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When is the drow playable race coming out?

xLegionxxLegionx Member Posts: 197
in Archive (Feature Requests)
Are they going to be placing an update to play as a drow? Or did I miss it?
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Comments

  • IlphalarIlphalar Member Posts: 68
    edited May 2013
    I guess it wouldn't make much sense, they would have to rewrite half of the game to fit the lore with a drow who's walking freely around the city and talking to the people ;-)

    Though, well, I haven't heard of such an update so far.
  • LuigirulesLuigirules Member Posts: 419
    I'm not quite sure what led you to make such an assumption.
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    I suppose you can make an elf and give it white hair and black skin. The other Drow in the game don't have any special characteristics other than that, and they're still just classified as "Elf" in the character screen.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    I hope in the future. I doubt in the next patch or 2
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    I hope never. It's a pointless addition to a game which would make absolute no sense to have included. As @Ilphalar said: half the game would need to be re-written.
  • Draith012Draith012 Member Posts: 174
    edited May 2013
    Then what am I suppose to do with this portrait?!!!
    image
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    As @Luigirules suggests, I think it's less a question of when it's coming, and more a question of if. Drow (and subraces in general) may have been requested a bunch of times, but I don't think the devs have ever said anything that would suggest they're for sure getting implemented. At most, I think they may have said something way back about how they were considering it, or would like to do it, but nothing more.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    That's rubbish about half the game having to be rewitten. Growing up as a drow in candlekeep is no more problematic the growing up as a druid in candlekeep. Or a blackguard.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Why is a hipster like the entire human population of Faerun?

    They both liked Drow better when they were underground
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    @ajwz - but it would make no sense. NPC's throughout Faerun would spend most of their time trying to kill the player rather than giving him/her quests. Every piece of dialogue would have to reference the players ethnicity. It would completely go against the lore of the game and of the setting - which I can't see WoTC sanctioning.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    If you have a low reputation, lots of npcs throughout the sword coast react very negatively to you, often being rude, reducing your rewards from quests and so on.
    Play as a drow, they should lock the game so you always receive these reactions regardless of your reputation. Or cap it so your reputation can never get above 8. (as well as the standard starting -2 to rep for being a drow)
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    I would only agree to the Drow Subrace being added if your reputation is stuck at 2, and the flaming fist constantly show up to arrest/attack the PC. Only then would it make sense.

    Drizzt Do'Urden spent the best part of 50 years convincing surfacers that he was a good guy. He was also quite a decent fighter upon leaving the Underdark thus he had the ability to defend himself. A Dark Elven CHARNAME right out of Candlekeep would be a slaughter.
  • CzarnyCzarny Member Posts: 42
    EntropyXII said:

    I would only agree to the Drow Subrace being added if your reputation is stuck at 2, and the flaming fist constantly show up to arrest/attack the PC. Only then would it make sense.

    Drizzt Do'Urden spent the best part of 50 years convincing surfacers that he was a good guy. He was also quite a decent fighter upon leaving the Underdark thus he had the ability to defend himself. A Dark Elven CHARNAME right out of Candlekeep would be a slaughter.

    You can have Viconia in both games, and Baeloth in the first. Nobody really makes a huge fuss about it, bar the initial encounters you have with the priestess of Shar and her backstory, once she reveals it to you. The Flaming Fist don't come at you from behind every tree, and the Cowled Wizards never try to dissect her for experimentation. What I see here, my friend, is you rolling very low on your Diplomacy check trying to convince us to something that ain't applicable to a computer game. Sure, in pen&paper playing a happy-go-lucky Lawful Evil drow sorcerer probably wouldn't fall through. Here, you can be a halfling druid who spent his life in a fortress, a 110 year old adolescent elf warrior who somehow grew up with Imoen or a half-orc barbarian with 3 INT, and noboby is gonna give you a second look.
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    edited May 2013
    @Czarny - When you meet Viconia in BG1 she is being hunted by the flaming fist who want to kill her. When you meet Viconia in BG2 she is about to be burned alive. The reason people leave her alone afterwards is because she likely hides her face and she has the PC to protect her. Keldorn even tries to kill her after a certain amount of time. Even the elves in BG2 (when leaving the underdark) only choose not to kill her on the off chance that she swears a geas. This becomes mute if the PC is also a Drow does it not?

    Do people forget these things?

    And actually half-orcs are not uncommon along the Sword Coast. Many are the results of Orc raids into human lands. They are not liked very much but neither are they attacked on site.
  • BestopherBestopher Member Posts: 28
    edited May 2013
    I would also like to point point out two things (which have already been pointed out many times likely) :
    1) The Drow have a severe advantage in their magic resistance (on top of the already nice ELF characteristics).
    2) Where do you draw the line? Let the Drow in now, and maybe it's lesser giants later (Ogres etc.).

    I agree with @Sylvus_Moonbow ; Keep Drow underground!
  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Icewind Gate allows PC Drow.
  • CzarnyCzarny Member Posts: 42
    edited May 2013
    @EntropyXII - yeah, a single FF mercenary, and you never get no trouble from them ever again. Same for BG2, it's all just a little decoration. So what, the PC can't hide his face and have a bunch of companions to protect him/her? It can become mute anyways if I create an elf character and give him black skin and white hair. Might as well give them a name, a couple of stats and call it a day. It makes as much sense lore-wise as a myriad of other character choices you can already make, and if you don't think it does, you don't have to play one.
    I'm not saying I want drow in the game, 'cause I couldn't care less, but I don't like to deny other people's feature request ideas just because I don't see a use for them myself. More features = good, right? What I want to get my hands on is tieflings.
    And as for horcs, I never said they should be attacked on sight. But you bet their presence would be aknowledged, and it doesn't exactly make a huge amount of sense for a horc barb with animal-level intellect to come out of Candlekeep.

    @Bestopher
    1. It could be worked out I'm sure. 1% two-way(beneficial spells too!) magic resistance per level? Keeps the flavour, and it's rather useless. You don't have to slap 50% on them right away, y'know.
    2. I'm not even responding to that out of fear you're making a joke and I'm a doofus for taking it seriously ;)
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    @Czarny - What I don't understand is why people would want to play one in BG. It's not an open world game. There is a thick plot which revolves heavily around the main character and being a Dark Elf would seriously detract from the story.

    Baldur's Gate is known for it's exceptionally well written story. Just how well written would this story be if the character could be made a Dark Elf? It would destroy large sections of the plot UNLESS the dev's re-write much of the games dialogue - which they are not allowed to do as far as I know. That's the point isn't it. Baldur's Gate has a very well written story which fits perfectly within the world in which it is set.

    I believe I am well within my rights to argue against the addition this feature - a feature which has the potential to ruin the story of a game I grew up loving. It doesn't matter if I choose to play one or not.

    And as you clearly stated: People can just make their skin black and hair white and pretend they are a Dark Elf. Why can't they do this then? I have no problem with this. I'll tell you why - people want the nifty magic resistance which will make it pointless for any new players to Baldur's Gate to choose any race other than Dark Elf. The same goes for the additions of Tiefling and Aasimar. Now like yourself, I love Tieflings. However, I fully understand and realise that introducing them into Baldur's Gate will be including an overpowered race which considerably disrupts the story.

    I believe NWN2 and IWD2 have a poorly written Dark Elf subrace and plot which is ignored after the first few bits of dialogue. Perhaps people should play those games?
  • CzarnyCzarny Member Posts: 42
    edited May 2013
    EntropyXII said:

    @Czarny - What I don't understand is why people would want to play one in BG. It's not an open world game.

    Clearly ;) And you're right it ain't - it's super duper linear and plays almost exactly the same if you're a CE blackguard or a LG paladin. Shouldn't it play the same if you're black and pointy eared or white and pointy eared? I know the lore makes drow the bad guys, but we all know the engine and writing has it's limitations.
    EntropyXII said:

    There is a thick plot which revolves heavily around the main character and being a Dark Elf would seriously detract from the story.

    Now I don't understand how. Bhaal dipped his divine bacon bazooker in just about anything that walked, crawled or flew over the Realms. In fact, we have a villain Bhaalspawn drow in ToB. I too grew up with BG and somehow I don't see myself loosing my shit over such a wee little thang.
    EntropyXII said:

    Baldur's Gate is known for it's exceptionally well written story. Just how well written would this story be if the character could be made a Dark Elf? It would destroy large sections of the plot UNLESS the dev's re-write much of the games dialogue - which they are not allowed to do as far as I know. That's the point isn't it. Baldur's Gate has a very well written story which fits perfectly within the world in which it is set.

    Which sections are you exactly referring to? I know it doesn't make sense. But I fail to see how it explodes the plot? Besides, they don't really have to change it. They could add an encounter where you get egged at a marketplace, and another where you get assaulted by the same guys that attacked Viconia. Add, not change. I'd think it rather sufficient, because BG is about what's inside you - the essence of the God of Murder - and how you deal with it, and to a lesser extent about what race or class you are. It should be up to personal preference and flavour, the cherry on the top, the icing on the cake. And what if I want to create a multiplayer party and have a drow in it as a companion to my Charname? The plot is still intact, aye?
    EntropyXII said:

    And as you clearly stated: People can just make their skin black and hair white and pretend they are a Dark Elf. Why can't they do this then?

    So you are okay with people playing a drow... as long as we don't call him a drow? C'mon, mate, don't be like that.
    EntropyXII said:

    I have no problem with this. I'll tell you why - people want the nifty magic resistance which will make it pointless for any new players to Baldur's Gate to choose any race other than Dark Elf.

    Speaking for "the People" now, are we? So, People, is it true? Do you only want that purely speculative, sweet, sweet magic resistance? 'Cause the thought never crossed my own mind. Maybe they just like drow 'cause they are so dark and chaotic and evil, and they live in a super lawful caste society that is based upon backstabbing. I really don't like drow, in case there are any doubts, but hey, they're here, and they aren't going anywhere.
    And we all know the People only play kensai/mage. It's the only viable choice, really, being so powerful and all...
    EntropyXII said:

    The same goes for the additions of Tiefling and Aasimar. Now like yourself, I love Tieflings. However, I fully understand and realise that introducing them into Baldur's Gate will be including an overpowered race which considerably disrupts the story.

    The races are as overpowered as the devs make them. And a tiefling Bhaalspawn would make so much, oh so much sense, and also be extradelicious fluff wise. Tieflings are cool, and I'm not talking Haer'dalis here.
    EntropyXII said:

    I believe NWN2 and IWD2 have a poorly written Dark Elf subrace and plot which is ignored after the first few bits of dialogue. Perhaps people should play those games?

    At ease, soldat, no need to be like that. I doubt we gonna see subraces in the original BG in our lifetimes(BG 3, now, is another story) in any form other than mods(which is plenty enough if you ask me), so you win one way or another. In fact, we're all probably wasting our time discussing it, as fun as it is to have a thought provoking conversation. But I find it shocking an addition such as this would actually have such an enermous impact on you and your game. But alas, your opinion is valued and respected by me, if I don't entirely agree with it. De gustibus et coloribus etc. ;)
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    @Czarny - Look, i'm not trying to argue, or argue just for the sake of it. You're right, it does get my back up a little bit. I apologise if I sounded blunt or rude by anything I said.

    I am not speaking for the people, but let's face it here, Beamdog are attempting to bring in a new audience for Baldur's Gate - more than likely people who have never played ADnD before or even know what a Dark Elf is. You, I and others of this forum will have played BG back in the day (I assume) and we more than likely know the ins and outs of the story. My biggest fear is how new players would play the game if there were super races added. How would they make sense of the racism towards Viconia, if the PC had none of it directed at him? Why would they be burning her and not the PC? This is where inconsistencies in the story come into it.

    It may seem trivial, but BG was the game which originally brought me into PnP. It also aided in my understanding of how the Forgotten Realms works. How confused would I have been if BG:EE was the first time I played it and I could choose Dark Elf as a sub-race? Would it make sense? I'm not sure.

    Also, will they ever play a surface elf? What would be the point of Moon Elves?

    The real drawbacks of playing a Dark Elf is not in the -2 to rep. It's truly about how every other race displays hostility towards them - which can't be replicated in BG. Without this, then they truly are a super race with insane magic resistance.

    If it was any other game I genuinely wouldn't mind super races being an addition. I was actually delighted in IWD2 and NWN2 when I was recognised for being a Dark Elf at the beginning. I'm still a bit bitter it didn't continue but alas.. :)

    Perhaps an Infinity Engine game set completely in the Underdark? That would be interesting.

    ....Also aren't Tieflings the spawn of a demon, not a god? I thought god-children would come under a different category. Could be wrong though.
  • CzarnyCzarny Member Posts: 42
    EntropyXII said:

    ....Also aren't Tieflings the spawn of a demon, not a god? I thought god-children would come under a different category. Could be wrong though.

    Now I'm not too sure either, but AFAIR they are distant scions of an evil outsider of some sort, and demons/devils in particular. D&D is kind of chasing it's own tail between the durzagon, tieflings, half-fiends, draegloths, cambions, and whatever else demonbreed you got. Gods are outsiders though, and Bhaal definitely was evil ;) and it kinda would suit him to either assume demon form to lay with a human or a human form and court a demon. I mean, you would be evil essence made flesh, right?
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    @Czarny - Bhaal being Lawful Evil, then a Devil would be a more appropriate outsider beast wouldn't it? I see your point though and stand corrected.

    I get what you mean - I often get confused between all the different extra-planar beings. It doesn't help that Ed Greenwood changes things a lot either. On the change to 3rd edition, Bhaal's realm was apparently changed from Gehenna, to: The Barrens of Doom and Despair.

    I think I preferred Gehenna.
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
    I dont know why you have this debate.
    Drow was already announce, that is fact.
    Only remaining question is " When ? ".
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
    Jalily said:

    Edvin said:

    Drow was already announce, that is fact.

    Citation needed.
    Disprove this !

    http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/z1af7/we_are_overhaul_games_the_team_behind_baldurs/c60pncv

    http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/z1af7/we_are_overhaul_games_the_team_behind_baldurs/c60q4bn
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    @Jalily: Surprisingly enough, I have to go with Edvin on this - Daigle's statements may be vague on the timeframe, but not on the intention. Now, it's entirely possible the situation has changed since then, but if that's the case, it needs to be clearly stated.
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    I think adding sub-races would add some complexity that isn't really needed, especially when kits are enough when it comes to customization. With that said it would be nice to expand the race menu with at most 4 more races. I figure that if there is room for 11 kits in the menu, that it might be possible to add some more standalone races. However what those races would be is difficult to decide, especially when adding Half-Ogres or Saurials from 2nd edition would be completely out of place for Baldur's Gate.

    But when it comes to the drow, it's easier to just consider them to be evil elves rather than just drow. Especially when normal elves are typically good or neutral. The game treats all drow enemies and Viconia as evil elves. Although duergar aren't considered evil dwarves, they somehow got a duergar identifier.

    Funnily enough sub-races do exist in 2nd edition if you take the Optional Rules supplements in account. But they rely on a complete overhaul of the way races are treated, as each race gets to spend some ability points on racial traits. So a conversion of those subraces to BG would be messy at most and just a name change at the very least.
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    @shawne - Why couldn't he have meant subraces such as "Moon Elf, Wood Elf, Sun Elf, Wild Elf, Gold Dwarf" etc etc. All of those would be easier to implement and not be overpowered.

    People immediately assume subraces = Dark Elf. There are an awful lot of others you know. I don't understand people's fascination with the Drow. It must be Drizzt Do'urden and the MR. It's my only conclusion. I'm partial to Sun Elves to be honest - but I can live without them for Baldur's Gate.
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 2,185
    @EntropyXII: I wondered the same thing about why people here love drow so much. Then on some thread someone said, that drows are elven bad boys and apparently everyone loves elves and also everyone loves bad boys.

    My opinion on this is, if the demand for subraces is this high, make them. Then only include the "safe" races into character creation, with possibility to include the others as mod. Thus almost-official without the necessity of creating new dialog etc - let modders take care of that.
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