This is a really interesting discussion, and I'm learning a lot from all the posters who seem to know quite a bit about medieval weaponry and fighting techniques.
Early in the thread, I was making the common "chaotic equals random and stupid" mistake, and by the end, the other posters had me convinced otherwise, and that the chaotic evil alignment really does fit Sarevok with his 17 intelligence.
I would suggest maybe re-rezzing that thread if we want to talk about Sarevok's alignment again, so it won't derail this one, which I think is supposed to be about Sarevok's powers.
That I dont get. If Eltan was this excellent fighter and Sarevok was a man that could rend people in two, why would Sarevok poison him. If it was Artemis Entreri, he would fight him and either die fighting him, or kill him himself. The same goes for drizzt although unlikely as drizzt is good. Sarevok might be one of the strangest fighters to figure out. He's tough as nails but has no problem doing things through guile once in a while. Arent chaotic evil characters supposed to just be mindless crazies?
Maybe poisoning is more "Murder-Ee" In Sarevok's mind than just stabbing someone to death.
A big thing about having goals and thinking yourself the most important person in the world: You tend not to want to risk yourself unnecessarily.
Duke Eltan was known as a really good swordsman. And even if Sarevok thought he could take the Duke single handedly, why risk getting critted three times in a row? Have someone poison him which also keeps his hands clean for his ascension to political power.
When Charname chases Sarevok down, you have him cornered and he still has a bunch of flunkies and traps and such to keep you away from him.
That I dont get. If Eltan was this excellent fighter and Sarevok was a man that could rend people in two, why would Sarevok poison him. If it was Artemis Entreri, he would fight him and either die fighting him, or kill him himself. The same goes for drizzt although unlikely as drizzt is good. Sarevok might be one of the strangest fighters to figure out. He's tough as nails but has no problem doing things through guile once in a while. Arent chaotic evil characters supposed to just be mindless crazies?
It would be extremely unintelligent of sarevok to even risk getting caught killing Eltan, or any other higher up. Hence using doppelgangers, minions etc, and not getting his hands dirty. Sarevok has 17 int... Humans cap at 18, so he is a genius basically.
I personally do not see sarevok as particularly chaotic, he seems more 'any methods necessary', which is a NE tactic. Technically, I see him as even somewhat lawful, in the extremely arrogant form where he acknowledges no superior or equal, but brutally dominates everything around him, or tries to. He also has great difficulty adjusting his plans as you become more of a threat, and I don't see chaotic characters being so stuck in their ways.
IMO, his alignment is a key asset, since he plans so carefully and so long term. But 17 int is high enough to have a big effect on behaviour. I very much see this as a nonissue, since evil in his case is so extreme that it defines him more than his view on structures and morality.
@DKnight No, Chaotic Evil characters are not supposed to be just mindless crazies. Mindless crazies usually ARE Chaotic Evil, but not all Chaotic Evil characters are mindless crazies. Chaotic Evil denotes a character whose evil is generally unhindered by any sort of ethics or code, whereas Neutral and Lawful Evil characters generally have more than a few limitations. Chaotic Evil characters will do whatever will bring them pleasure or power, and for them that usually that means killing people, stealing, and destroying. Sarevok is Chaotic Evil, but he isn't some raider or lunatic. He knows exactly what he's doing, and knows that just walking up to Eltan and cleaving him in two will not move his plans forward.
Evil characters that are smart don't intentionally turn public opinion against themselves unless doing so fits into their schemes. This is true regardless of a character's Law-Chaos standing.
Whereas I completely agree with you @Schneidend, this topic is in danger of becoming seriously derailed. As @belgarathmth said there is an entire thread numerous pages long discussing this - it might be worth res'ing that one instead.
Urgh.. The thought of delving back into the topic of Sarevok's alignment quite frankly gives me a head ache. I must have written 2000 words in that last thread in debate.
That being said: Eltan ---> Sarevok
Five words, a little arrow and a winky face. Concise and straight to the point! xD
Sarevok might be one of the strangest fighters to figure out. He's tough as nails but has no problem doing things through guile once in a while. Arent chaotic evil characters supposed to just be mindless crazies?
Stupid Evil is the mindless crazy guys... But I think that Sarevok is more Neutral Evil than anything... Atleast in BG1... A Chaotic Evil character would do most of the things he does just because he can, but he has an actual end goal.
That I dont get. If Eltan was this excellent fighter and Sarevok was a man that could rend people in two, why would Sarevok poison him. .... Arent chaotic evil characters supposed to just be mindless crazies?
To answer your first question. It's because Sarevok knows when to be subtle. It would probably kill his chances to become a duke if he went "HAHAHAHA I KILL ELTAN!" and then chunked him in front of the council. And chaotic evils aren't just crazies. They're defined by their lack of compassion and disregard for the rules. A lawful evil would be a congressman while a neutral evil would be a businessman.
Stupid Evil is the mindless crazy guys... But I think that Sarevok is more Neutral Evil than anything... Atleast in BG1... A Chaotic Evil character would do most of the things he does just because he can, but he has an actual end goal.
Having an end goal is not somehow outside the parameters of the Chaotic Evil alignment. Ultimately, somebody's goals are never important to their alignment, or at least not as important as how they go about achieving those goals and the direct consequences of their actions. Sarevok's plan would cause death on a massive scale, topple governments, destroy economies, and if he actually did manage to take the portfolio of his father via his plans then it would change the balance of power among the deities of Toril. All of that upheaval and destruction coupled with the fact that Sarevok simply does not care about such consequences are what make him Chaotic Evil.
Comments
As to Sarevok's alignment, we quite recently had a lengthy discussion about that here:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/18086/is-sarevok-really-chaotic-evil/p1
Early in the thread, I was making the common "chaotic equals random and stupid" mistake, and by the end, the other posters had me convinced otherwise, and that the chaotic evil alignment really does fit Sarevok with his 17 intelligence.
I would suggest maybe re-rezzing that thread if we want to talk about Sarevok's alignment again, so it won't derail this one, which I think is supposed to be about Sarevok's powers.
Duke Eltan was known as a really good swordsman. And even if Sarevok thought he could take the Duke single handedly, why risk getting critted three times in a row? Have someone poison him which also keeps his hands clean for his ascension to political power.
When Charname chases Sarevok down, you have him cornered and he still has a bunch of flunkies and traps and such to keep you away from him.
I personally do not see sarevok as particularly chaotic, he seems more 'any methods necessary', which is a NE tactic. Technically, I see him as even somewhat lawful, in the extremely arrogant form where he acknowledges no superior or equal, but brutally dominates everything around him, or tries to. He also has great difficulty adjusting his plans as you become more of a threat, and I don't see chaotic characters being so stuck in their ways.
IMO, his alignment is a key asset, since he plans so carefully and so long term. But 17 int is high enough to have a big effect on behaviour. I very much see this as a nonissue, since evil in his case is so extreme that it defines him more than his view on structures and morality.
No, Chaotic Evil characters are not supposed to be just mindless crazies. Mindless crazies usually ARE Chaotic Evil, but not all Chaotic Evil characters are mindless crazies. Chaotic Evil denotes a character whose evil is generally unhindered by any sort of ethics or code, whereas Neutral and Lawful Evil characters generally have more than a few limitations. Chaotic Evil characters will do whatever will bring them pleasure or power, and for them that usually that means killing people, stealing, and destroying. Sarevok is Chaotic Evil, but he isn't some raider or lunatic. He knows exactly what he's doing, and knows that just walking up to Eltan and cleaving him in two will not move his plans forward.
Evil characters that are smart don't intentionally turn public opinion against themselves unless doing so fits into their schemes. This is true regardless of a character's Law-Chaos standing.
Urgh.. The thought of delving back into the topic of Sarevok's alignment quite frankly gives me a head ache. I must have written 2000 words in that last thread in debate.
That being said: Eltan ---> Sarevok
Five words, a little arrow and a winky face. Concise and straight to the point! xD
And chaotic evils aren't just crazies. They're defined by their lack of compassion and disregard for the rules.
A lawful evil would be a congressman while a neutral evil would be a businessman.