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Alignment Restrictions

EldrythEldryth Member Posts: 56
edited July 2012 in Archive (Feature Requests)
Is there any chance the alignment restrictions on certain classes will be changed? Specifically, the Druid restriction to True Neutral is a little too limiting for me. Later D&D games allowed you to choose an alignment as long as you stayed on one of the neutral axes- Neutral Good or Lawful Neutral. I know those games use a different ruleset, but considering some of the Druid NPCs in BG seem to lean heavily towards evil, I think it would be a good fit. Plus, I'd be a lot more willing to play a Druid if I could be Neutral Good :)

Comments

  • ForseForse Member Posts: 106
    edited July 2012
    Funny, I made a topic about this exact subject a while ago. I totally agree with you. :)

    Edit: Besides, I think it could be fitting to perhaps give Jaheira a NG alignment. I mean despite her sometimes harsh demeanor she seems to have a good heart, being a member of the Harpers and all.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    I agree that Jaheira is definitely Neutral Good, not True Neutral.

    But BGEE will be using 2E rules, so the alignment restrictions won't be changed.
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    Jaheria alligment is debatable, because some of her actions and words supports NG, some TN... Personally, I wouldn't mind her as NG, but there is a lot of good NPCs out there already (in both BG 1 and 2).
  • ForseForse Member Posts: 106
    How come they are so strict on that? I mean, the barbarian, monk and sorcerer, as they are implemented in BG2, are clearly taken from 3rd edition. Alignment restriction seems like a small thing in comparison.
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    Then that should've changed when the game was made, just like those classes were adapted when the game was made. Beamdog/Overhaul can't change that much about the classes I think (or are generally disinclined to do so, is the impression I get) unless it's for rebalancing for low level (and even on that front we haven't had confirmation).

    There's a mod for it somewhere though, which probably still works with the Enhanced Edition.
  • ForseForse Member Posts: 106
    edited August 2012
    Makes me a sad panda if they can't/won't do it :(

    Anywho, it's good that it can be done with a mod, then.
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    Faldorn should be CN or NE... I lean towards CN because she seems more ferally inclined than willing to do evil for evil sake.
  • IchigoRXCIchigoRXC Member Posts: 1,001
    Tanthalas said:

    I agree that Jaheira is definitely Neutral Good, not True Neutral.

    But BGEE will be using 2E rules, so the alignment restrictions won't be changed.

    Since when have the rules ever stopped the creators... I mean look at Minsc's stats for being a ranger :P

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @IchigoRXC And he was supposedly that way from Brain Damage. (Something about getting hit on the head really hard or something.)
  • IchigoRXCIchigoRXC Member Posts: 1,001
    @LadyRhian Surely Boo would have protected him from such a blow to the head
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @IchigoRXC A blow that hard would probably have turned Boo into... goo.
  • EldrythEldryth Member Posts: 56
    IchigoRXC said:

    @LadyRhian Surely Boo would have protected him from such a blow to the head

    That was before he met Boo.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Eldryth Yes, Boo was a companion of his... later times. ;)
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    Not only Jaheira and druids, but I think other classes, like Paladins should have a choice of also being Lawful Neutral. Some of them act very subservient rather than paradigms of Lawful goodness. Also, I think some of the specialist priest classes should probably have their alignments changed a bit... Priest of Helm being chaotic neutral for instance... can someone explain to me how that makes sense?
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Xavloria According to my copy of Faiths and Avatars, only Helm's worshippers can be CN. His priests can be Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral or Neutral, and his specialty priests can only be Lawful Neutral.
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    I'm confused... only Helm's priests can be Chaotic Neutral? Wait what?
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    edited August 2012
    In Helm's faith, the only people that can be Chaotic Neutral are his worshippers, His priests are restricted to Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral and True Neutral, while his specialty priests are further restricted to being only Lawful Neutral.
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    Oh okay I get it now... well then that just reinforces my side point though... since I said priest lol XD
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    No, because a Paladin isn't a specialty priest. It's actually like a separate order working with and under the priesthood at low levels, but at Higher Levels, I am assuming the Paladins are fairly autonomous. And Paladins don't have to worship Helm. They can do Ilmatar, Lathander, Tyr, Tempus, The Red Queen (Goddess of Tactics and Strategy), and Nobanion (Lion God of Beasts, sort of like Aslan). In the Mulhorandi Pantheon, there is Horus-Re and Osiris.
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,498
    @LadyRhian It's like you're Elrond, what next, moon letters?
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Moonmintroll Speak, friend, and enter. ;)
  • Syntia13Syntia13 Member Posts: 514
    @Forse
    Forse said:

    Besides, I think it could be fitting to perhaps give Jaheira a NG alignment. I mean despite her sometimes harsh demeanor she seems to have a good heart, being a member of the Harpers and all.

    Whoever told you that Harpers were the 'good guys'? My impression of them is 'self righteous, judgmental pricks who feel that they, and only they, know what is best for the world'. Sure my view might be skewed by the fact that they tried to bury me alive, murdered two of my friends using me as accessory to that murder, then tried to put my other friend on trial for her perceived 'transgressions', and let's not forget that they operate in secret, trying to pretend they don't exists, just like a worldwide spread mafia... um, no, actually, I don't think my view is skewed at ALL.
    ;)

    Anywho, I think that Jaheira is more LN or LG rather than NG or TN. She obeys the rules of her order, and prefers to work with official authorities, at least that's my impression of her.

  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    Syntia13 said:



    Anywho, I think that Jaheira is more LN or LG rather than NG or TN. She obeys the rules of her order, and prefers to work with official authorities, at least that's my impression of her.

    NG: Being Neutral on that axis does not mean being law-less, it means following only the laws you feel deserve to be followed. (Neutral means selfish, to sway to whichever side benefits you most at the time)
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    @LadyRhian well i only specifically meant for the priest kits in the game though when it came to Helm specifically anyways.

    @LordsDarkKnight185 And I think calling it selfish, although perhaps true in a sense, sounds a bit like twisting the meaning of NG... i mean... CG is kind of the same where as you're actively just following your own moral standpoint, whether or not society agrees... would that also be considered selfish?
  • cloakanddaggercloakanddagger Member Posts: 111
    Lets clear a few things up. Haven't any of you seen "A Beautiful Mind". Yes, Boo did come after he was hit on the head, but lets think about this people. Is Boo really there?
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    Well everyone else sees boo... even though they think he's just an ordinary hamster...
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Xavloria Well, then, that's broken and should be fixed.
  • EleosEleos Member Posts: 48
    I was really hoping to play a Neutral Good Paladin... this makes me sad to know that I can't do it with vanilla bg:ee.

    Why so strict!?

    Huh?

    You're not my mom, Trent!

    :'(
  • ForseForse Member Posts: 106
    edited August 2012
    Drugar said:

    Then that should've changed when the game was made, just like those classes were adapted when the game was made. Beamdog/Overhaul can't change that much about the classes I think (or are generally disinclined to do so, is the impression I get) unless it's for rebalancing for low level (and even on that front we haven't had confirmation).

    There's a mod for it somewhere though, which probably still works with the Enhanced Edition.

    Well, then. To counter that, take a look at the new blackguard class/kit. I mean that's very much third edition, and it's a new change (done with BG: EE). Why can't something as simple as alignments be changed?

    (I do know that anti-paladins existed in AD&D but that's not strictly the same, and they're even using the term 'blackguard' which popped up in 3rd.)

    Syntia13 - Being secretive doesn't mean that you have something ugly to hide, in the Harpers' case it is because they have powerful evil enemies to be wary of. I don't have any text on the Harpers in front of me, but I do know that they work for freedom, justice, aiding common folk in living reasonably good lives, and other causes which are usually seen as 'good'. I have no idea about your personal experiences, but in my book they are pretty much a good organization, working in the shadows when necessary (which, in their case, happens to be most of the time).
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