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Class, Kit, Dual-Class & Logic

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Anduin

Comments

  • OzzyBotkinsOzzyBotkins Member Posts: 396
    This is a new twist in the Baldur's Gate experience
    The idea of only Humans being able to choose any kit to start has changed
    and it opens the door for more interesting possibilities
    We now have a Dwarf only kit
    maybe we can take that farther and have a Halfling only kit (like truesword )
    or a male or a female only kit
    a Human only kit
    an elf only kit
    am interested to see what happens next

  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    Think of a kit as a specialized variation of its parent class, not a standalone class on equal footing with the others. A character who is a Shadowdancer, for example, is considered a Thief except when Shadowdancer-specific rules come into play. That's why the Advantages and Disadvantages of kits don't repeat the traits of their parent class.

    You can't dual-class into your parent class, so a human with a kit still ends up with abilities belonging to two classes. :)

    Stargazer5781
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,384
    edited February 2013
    You're over-thinking things. A class is part of an overarching category - Warrior, Priest, Rogue, Wizard. They are differentiated by hit dice, thac0 tables, saving throw tables, access to special skills and/or magical abilities, and HLAs.

    Within each category are the classes: fighter/ranger/paladin; cleric/druid; thief/bard; and mage (mage is the only class in the wizard category). The dual-classing rules apply at this level. A human can be any class.

    Within each class are various kits. A kensai is a kind of fighter (which is a kind of warrior); a "true-class"/"kitless" fighter is really just a different kind of fighter (a kit all its own, really). A human cannot choose any kit, because some kits are racially specialized. A human naturally cannot be a Dwarven Defender or an Elven Bladesinger, etc.

    "kensai/mage" is just shorthand for "fighter/mage with the kensai kit chosen for his first class." You can see how the former is a bit easier to say and write...

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,107
    Classes and kits are fundamentally different. A class defines the basic abilities a character has, as well as certain parameters such as saving throws or HP. A kit uses the given class base, and then adds/detracts a few extra things to further refine the class; it's a sub-class, if you so will. So all Kensais (kit) are Fighters (class); but Berserkers (kit) are also Fighters (class).

    As such, humans can in fact be any class (Fighter, Cleric, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Mage, Thief, Bard, Monk) but not every kit (everything except Dwarven Defender).

    The class distinction is important, because many abilities are shared. Fighters for example can achieve grandmastery with weapons, receive a bonus to their HP based on their Constitution, roll their HP with d10, and follow a certain progression table for their levels. Some of these may be changed by kits (like a Dwarven Defender not being able to reach Grandmastery, and rolling HP with d12), but most of them will stay the same. There are also items that are specific to certain classes (i.e. "usable only by Fighters") - these will work for all kits of that class, unless specified otherwise.

    Dual-classing means abandoning your current class and kit, and starting a new career - this new choice can ONLY be a class, NOT a kit. The first one however CAN be a kit. So a Kensai can become a Mage, but not an Invoker. Even if the base is not a kit, you can not dual INTO a kit. A Fighter (no kit) cannot dual into Invoker, either.

    Multi-classing means progressing with two CLASSES at the same time, but neither can be a kit. You could be a Fighter/Cleric, but not a Kensai/Cleric, or a Fighter/Cleric of Talos. The ONLY exception (in BG) to this rule are Gnomes; when they are part of a multi-class combination that includes Mage, they will ALWAYS be an Illusionist (i.e. a kit).

    It's easiest perhaps if you think of it as a tiered system. Think folders - you start with the class-folders: Fighter, Cleric, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Mage, Thief, Bard, Monk. Then once you open a folder, you find the kit-folders for that class. Fighter, for example, would contain: Berserker, Wizard Slayer, Kensai, Dwarven Defender. Thief would contain: Swashbuckler, Assassin, Bounty Hunter, Shadowdancer.

    I hope this clears things up a bit!

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,129
    It'd be pretty ridiculous to write monoclassdualclassorkit or something to better describe it

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    No, in BGEE there is no real difference between a class and a kit, apart from where they are listed on the menu.

    The example is Barbarian. This is coded as a fighter kit, but listed as a class in the menu. Dwarven Defender is actually a variant Barbarian, being much more similar to them than to vanilla fighters (hit dice, damage resistance, stat boost, two stars in most weapons).

  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    @Bhaaldog I love you... But this thread says "I'm an insomniac and I already solved that falling tree in the woods crap..."

    Does it matter? Really?

    Now let me listen to one hand clapping...

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Protip: a kit is the name you give to a baby ferret

    Anduin
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    Protip: a class is what you teach.

  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    For all insomniacs out there solve this...

    If a Dwarven defender attacks... Does he not then become a Dwarven attacker?

  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    The best defense is a good offense!

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