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Add single classed versions of some Multi-Classes into the class.ids file

At the moment it is entirely possible to make kits for multi-classes by switching the kit's class.ids value to that of a multi-class. However by doing so the kit description or title doesn't change and the experience is still divided up between two or three classes.

So I'm suggesting that a single classed version be nested within the class.ids, so modders could switch their kits' class.ids value and therefore gain the skill interface of a multi-classed character without the restrictions of a multi-class.

This would be incredibly useful for thief kits that can wield magic, since at the moment the nearest is to make a bard kit. It wouldn't be necessary to make single class versions of all the multi-classes since the skill interface doesn't change all that much for some. So single class versions of the Ranger/Cleric, Mage/Thief and Cleric/Thief would be all that is needed.

This is just a theory on my part and I don't know viable it is. But to me it seems like a relatively simple solution to opening up kit options. For example this would let you make a Shadowdancer/Shadow Walker that could cast shadow magic along with the thieving abilities.

Comments

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    If I understand you correctly I really, really like this!

    So, let me see if I get it. I want to create a "beguiler" kit that can cast mage spells and use thief skills. I could assign the thief/mage ids to, say, my thief kit and he'd get a mage spell progression. is it (something like) this?

    Iiuc I would add a request for a 2da spell progression for each so one could reduce the progression for balance (without having to resort to massive spl use). I understand there is a 2da in bgee that can be appended to change thief skill starting points and acquisition (going by the "technician" kit-don't have bgee).

    This, of course, assumes that altering this 2da wouldn't affect actual m/c progression (they use the progression of each base kit, yes?)
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    @Grammarsalad that's pretty much the idea. It's probably not the most elegant solution, but it seems like the simplest one. Having access to those hardcoded button interfaces is key to making some really intriguing kits.

    At the very least they should rework the kit descriptions of the multi-class which is currently hardcoded. The dual-class accepts the description of the kitted class with the new class, so you can see both but with the multi-class you are stuck with an unchangeable description. If they could remove the hardcoded restriction of the multi-class description with an editable one, we could at least be able to make multi-class kits. However it's not as appealing as making single class kits with the multi-class buttons.
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    Well count me as a supporter then! Have you put these requests in the "externalize"thread? I know you put something there but I didn't have a chance to read it.

    @andreacolombo ?
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Except that PnP specifically forbids multi-classes from having kits...with exception to a handful of demi-human specific ones which are listed as valid multiclass combos.
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582

    Except that PnP specifically forbids multi-classes from having kits...with exception to a handful of demi-human specific ones which are listed as valid multiclass combos.

    It's not really about 'multiclass kits' per se:
    Mordeus said:

    ...Having access to those hardcoded button interfaces is key to making some really intriguing kits....

    It's a potential workaround to allow more freedom for kit creation.
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    @ZanathKariashi It's definitely not my preference, as I think having single class versions of the button interface used currently by some multi-classes is the way to go. But there is some need for the mutli-class kit description having its' hardcode restriction removed.

    It's not just the ability to give a kit to a multi-class that is at play here. It is actually a way to bring in the missing p&p multi-class combinations without having to mess with the hardcoded menu. For example you could take the Cleric/Ranger and make a kit called "Druid" that shifts all the traits of a True Cleric to that of a True Druid and then give it a identifier of a Cleric, so when it is applied to the Cleric/Ranger.... it becomes the Druid/Ranger. The same thing can be done to create the Fighter/Mage/Druid and the Druid/Mage. Currently this can be done but the only thing that doesn't change is the kit title or kit description, so the emersion factor is broken.

    I've been working on a mod that introduces Specialty Priests but certain ones have had to be avoided because they are mutli-class kits such as:

    Sword Dancer/Fighter or Sword Dancer/Ranger
    Luckmaiden/Fighter
    Alaghar/Fighter
    Dhaeraowathila/Fighter
    Sea Druid/Fighter, Sea Druid/Mage, Sea Druid/Ranger, etc...
    Truesword/Fighter
    Norothar/Fighter
    Mischiefmaker/Thief
    Misadventurer/Thief

    Then there are the other demi-human multiclass kits you've alluded to.

    There's really two requests here:
    1. Hiding single class versions of multi-classes within the class.ids, so modders can take advantage of the button interface layout and the ability to combine magic and thieving abilities. Of which can be then blocked out with the relevant opcodes.
    2. Remove the hardcode restriction to the multi-classes' kit description and title so one half/third of it can be edited or updated.

    If both can be done then it's great, if only one can be done then I'll take what I can get.
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