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Thoughts on Neera's alignment

I remember a debate I've seen on Neera's alignment on another thread, and I thought about it today at work. Instead of derailing said thread with more debate I decided to just make a new topic for people to discuss it.

I realized the main problem is people are thinking of alignment on their personal terms. I've had characters in my DnD games who came out as bad whom were just greedy thieves, and characters who were good who had a simple good nature about them.

I decided to think in terms of how Baldur's Gate seems to define alignment. First, I thought of how it defines evil. Every evil character that came to mind had one thing in common. They were willing to murder people to get what they want. In this way they were all undeniably evil, even characters who just seemed selfish, rude or greedy did not come off as evil. You had to be genuinely think of murder as a practical solution to problems.

But the question isn't "Is Neera evil?" its "Is Neera chaotic good?" and after thinking about it, I've had a change of heart. Shes not chaotic good. The reason is a character who is evil must be undeniably evil, therefore a character who is good must be undeniably heroic or, at least, willing to be self-sacrificing and do the right thing even if its not the smartest or wisest decision.

Neera doesn't mean harm but her goals are hardly heroic in nature. While, to me, neutral is a character who does both good or bad things, in the Baldur's Gate games its defined as someone who is not heroic or villainous in their actions, and Neera is certainly neither of these. Therefore the chaotic neutral alignment is fitting.

Also, apologizes if someone brought up this argument before.

Comments

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    edited April 2013
    That's a good point and an excellent perspective. Perhaps that could explain Garrick's alignment as well.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I still don't think that the "self sacrifice" automatically makes "good". As I said before, druids are big on that. In the case of the Shadow Druids, they are very willing to use murder and basically attack you for saying the wrong thing. Or if you have Jaheira in your party, even for less - they just attack without talking. Yet all druids are true neutral. How much sense that makes is a different story, but it's in the game and therefore relevant for how alignments are interpreted.

    I see Garrick as a "free spirit" - he is an artist and he does not care who provides the epic tale, as long as he is treated with respect.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    I've found this to be a pretty good resource for alignments: http://easydamus.com/alignment.html

    My thinking, most people are True Neutral.
    They prefer good over evil in the way that people prefer good neighbors over bad. They obey the laws they have to or they agree with and ignore the laws that they can get away with or find too odious. They take care of their own friends and families and are rather indifferent towards people outside those groups.

    So working from there, any sort of strong sense of Good and Evil or Right and Wrong or Tradition or Liberty could push someone into one of the other categories. You don't need to be a paragon of an alignment to still qualify for that alignment. The difference between Robin Hood being Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral is a fairly fine line and to my mind comes down to the fact that while he started his personal crusade for himself, he continued it for everyone else who was being oppressed .
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    So far Neera hasn't surprised me , which is really a shame.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    DJKajuru said:

    So far Neera hasn't surprised me , which is really a shame.

    Even after she dropped a cow on your head?

    On topic: My opinion; She is CN. Wild mages are chaotic in nature, and she is self serving. It doesn't matter who she joins up with as long as they get her out of her troubles and debts. She is looking more for protection while she flaunts the laws of magic then to make a difference in the world - good or bad.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,364
    I think CN fits her perfectly as written. She is good natured and fun (mostly), but as the OP points out, that is NOT the same thing as good aligned.

    Now do hope there is some option to sway her over to CG in the course of BG2 (via interaction with a good aligned PC, especially if she's involved in a romance with a good PC). But we will need to see some changes in her outlook to accompany that, like at least some remorse for the trouble she's caused!
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    @deltago , I felt that she is kinda transparent . Her role is basically "I'm cocky , kinda immature and ops, something random happened" . I wish to see her show a deeper personality, like Jaheira and Vicky did in BG2.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    @DJKajuru The NPCs didn't really get any kind of fleshing out til the second game, so let's hope the new NPCs are developed as well as the others. The new NPCs are already ahead of the originals who ended up being beloved for the bits of dialogue they spouted and only the most basic interactions.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    I hope so @CaptRory !
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    @DJKajuru I hope so as well!
  • KalabacKalabac Member Posts: 12
    edited April 2013
    How the f* do I post a thread
    Post edited by mlnevese on
  • AlexisisinneedAlexisisinneed Member Posts: 470
    I feel that Neera adapts to whoever she's partying with just because she needs said party to protect from those red rapist. So if your party is good she pretends to be 'heroic' and if your party is bad she pretends to be evil. It's kind of why I don't think she really likes the pc as she's just seducing him to stay in the party and thats why there is no romance talk after you kiss her.
  • bill_zagoudisbill_zagoudis Member Posts: 207
    neera is selfish and opportunist,she runs away from trouble rather than facing it,she has robbed people to cover her needs,she is a wild mage(risk taker by nature) and there's nothing heroic/selfless or sadistic/villanous about her so CN is the only alignment that remains
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    edited April 2013
    Kalabac said:

    How the f* do I post a thread

    For starters, you could ask nicely.
    Post edited by mlnevese on
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Please people mind your language...
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    deltago said:

    DJKajuru said:

    So far Neera hasn't surprised me , which is really a shame.

    Even after she dropped a cow on your head?

    On topic: My opinion; She is CN. Wild mages are chaotic in nature, and she is self serving. It doesn't matter who she joins up with as long as they get her out of her troubles and debts. She is looking more for protection while she flaunts the laws of magic then to make a difference in the world - good or bad.

    Then why all alignments are avaiable for wild mages?
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Magic doesn't equal personality, at least not the way magic works. Surges are not intended by the user, that's why they are wild, after all. I can see certain types of people be drawn to certain schools of magic - same as a certain type of person is drawn to a certain profession. But wild mage is more like sorcerer, it's about how they learn and cast spells, not which school. So, wild mages aren't "chaotic by nature", imo.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    atcDave said:

    I think CN fits her perfectly as written. She is good natured and fun (mostly), but as the OP points out, that is NOT the same thing as good aligned.

    Now do hope there is some option to sway her over to CG in the course of BG2 (via interaction with a good aligned PC, especially if she's involved in a romance with a good PC). But we will need to see some changes in her outlook to accompany that, like at least some remorse for the trouble she's caused!

    And how about turning CE while romancing an evil Charname?>:D
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    @ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

    So she'd end up wearing black leather and some kind of corset?

    I'll go roll up an evil PC.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    CaptRory said:

    @ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

    So she'd end up wearing black leather and some kind of corset?

    I'll go roll up an evil PC.

    Oh yeah. ''drool''.

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