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Archer grand mastery question

EnterHaerDalisEnterHaerDalis Member Posts: 813
in New Players (NO SPOILERS!)
The Archer kit says Grandmastery in Longbows, Shortbows and Crossbows is available.

The vanilla Ranger kit says you may not exceed specialization (2 slots) in any weapon class. Does this apply to the Archer kit because it's considered a ranger? I can only put 2 pts in any of the weapon classes listed above

Comments

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Always consider the kit description and not the class description. An archer can reach Grand Mastery with any of the mentioned weapons as described in the kit.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,154
    EnterHaerDalis said:

    The Archer kit says Grandmastery in Longbows, Shortbows and Crossbows is available.

    The vanilla Ranger kit says you may not exceed specialization (2 slots) in any weapon class. Does this apply to the Archer kit because it's considered a ranger? I can only put 2 pts in any of the weapon classes listed above

    At first level you can only ever put two pips in any weapon. The Archer's special power lets them put up to five pips eventually in those missile weapons, but they are still limited to two at first level.

    Note too, that you won't get all five in this game. You can put a third pip to a missile weapon at third level, and a fourth at sixth level. But you won't be able to get that fifth pip until ninth level, which exceeds the cap for this game. Ninth level won't be attainable until BG2.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    If you're level 1, you're stuck with a max of 2 in any weapon proficiency. This is true for fighters as well.

    If you're not level 1 but still cannot place more than 2 points in one of the appropriate missile proficiencies, the only cause I can think of is that you've Fallen as a ranger due to acts of evil. If that's the case, you should reload or restart, because being a Fallen Ranger or Paladin is terrible.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Does "fallen" cover Archer as well?

    We were in Nashkel and the bounty hunter in the Inn attacked us, while we killed her, she cast some spell on Kagain and he killed a person in the inn.

    Nothing happened, so I figured, "no harm, no foul", so we headed to the mines and met Dorn, now all the guard in Nashkel attack us and if we kill one, Imoen leaves. I thought it was because Dorn lowered our rep, maybe it was Kagain killing the person in the bar.

    Anyway, its early in the game and I can do a few rep quests (I think we are 4 rep currently).
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    Fiach said:

    Does "fallen" cover Archer as well?

    Yes. Look at your Character Record—it should say "Fallen Archer" at the top.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Jalily said:

    Fiach said:

    Does "fallen" cover Archer as well?

    Yes. Look at your Character Record—it should say "Fallen Archer" at the top.
    What a crock, just wasted 2 days playing because of an accident >.<

    Thanks for the response Jalily.

    Could probably edit but think I'll just re-roll.

    Thanks again :)

  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Fiach said:

    Does "fallen" cover Archer as well?

    We were in Nashkel and the bounty hunter in the Inn attacked us, while we killed her, she cast some spell on Kagain and he killed a person in the inn.

    Nothing happened, so I figured, "no harm, no foul", so we headed to the mines and met Dorn, now all the guard in Nashkel attack us and if we kill one, Imoen leaves. I thought it was because Dorn lowered our rep, maybe it was Kagain killing the person in the bar.

    Anyway, its early in the game and I can do a few rep quests (I think we are 4 rep currently).

    You always need to check the combat log when that happens. It would have shown you taking a massive rep hit, and probably a message indicating that your ranger status has been revoked. This game unfortunately is quite fragile when innocents' lives are taken or threatened, and you always have to walk a narrow line to avoid irreversible penalties such as Falling or turning entire towns hostile.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,154
    Madhax said:

    Fiach said:

    Does "fallen" cover Archer as well?

    We were in Nashkel and the bounty hunter in the Inn attacked us, while we killed her, she cast some spell on Kagain and he killed a person in the inn.

    Nothing happened, so I figured, "no harm, no foul", so we headed to the mines and met Dorn, now all the guard in Nashkel attack us and if we kill one, Imoen leaves. I thought it was because Dorn lowered our rep, maybe it was Kagain killing the person in the bar.

    Anyway, its early in the game and I can do a few rep quests (I think we are 4 rep currently).

    You always need to check the combat log when that happens. It would have shown you taking a massive rep hit, and probably a message indicating that your ranger status has been revoked. This game unfortunately is quite fragile when innocents' lives are taken or threatened, and you always have to walk a narrow line to avoid irreversible penalties such as Falling or turning entire towns hostile.
    UNfortunately??!
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    atcDave said:

    Madhax said:

    Fiach said:

    Does "fallen" cover Archer as well?

    We were in Nashkel and the bounty hunter in the Inn attacked us, while we killed her, she cast some spell on Kagain and he killed a person in the inn.

    Nothing happened, so I figured, "no harm, no foul", so we headed to the mines and met Dorn, now all the guard in Nashkel attack us and if we kill one, Imoen leaves. I thought it was because Dorn lowered our rep, maybe it was Kagain killing the person in the bar.

    Anyway, its early in the game and I can do a few rep quests (I think we are 4 rep currently).

    You always need to check the combat log when that happens. It would have shown you taking a massive rep hit, and probably a message indicating that your ranger status has been revoked. This game unfortunately is quite fragile when innocents' lives are taken or threatened, and you always have to walk a narrow line to avoid irreversible penalties such as Falling or turning entire towns hostile.
    UNfortunately??!
    Unfortunately, in that having a party member get confused and kill a commoner is sufficient to permanently de-power your PC. More modern games tend to take steps to avoid friendly fire, or are more forgiving when friendly fire occurs.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Madhax said:

    atcDave said:

    Madhax said:

    Fiach said:

    Does "fallen" cover Archer as well?

    We were in Nashkel and the bounty hunter in the Inn attacked us, while we killed her, she cast some spell on Kagain and he killed a person in the inn.

    Nothing happened, so I figured, "no harm, no foul", so we headed to the mines and met Dorn, now all the guard in Nashkel attack us and if we kill one, Imoen leaves. I thought it was because Dorn lowered our rep, maybe it was Kagain killing the person in the bar.

    Anyway, its early in the game and I can do a few rep quests (I think we are 4 rep currently).

    You always need to check the combat log when that happens. It would have shown you taking a massive rep hit, and probably a message indicating that your ranger status has been revoked. This game unfortunately is quite fragile when innocents' lives are taken or threatened, and you always have to walk a narrow line to avoid irreversible penalties such as Falling or turning entire towns hostile.
    UNfortunately??!
    Unfortunately, in that having a party member get confused and kill a commoner is sufficient to permanently de-power your PC. More modern games tend to take steps to avoid friendly fire, or are more forgiving when friendly fire occurs.
    Also, I cant get the rep back, so that character is to all intents and purposes useless to me which is rather annoying.
    Anyway, from now on my characters will be evil, so it wont be a problem in future :)

    Thanks for the replies :)
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Fiach said:

    Madhax said:

    atcDave said:

    Madhax said:

    Fiach said:

    Does "fallen" cover Archer as well?

    We were in Nashkel and the bounty hunter in the Inn attacked us, while we killed her, she cast some spell on Kagain and he killed a person in the inn.

    Nothing happened, so I figured, "no harm, no foul", so we headed to the mines and met Dorn, now all the guard in Nashkel attack us and if we kill one, Imoen leaves. I thought it was because Dorn lowered our rep, maybe it was Kagain killing the person in the bar.

    Anyway, its early in the game and I can do a few rep quests (I think we are 4 rep currently).

    You always need to check the combat log when that happens. It would have shown you taking a massive rep hit, and probably a message indicating that your ranger status has been revoked. This game unfortunately is quite fragile when innocents' lives are taken or threatened, and you always have to walk a narrow line to avoid irreversible penalties such as Falling or turning entire towns hostile.
    UNfortunately??!
    Unfortunately, in that having a party member get confused and kill a commoner is sufficient to permanently de-power your PC. More modern games tend to take steps to avoid friendly fire, or are more forgiving when friendly fire occurs.
    Also, I cant get the rep back, so that character is to all intents and purposes useless to me which is rather annoying.
    Anyway, from now on my characters will be evil, so it wont be a problem in future :)

    Thanks for the replies :)
    You totally can get your rep back, but other than (if I recall correctly) a certain scripted encounter in BG2, there's no way to fix a Fallen status for a paladin or ranger. If you were, say, a good Cleric, you'd have no problems fixing your rep with a visit to the local temple.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Madhax said:

    Fiach said:

    Madhax said:

    atcDave said:

    Madhax said:

    Fiach said:

    Does "fallen" cover Archer as well?

    We were in Nashkel and the bounty hunter in the Inn attacked us, while we killed her, she cast some spell on Kagain and he killed a person in the inn.

    Nothing happened, so I figured, "no harm, no foul", so we headed to the mines and met Dorn, now all the guard in Nashkel attack us and if we kill one, Imoen leaves. I thought it was because Dorn lowered our rep, maybe it was Kagain killing the person in the bar.

    Anyway, its early in the game and I can do a few rep quests (I think we are 4 rep currently).

    You always need to check the combat log when that happens. It would have shown you taking a massive rep hit, and probably a message indicating that your ranger status has been revoked. This game unfortunately is quite fragile when innocents' lives are taken or threatened, and you always have to walk a narrow line to avoid irreversible penalties such as Falling or turning entire towns hostile.
    UNfortunately??!
    Unfortunately, in that having a party member get confused and kill a commoner is sufficient to permanently de-power your PC. More modern games tend to take steps to avoid friendly fire, or are more forgiving when friendly fire occurs.
    Also, I cant get the rep back, so that character is to all intents and purposes useless to me which is rather annoying.
    Anyway, from now on my characters will be evil, so it wont be a problem in future :)

    Thanks for the replies :)
    You totally can get your rep back, but other than (if I recall correctly) a certain scripted encounter in BG2, there's no way to fix a Fallen status for a paladin or ranger. If you were, say, a good Cleric, you'd have no problems fixing your rep with a visit to the local temple.
    Sorry, I actually meant Fallen Status, not rep, nice catch :)

  • EnterHaerDalisEnterHaerDalis Member Posts: 813
    or you could, you know... role play it.

    your probably still better off than playing a 75 roll Charname which is all I do from now on :)
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    EnterHaerDalis said:

    or you could, you know... role play it.

    your probably still better off than playing a 75 roll Charname which is all I do from now on :)

    Ugh. Playing as a fighter who can't master weapons and who only levels up as fast as a paladin or ranger? Sounds abysmally dull. I'm all for dealing with setbacks rather than reloading, but Falling in the BG series ruins the game for me and I wouldn't recommend powering through it for anyone.

    If you did decide to roleplay it, I'd at least edit the character into a fighter. That way the character isn't a completely underpowered warrior, and perhaps gets the ability to dual-class. Fallen paladin -> Cleric of Talos could be interesting...
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Yes, I could edit it, but I'm not into that, I just re-rolled a Blade and I'm not far from where I was initially with he Archer.

    Thanks for the replies :)
  • KampriKampri Member Posts: 42
    "More modern games tend to take steps to avoid friendly fire, or are more forgiving when friendly fire occurs."

    Yet another reason this game is awesome.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    @Kampri

    Meh. I'm all for difficulty and realism, but I don't see why your god should abandon you simply because your party member was magically compelled to kill an innocent, especially in an irreversible way.

    Of course, in @Fiach's example, his god might punish him the second he recruited an evil bastard like Kagain in the first place, but I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from.
  • KampriKampri Member Posts: 42
    edited February 2013
    "magically compelled to kill an innocent"

    Is the innocent still not dead?
    I love morality discussions.
    God bless you BG EE.
    ;)

    Edit: I know what you're saying though Madhax.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    @Kampri

    It's a crime, and should be atoned for. It sure as hell isn't an unforgivable crime, though. Since BG1 has no means for a paladin or ranger to amend this mistake, I view it as a flaw in the game.
  • KampriKampri Member Posts: 42
    Madhax said:

    @Kampri

    It's a crime, and should be atoned for. It sure as hell isn't an unforgivable crime, though. Since BG1 has no means for a paladin or ranger to amend this mistake, I view it as a flaw in the game.

    Wow, that is a flaw.
    I figured if they made it possible to become "fallen", they would have a way for a character to repent.
    Good point.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    Madhax said:


    If you're not level 1 but still cannot place more than 2 points in one of the appropriate missile proficiencies, the only cause I can think of is that you've Fallen as a ranger due to acts of evil. If that's the case, you should reload or restart, because being a Fallen Ranger or Paladin is terrible.

    I used to play a fallen paladin on purpose in the past. As a kid I thought that was like the coolest thing possible.
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