyone could pick and choose, but of course the target group is way too small for this.

    I'm sure you've heard that before, though. I still believe that progress or evolution is necessary for other reasons as well, namely to improve on the game. Apparently, WotC aren't too good at that, as a lot of the old guard don't like many changes and I'd agree that they have gone overboard with changing quite a few times. However I'm of the opinion that just as with, let's say, successful university textbooks, there need to be revisions. Otherwise we'd still be stuck with "Halflings can't be wizards", exceptional Strength and arcane saving throws (all observable in Baldur's Gate), and I really wouldn't like that. The core of the game maybe shouldn't have been touched as heavily as it has, but I feel there were and still are a lot of rough edges that deserve polishing.

    That being said, I agree that D&D could use a little "cutting back" on the rules, to bring it closer to the more freeform days of BECMI and 1E/2E. I don't like the above-mentioned "strategic boardgame" style that has been wrought upon the game. Of course nobody is forced to play it that way, to metagame, buy splatbooks by the dozen, char-op and whatnot, but I believe it would be easier for everyone (especially the DMs) if the rulebooks didn't come with too finely detailed rules. It would encourage actual roleplaying. Currently, D&D is too much about the mechanics and too little about the roleplaying itself.

  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,431
    I am a UNIX user, can recite the GPL licensing agreement by heart and therefore prefer OSRIC.
    CamDawg said:

    * adjusts onion on belt

    What's wrong with Elf as a class?

    Poll choice not at all serious

    Absolutely nothing at all. <3

  • MedullaOblongataMedullaOblongata Member Posts: 434
    Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition
    IMHO, 4th ironed out a lot of issues and made the game much less of a hassle to run and play. I've been playing since 1999, started with 2nd, and played 3rd, 3.5, and a slew of other game systems before I got to 4th. We now spend more time on the story, and less time debating over the rules :)

  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,804
    edited January 2013
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    atcDave said:

    But I always saw 2E as the needed clean up or re-edit. More like a 1.5 in some ways. It fixed a lot of the glaring problems of 1E without changing what was important (to me).

    For my insight, what are the mayor changes made by 2nd Edition? With a gap of some 2 decades between my playing AD&D 1st Edition as a teenager and playing BG for the first time when I was nearing 40, the memory from back then is not so exact, that I saw any difference. Could you refreshen my memory?

  • EidolonEidolon Member Posts: 99
    edited January 2013
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition

    Most balanced, most fair, most linear, most organized.

    Nostalgia effect be damned.

    100% agree. I sometimes wonder if the love the older editions get and hate 4th edition gets is due to the actual merits of the systems or just nostalgia goggles.

    My only real problem with 4th edition is that there are really just four classes (Striker, Defender, Controller, and Leader) with the official classes just being minor variations on those archetypes with different flavor text. But that's the cost of classes that are all intuitive, fun, and balanced.

    While I agree somewhat with you, and I'm currently DMing a 4e game, Clerics in 4e are hardly fun, intuitive and balanced. They're horrible and boring. The whole healing surge thing is terrible from a design point of view and one of my major gripes with 4e.

    3rd Edition was definitely the best incarnation of D&D. 4e is great if you are a DM and moster stat blocks are so much better than anything in the past. However some very idiotic game mechanics drag down the 4th edition. There is also very little sense of danger in 4e due to very high amounts of hitpoints already at low level and hitting 0 not even being the end of your character.

  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    If I have to choose one then it's definitely 2nd edition.

  • HowieHowie Member Posts: 136
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    WotC always has good core books, then screw up everything with supplements. 5e is going to be no different.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition

    atcDave said:

    But I always saw 2E as the needed clean up or re-edit. More like a 1.5 in some ways. It fixed a lot of the glaring problems of 1E without changing what was important (to me).

    For my insight, what are the mayor changes made by 2nd Edition? With a gap of some 2 decades between my playing AD&D 1st Edition as a teenager and playing BG for the first time when I was nearing 40, the memory from back then is not so exact, that I saw any difference. Could you refreshen my memory?

    I think it was a lot of little things, like putting Paladins and Rangers on the same experience table and making Rangers more like other warriors. I liked the presentation of other specialty mages (not limited just to illusionists), I liked a very functional Bard class (awesome utility character. I admit I only played one bard for more than a couple game sessions, but we often had one in our party after 2E came out. They were especially popular with my friends who were better role players and less power gamer than I). I also liked the proficiency and non-weapon proficiency systems (NWPs added a lot of character without loading down combat or game mechanics).

    But by far my favorite 2E refinement was clerical spheres of influence and specialty priests. In fact, I was so inspired by that, I created over 30 specialty priest-hoods for each of the deities used in my setting (Greek mythology influenced) and did away with generic clerics entirely. Each of those 30 priest-hoods was practically a character class in its own right; the major and minor spheres of influence for their deity determined exactly what spells were available to them. Each priesthood also had its own ability and alignment requirements, and it's own weapon and armor restrictions.
    No doubt it created some unusual aspects to my game; like clerics of Apollo wearing chain mail armor and using short bows, clerics of Athena in plate armor with swords, clerics of Hermes with extra thief-like skills, and clerics of Ares freely using poisoned blades. But I loved that those rules were so inspiring and liberating to me.

    I do feel the loss some in BG. Like there's really no way for me to recreate that favored cleric character of mine who was so dangerous with a bow (although I have used mods to the original game that lift all weapon restrictions, I will likely eventually do that to EE). But I still appreciate having all the familiar aspects of 2E available to me in a computer game.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    I liked 3E because it took out the racism that was in 2E and earlier. Mazzy could be a paladin as a halfling after all. There was no more humans can get any level but elves are limited to X amount of XP that I'd heard was in the pnp rules. Also no more dual classing for one race and mulitclassing for others. There was one set of rules for all (and in the darkness bind them).

    In 3E you could also get somewhat unique with your classes by mixing and matching. I liked prestige classes that you could qualify for. My experience with 3E comes from NWN / NWN2. The campaigns weren't great (not baldur's gate great) but I was able to enjoy some online worlds where the settings were better implemented.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition

    I liked 3E because it took out the racism that was in 2E and earlier. Mazzy could be a paladin as a halfling after all. There was no more humans can get any level but elves are limited to X amount of XP that I'd heard was in the pnp rules. Also no more dual classing for one race and mulitclassing for others. There was one set of rules for all (and in the darkness bind them).

    In 3E you could also get somewhat unique with your classes by mixing and matching. I liked prestige classes that you could qualify for. My experience with 3E comes from NWN / NWN2. The campaigns weren't great (not baldur's gate great) but I was able to enjoy some online worlds where the settings were better implemented.

    Most PNP games of 2E I played in addressed all those issues to some extent or another. Most DMs had far more liberal race/class rules than what was published. And speaking for myself, I did away with dual classes 25 years ago for a modified multi-class system available to all races (keep in mind, I'm talking 10+ years before 3E came out). But all the while, I retained the 2E rules for how the classes, abilities and combat worked; which was exactly what was most important to me.

    And I don't ever mean to tell anyone they can't have a different favorite rule set. I only mean to point out that many of your specific reasons actually were addressed by gamers using 2E rules long before 3E came along.

  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    2e already had a way allowing characters to be of non-racial classes, mentioning a gnome paladin as an example. It's just that there are not many halfling wizards or gnome rangers around, and the class limitations mostly point the standards: halflings tend to be thieves, for instance. And apparently only humans had the inner holy fire required to be a paladin.

    Well okay, it was a little silly back then, but you could have a halfling paladin on tabletop, provided your DM was reasonable.

  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition
    @hairyscotsman2 Neverwinter uses 4th edition. (Not Neverwinter Nights...just Neverwinter)

  • ogharaeiogharaei Member Posts: 6
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    I really enjoyed the 3rd edition with nothing but the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster's Manual, but I am also a huge fan of the Advanced 2nd Edition because my first encounters with pen and paper RPGs took place under that particular edition.

  • ogharaeiogharaei Member Posts: 6
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    I also loved the 2nd edition ranger - its 4th edition brother really bothers me and pales in comparision: great, boring ranged striker with only an ounce of flexibility.

  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,365
    edited January 2013
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    We've had a thousand polls like this already, and my vote hasn't changed one bit: 2nd ed. AD&D is my favorite rule set.

  • PlasticGolemPlasticGolem Member Posts: 98
    Dungeons & Dragons


    For my insight, what are the mayor changes made by 2nd Edition? With a gap of some 2 decades between my playing AD&D 1st Edition as a teenager and playing BG for the first time when I was nearing 40, the memory from back then is not so exact, that I saw any difference. Could you refreshen my memory?

    Second edition was meant to be a cleanup and refactoring of the rules to make them more logical, compact and consistent. 1st and 2nd Edition are essentially compatible (moreso than D&D and AD&D, even though players freely and easily used material and rules from one system in the other). There is content that is in one edition but not the other, but that is more a matter of editorial decision than compatibility. For example, you can use the rules for 2nd Edition specialist wizards in a 1st Edition campaign and, likewise, you can import or adapt the 1st Edition assassin class to 2nd Edition, but you won't find these things in the other edition's core rulebooks. 2nd edition presents somewhat different implementations of rules for things like initiative and morale, but you can freely switch between the two without really breaking anything.

    The main difference, in my view, is the character of the rulebooks. 1st Edition was sprawling and chaotic, full of strange, dense, wonderful prose and many mental detours. 2nd Edition was a well-organized, clear, concise, boring rulebook. 2nd Edition told you how to play the game mechanically. 1st Edition inspired you and gave you insight into how to enjoy the game. Basically, the 2nd Edition manuals are about the rules of AD&D while the 1st Edition manuals are about playing AD&D. One is a reference manual, the other is a collection of inspirational essays amidst which are scattered enough rules to piece together a workable game.

    atcDaveclanqui
  • HowieHowie Member Posts: 136
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition
    In 2e DM's option and Player's Options, you can multiclass with any race and level without limit, but with xp penalty for being exceptional among the race, its far more harder for you to level in that class. Classes also gain special features like heavy armor wizard, special spell point system, naked fighters by how you spend your character points. Positioning is also far more crucial with various weapon effects with Combat and Tactics.

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