Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Jaheira Romance is too long!

2»

Comments

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781

    What always freaked me out about Jaheira's romance is that she's like, what, a recent widow, and from BG1 being good friends with Gorion always gave me the impression that she and Khalid were in their late 30s/early 40s. And in BG1 it's established that CHARNAME is in their very early 20s.

    So Jaheira should be able to shapeshift into a cougar, cuz that's what she is.

    I remember a whole thread about that. Due to events she was involved in, they think she is around 40 I remember. That isn't much different than a human pc, considering half elves live longer than humans.

  • ZarakinthishZarakinthish Member Posts: 214
    Actually, the difference between human and half-elf age really isn't that much. Human starting age is 15 + 1d4, while half-elf is 15 + 1d6. It is only near the very end of the age range that there can be a big difference, with a max age of 90 + 2d20 for humans and 125 + 3d20 for half-elves.

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    Also, aerie and viconia are both older

    TJ_Hooker
  • ZarakinthishZarakinthish Member Posts: 214
    Of course they are, they're both elves instead of half-elves. :-P

  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660


    So Jaheira should be able to shapeshift into a cougar, cuz that's what she is.

    looool I wish I had more than one like to give.

    Baptor
  • TinterTinter Member Posts: 152
    I don't know about the age thing, but I think people are being a little unfair about the widow thing.

    She is upset about Khalids death, but she (and him) both lived on the road, in constant combat and uncertain times. She has probably had many people she cared about die, and has brought her share of death herself; she does mourn over Khalids death, but its unlikely she should take years to do so. An ability to move on seems essential to the job. Really, people move on from these things in real life... its not wrong to do so.

    I'm also not sure a person who is the child of a god and has personally killed hundreds or even thousands of creatures really qualifies as a "naive youth" anyway. Certainly, regardless of Aeries greater age its clear who is the naive one there, for example...

    The guardian thing I can see more, but she never really acts as a guardian; from the start in BG1 she says he must walk his own path, and offers to travel with him, not lead him.

  • swnmcmlxiswnmcmlxi Member Posts: 297
    mlnevese said:

    There are some mods that offer banter acceleration. Bg1NPCs is one.

    Yes, makes sense for that one, cheers.

  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232


    I remember a whole thread about that. Due to events she was involved in, they think she is around 40 I remember. That isn't much different than a human pc, considering half elves live longer than humans.

    I recall same thread back at the BioWare forums. You're making her too old. She was born during the war in Tethyr, which begins in 1347 DR:
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/1347_DR
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tethyrian_Interregnum
    And her backstory tells that she was brought to the druids by servant girl at the very young age after her parents died during the mob rampage on nobles' castles.
    So that would make her roughly the same as protagonist, give or take a few years.

  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    As for credibility of her romantic feelings toward protagonist in BG2 - just for the sake of roleplaying the character I just assume that there was something brewing between her and protagonist back in BG1, maybe on subconscious level, or suppressed. After all, Jaheira in BG1 was a married woman back then and protagonist's guardian to boot.

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    Aramintai said:


    I remember a whole thread about that. Due to events she was involved in, they think she is around 40 I remember. That isn't much different than a human pc, considering half elves live longer than humans.

    I recall same thread back at the BioWare forums. You're making her too old. She was born during the war in Tethyr, which begins in 1347 DR:
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/1347_DR
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tethyrian_Interregnum
    And her backstory tells that she was brought to the druids by servant girl at the very young age after her parents died during the mob rampage on nobles' castles.
    So that would make her roughly the same as protagonist, give or take a few years.

    Sorry, I am not sure. It's been a while. Still I understand she is the youngest, but the others are full elves. I still don't know wheather to compare to human age or actual years.

  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232

    Aramintai said:

    p
    I remember a whole thread about that. Due to events she was involved in, they think she is around 40 I remember. That isn't much different than a human pc, considering half elves live longer than humans.

    I recall same thread back at the BioWare forums. You're making her too old. She was born during the war in Tethyr, which begins in 1347 DR:
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/1347_DR
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tethyrian_Interregnum
    And her backstory tells that she was brought to the druids by servant girl at the very young age after her parents died during the mob rampage on nobles' castles.
    So that would make her roughly the same as protagonist, give or take a few years.

    Sorry, I am not sure. It's been a while. Still I understand she is the youngest, but the others are full elves. I still don't know wheather to compare to human age or actual years.

    Well, it's quite interesting to see what starting ages and middles ages are for human and half-elf is in AD&D. Human is considered adult in 15 and middle aged in 35, whereas half-elf is starting as full adult in 20 and considered middle aged in 62. Human's adult age is most likely derived from what was considered adult in Middle Ages - ppl at that time were starting adult life earlier than today. All in all it always seemed quite strange to play any other race except human or half-elf in BG because protagonist's age is predefined and I don't want to play children.

  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    edited January 2013
    Tinter said:

    I don't know about the age thing, but I think people are being a little unfair about the widow thing.

    I still think she moves too fast: A long playthrough of BG2 would be, what? 40 in-game days? With lots of rest, maybe 80 days. So after about three months, she's not only over Khalid's death, but has started a relationship and has essentially moved on. I've never done the Jaheira romance, but if it progresses anything like Viconia's or Aerie's, there's at least the possibility that she could get pregnant shortly after the game ends (again, a few months after her husband - with whom she never conceived a child - has been brutally murdered).
    It's even a little more bizarre if you take into account the fact that the team is captured shortly after defeating Sarevok. Again, assuming a lot of rest, that means Jaheira and CHARNAME have only really known each other for about six months, three of which were with her husband.

    There are only two things that act as a saving grace for her, in my opinion:
    1- This is a game, so obviously things move faster.
    2- She is a druid. If you push her a bit in Irenicus' dungeon, she actually does say something about death being part of the cycle of life. She is the one who refuses to take Khalid to be rezzed, which I believe may have something to do with that. It is unclear (to me, at least) if it is that or because he is so badly disfigured.
    Aramintai said:


    I remember a whole thread about that. Due to events she was involved in, they think she is around 40 I remember. That isn't much different than a human pc, considering half elves live longer than humans.

    I recall same thread back at the BioWare forums. You're making her too old.
    ...
    So that would make her roughly the same as protagonist, give or take a few years.

    Doesn't she say something when you first meet her in FAI in BG 1 about being "old friends" with Gorion? That seems to sound like she's quite a bit older, at least as I interpreted it.

  • KalbarKalbar Member Posts: 6
    rdarken said:

    A long playthrough of BG2 would be, what? 40 in-game days? With lots of rest, maybe 80 days.

    It's been years since I've played BG2 but I'm still only about 2/3rds of the way through BG:EE right now and I'm at over 90 in-game days. Considering how much longer of a game BG2 is, I'm expecting to go at least 120-160 days.

    Do you guys really play that fast?

    TJ_Hooker
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    rdarken said:


    Doesn't she say something when you first meet her in FAI in BG 1 about being "old friends" with Gorion? That seems to sound like she's quite a bit older, at least as I interpreted it.

    Old is a relative term. Also, it can easily be interpreted that Gorion was old friend not of Khalid and Jaheira as individuals, but of Harpers as a group.

  • TinterTinter Member Posts: 152
    I take a lot longer that 40 in game days to get from the dungeon of Irenicus to the end of TOB, I suppose the less you rest/travel/ect the more it is an issue.

    From the start of BG1 to the start of BG2 is over 7 months (change of year vs start date), so she has known Charname at least that long. I believe BG2 to TOB is supposed to be a fairly similar length of time, though it remains the same year.

    I think theres too much comparison to expectations here based on normal circumstances- although some people do become widows and move on, and thats not wrong, indeed I'm a little uncomfortable at this implied judgement of them/ duty upon them to engage in a period of chaste mourning or something. People deal with things in different ways, everyone moves on eventually, I don't think theres some "appropriate" timescale.

    I'm not even a big Jaheria fan or anything, but the Adventuring lifestyle isn't normal. All the experienced aventurers you meet have probably lost companions before, probably many for a Harper like Jaheria. The lifestyle involves constant, high risk of death, constant killing and is probably very emotionally intense. Minsc takes a new witch, you lose your father, everyone just keeps on going, because if you aren't that kind of person, you wouldn't take that kind of job; it also probably promotes fast bonding, as per small units in warfare.

    Oh, and no babies in Jaheria epilogue. Although as above, I don't see how thats relevant.

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Timing is all a bit skewed in BG2, anyway. Take someone playing a mage. Typically, you think of the most powerful wizard in the world as someone who has devoted many years of practical magic (adventuring and the like) and many more years of study of the arcane to achieve that level. For the Charname, that person moves from a 0 xp green wizard to arguably the most powerful wizard in existance (one that Elminster basically says is more powerful than him in TOB) in about 1 year's time (possibly less).

    You can take that timetable and start talking about how fast things are moving based on a literal reading of it or give it some literary license and interpret things as actually developing over a little longer, more epic scale. If you take that latter reading, then you can see there as being a bit more time for relationships to develop between Charname and the NPC's. That is how I take it.

    On the age/guardian thing, I also take that as a roleplaying opportunity for the player. I don't mentally picture every character I play as a naive youth who has to have his hand held by a guardian who tucks him in at night and plays the role of his mother so I don't see the "guardian" role of Jaheira as anything like that of a parent or legal guardian of a 14 year old boy or girl. This is not a Woody Allen style guardian romance. Instead, I view that as Gorion going to some people he trusts not to step in as a parent figure but to have the PC's back from all the danger that is coming his way and give him some advice to guide him to be a force for good rather than the reincarnation of his father. That leaves plenty of room for role playing appropriately into or away from a romantic relationship with Jaheira depending on how I interpret my individual PC.

    As one of now 4 romance options, isn't it realistic that at least one of 4 beautiful, powerful women would be attached at the time she meets Charname? Not every gorgeous powerhouse caster is going to be waiting for the PC to drop into her life...and that is fine.

    My view is that the romance is well-done as a story and if the bugs are cleared and timer for banters accelerated there is little I would change.

  • LMTR14LMTR14 Member Posts: 165
    does not compute. a romance cannot possibly be too long. ever.

  • AristilliusAristillius Member Posts: 873
    For me, Jaheira's romance is by far the best game romance ever. It relates very much to real-life experiences I have had (of course not the dead-husband-and-former-friend-of-father part).

    But I agree wholeheartedly that it is frustratingly easy to bug out.

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,290
    edited January 2013
    The only one I would hardly date would be Aerie, because it is the exact kind of person I wouldn't date in real life - too innocent and vulnerable for my liking!

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946

    For me, Jaheira's romance is by far the best game romance ever. It relates very much to real-life experiences I have had (of course not the dead-husband-and-former-friend-of-father part).

    What exact real life experience DOES it relate to other than dead-husband-and-former-friend-of-father.

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,290
    Well @Dazzu , if you consider that Aerie is a sad girl recovering from a trauma, and Viconia is a former Drow Nazi , Jaheira might represent the most normal of relationships...

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946
    Uh... that didn't answer my question at all. I asked how this related to experiences you had!

  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    DJKajuru said:

    The only one I would hardly date would be Aerie, because it is the exact kind of person I wouldn't date in real life - too innocent and vulnerable for my liking!

    Also annoying. You forgot annoying.

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Dazzu said:

    Uh... that didn't answer my question at all. I asked how this related to experiences you had!

    I can't speak for Dazzu, but the basic framework of a friendship where you help that person deal with the loss of a former love and over time that friendship transforming into something more is something that happens over and over in real life. You can look at the Jaheira romance as a variation on that theme.

  • noddy366noddy366 Member Posts: 5
    hi out of intrest how does one speed up the love talks ?

Sign In or Register to comment.