I know it has been said that dnd rules limit the experience... but I would love that BG3 used any of the adnd rules. Having that I'll go by a epic story set after BG2 and what phillip said once "a diablo 3 kind of graphics".
In my mind, the perfect BG3 would essentially be the 3D visual detail level of Diablo 3 with the party system and turn based gameplay of BG2, with some fixes.
The only story continuity that I see is this: The Bhaalspawn (our protagonist) chose to become a god at the ToB ending, it's irrelevant if a good or evil one. His cult is growing across Faerun. You are a champion of the priesthood (any class goes), you start as a low-lvl char before some trials. After your trials have been concluded, a mysterious group attacks the temple and leaves you as the sole survivor. This is where your journey starts - after hunting down the killers that destroyed your god's temple, you become aware that they were only pawns and that something darker is at play... Apparently some force is very unhappy that the Bhaalspawn got deified.
Air-Five to rule number 10. I still have my NES and Atari plugged in to my T.V. If failure wasnt expected, there would be do drive to better ourselves as gamers.
1) Take all the ingredients that make the BG series so tremendously satisfying and update them technologically.Please, no 3D engine that just calls attention to the fact that the gameworld is artificial--there's a very hollow feeling to that, and it's an immersion-killer. Give us beautifully stylized graphic art in Isometric 2D in the same spirit as the Infinity Engine. Just make the artwork gorgeous, and in higher resolution, with much greater detail. And keep the same D&D ruleset!
2) Develop the story as a prequel to the Bhaalspawn Wars a generation earlier during the Time of Troubles. PC starts at level 1. With all the divinities' factions that are vying against one another at that time, the possibilities for intrigues are very rich indeed. The PC can be recruited to work with Gorion and the Harpers. Or (s)he might throw in with Winski Perorate and whichever factions he may be aligned with, instead. In addition, there are also countless other Bhaalspawn being created during this time. And all of those Bhaalspawn presumably have mentors (themselves typically belonging to organizations). And finally, there are also other gods and goddesses playing out other dramas during the Godswar; and they too may have a stake in either supporting or disrupting Bhaal's plot. So the RP possibilities are enormous here.
3) Keep the setting roughly based in the Western Heartlands of Faerun as a kind of home base, but with many, many quest excursions all throughout Abeir-Toril, since Bhaal's intrigues to 'spawn his mortal progeny' presumably took him all over the globe. I'd love to see some exotic locations featured in the Shining South, for example, including Halruaa. Calimport, Kara-Tur, Chult--there's so many locations that could be featured.
4.) Use current rules for everything but random rolls. I really hated when they did the generic add point system, it takes away from the idea that your main character is special, and is the leader of heroes for a reason.
Yes, because spamming reroll until you finally have high enough stats is soooooo fun.
In all seriousness, BG is pretty much pointbuy, since you can add and subtract scores. The only difference is that there is no fixed amount of points to assign. Instead, you press reroll a bunch of times until you have a pretty high overall score.
With pointbuy, you can actually assign how heroic the player character should be, without having to rely on something as random as the roll of a die (or 18 dice for that matter). If the PC should be heroic (and I agree that he should), then simply assigning a high amount of points would make that character heroic.
Though if the game were 4th or 5th edition, I would probably be a lot less interested. 2nd and 3rd just addressed my interest a lot more. 4th is just a totally different game.
4.) Use current rules for everything but random rolls. I really hated when they did the generic add point system, it takes away from the idea that your main character is special, and is the leader of heroes for a reason.
Yes, because spamming reroll until you finally have high enough stats is soooooo fun.
In all seriousness, BG is pretty much pointbuy, since you can add and subtract scores. The only difference is that there is no fixed amount of points to assign. Instead, you press reroll a bunch of times until you have a pretty high overall score.
With pointbuy, you can actually assign how heroic the player character should be, without having to rely on something as random as the roll of a die (or 18 dice for that matter). If the PC should be heroic (and I agree that he should), then simply assigning a high amount of points would make that character heroic.
Though if the game were 4th or 5th edition, I would probably be a lot less interested. 2nd and 3rd just addressed my interest a lot more. 4th is just a totally different game.
II don't know much about the differences between versions, but I thought 3 was one where most of the big changes were?
3rd kept the 20 levels in, kept the existing base races (though added half-orcs), and kept all existing classes (though thief was renamed rogue, and barbarian, monk and sorcerer were added).
Some things were changed or altered of course:
The THAC0 and AC where low was good got replaced with BaB and AC where high was good, but generally worked out the same. The same applied to saving throws.
Weapon Proficiencies were replaced by feats, which were generally more interesting, and a lot more varied, making them useful for all classes, rather than only warrior types.
Non Weapon Proficiencies were replaced by skills, which are basically the same thing, only they are now gradational rather than black and white. You either had a NWP, or you didn't. And you either succeeded your NWP check, or you didnt. You can continue to improve a skill by spending more points on it each time you level up, and you can have easy and difficult checks.
There was a general experience table, rather than a per-class experience table, which made things like multi-classing a lot easier.
The special ability of Humans was no longer that they could level any class and that they could reach any level. All races could do that now (and multiclassing now worked the same for all races, instead of different for humans). Humans were given actual racial abilities (1 bonus feat, 1 bonus skill point per level) to compensate.
Ability scores are more streamlined. Instead of different values receiving bonuses at different scores, 10-11 now gives +0 to all related stats, 12-13 gives +1, 14-15 gives +2, etc...
That's the major gist of it. The rest of the changes are mostly minor details and clarifications. In a nutshell, 3rd is 2nd streamlined. Converting a 2nd edition character to 3rd edition will take you a few minutes.
4th on the other hand ditched the 20 level system, removed base races, removed base classes, removed the entire concept of feats, removed spells as we know them in 2nd and 3rd edition. In return, each class receives it's very own unique list of abilities and maneuvers. The entire PHB reads like the manual to an MMO. Converting a 3rd edition character to 4th edition is practically impossible.
After reading all 100 posts (I think my eyes are bleeding) I can't fully agree or disagree with one thing except this: Baldur's gate THREE can't be called Baldur's Gate Three unless if it either continues or predates the BG storyline of the Bhaalspawn saga. If it doesn't, then you have to call it something else, or the title won't make any sense. FIRSTLY, you left basically what is a SCAR along Amn and the swordcoast from your travels. Secondly, who's to say that there isn't ONE other being with a minor amount of the taint within them somewhere. If you romance Aerie... both of you have a child... does Solar address this after Melissan's death? What about Abazigal? He had a son as well! What other Bhaalspawn had children that have such a miniscule amount of essence in them where it goes unnoticed?
Personally... THIS is where I think BG3 should should go. The progeny of the progeny of Bhaal! Melissan kept a close watch on Bhaal's children. Did she keep a watch on THOSE children afterwards? DOUBTFUL! I want to play a half-Bhaalspawn that is NOT related to charname, but eventually runs into charname and then all S*** breaks loose. ALSO this allows for you to see the after affects your travels had on the realms!!
I believe that the endearing quality of the BG and IWD series is that they did not hold your hand like so many RPGs do these days. I like having to really worry about my characters in combat.
I remember the first time that I stumbled on the ogre during the Friendly Arms Inn belt quest. He took one swing with his morningstar and chunked one of my party members. I was horrified and awed all at the same time!
I would like a story set in Baldurs Gate itself for most of the game where they actually make a very big city map with loads of areas. You can still leave and explore the area around a bit. But i would love a game set in a truly big city with well a written main quest and lots of different areas with biggish diffrences so you don't want to leave because you have so much to explore. And not 4th please
Personally... THIS is where I think BG3 should should go. The progeny of the progeny of Bhaal! Melissan kept a close watch on Bhaal's children. Did she keep a watch on THOSE children afterwards? DOUBTFUL! I want to play a half-Bhaalspawn that is NOT related to charname, but eventually runs into charname and then all S*** breaks loose. ALSO this allows for you to see the after affects your travels had on the realms!!
@Xavioria - No problem. I really, honestly think BG III will look something similar to what you proposed. It wouldn't be Baldur's Gate without some kind of continuation from the other two games, so more offspring is a wonderful route to take the narrative.
I've also wondered if there was any way the CHARNAME from the other games could choose to walk the earth again, or somehow get cast down from godhood and have to fight to regain his/her former glory. (That might feel like a slap to the face of player accomplishment though...) But I think importing a TOB character into BGIII would feel pretty swell.
@Eleos well what you propose makes sense, because if there ARE people with small amounts of Bhaal essence in them, wouldn't you have to go back down and claim them all? It might be a bit of a recycled concept though, but there are work arounds for that to make it feel like a new experience
I will list a few things I really want out of this game.
1.) Isometric strategy maintained, not excuses like Dragon Age II
2.) Secrets...real secrets that may require some puzzle figuring, Legend of Grimrock has spoiled me.
3.) At least 20+ character kits and Race possibilities. Make each class unique to the point of even changing strategies. This may require a lot of reading of different D&D books.
4.) Use current rules for everything but random rolls. I really hated when they did the generic add point system, it takes away from the idea that your main character is special, and is the leader of heroes for a reason.
5.) Put real effort into counterattack and opportunity animation, keeping the player immersed by offering clicking options during combat.
6.) If there is a war, make it about war, I want armies. One thing I loved about TOB were the battles were huge, much like IWD 2, which had you in the middle of long, hard, chaotic battles. I love story, but a little action goes a long way to testing your party in a jam. Also, make rescuing people and saving lives change possible character options or availability.
7.) Secret characters, that may require choices to decide whether you get the character or not. I loved going on personal quest in Brigandine and finding a wandering swordsman/master wizard.
8.) Give Evil a chance, joining assassin guilds, thief guilds, evil Temples would be nice. Also, maybe the hardest thing of all, give Neutral characters a reason to exist, very few games have ever done this, but it would be great for Druids and Bards.
9.) Make a stronghold available at some point to house all the collected characters and weapons currently not in use. This could be a teleporting castle, given as a prize from your God/Clan/Organization.
10.) This one might not be liked by many, but it makes games fun to replay, time sensitive events. Missions that either expire with the changing days or hours. This would stop sleep spamming and really force hard choices on gamers, maybe even make a failed mission matter which will cause a change in the story. Again very few games have implemented this properly, but when done those games really make a difference.
11.) Make this game Skyrim huge, not in hours obviously because the BG series already does that, but in locations. There are millions of location in D&D, which gives this Dev a chance to bring wonder back to RPG's, I want to feel awe with some of the created areas, IWD did this well, it would be great to see BG do this also.
5. I don't agree with this, if we want a lollipop chainsaw type game, we'll play it ! 10. Yes if it's not abused ! * I agree with everything else.
In terms of Skyrim huge, I think including all of the sword coast from BG1, the entirety of Amn from BG2, Tethyr and Neverwinter as well. I also wouldn't mind going to Sigil so I could pick up a few spells that were available in Torment. I absolutely loved Elesiyum's Tears and axe of torment
@Xavioria - Skyrim huge makes me afraid that the largeness of the maps means scarcity of content. The game we are describing would be freaking BGI & BGII combined, plus. That is a lot of content to reach the same level of character per square inch the curernt games have.
This is a reasonable concern, and time constraints make this a real problem... hmmm... and @Eleos YOU CHANGED YOUR PIC, I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE ANYMORE!!!! AHHH!!
@Eleos YOU CHANGED YOUR PIC, I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE ANYMORE!!!! AHHH!!
I can change it back if it is going to cause gnashing of teeth and rioting in the streets.
But seriously, one of the things I think the BG series did really well is the amount of content. There really is something new and exciting just around every corner. It makes exploring a real joy. Putting BG III at risk of not having the same feeling is just a little unsettling for me. If it is huge, I will expect the same attention to detail regardless of size.
If they don't go crazy on the graphics, don't spend 90% of their time to make everything look super pretty and do not waste time implementing a resource-hungry mandatory multiplayer system - like pretty much every game developer nowadays- they could focus & create a LOT of interesting content.
You know, honestly, I don't want a Baldur's Gate 3. The story has been told. Either the character is a god, evermore to be so, or he chose mortality, free from such nonsense. Everything has been told as well as it should be. Making a 3 would be a cash grab from a legendary franchise.
Now, I would love to see a new game with any manner of good thing. I just don't like the idea of leaching off of BG. Make something new, don't squeeze the game until it's dry!
A: For it to never exist. We saw what happened when a Baldur's Gate game was created outside of the Bhaalspawn story, and it's name was "Dark Alliance". *cringe*
B: There can be no Baldur's Gate game that does not take place in the Bhaalspawn story. As that story is completed with Baldur's Gate 1, Tales of the Sword Coast, Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn, and Throne of Bhaal, what is being referred to as "Baldur's Gate 3" is actually just an RPG that utilized the infinity engine, but is not related to the series, much like Icewind Dale. (Which was a fantastic game).
Short version: Pass on Baldur's Gate III, but make another game using the Infinity Engine.
Short version: Pass on Baldur's Gate III, but make another game using the Infinity Engine.
I couldn't agree with you more, I would be VERY happy with an Icewind Dale 3 that includes some elements from Baldur's 1&2. An Icewind Dale + Baldurs gate 1&2 hybrid using an updated infinity engine sounds like heaven to me.
Comments
The Bhaalspawn (our protagonist) chose to become a god at the ToB ending, it's irrelevant if a good or evil one. His cult is growing across Faerun. You are a champion of the priesthood (any class goes), you start as a low-lvl char before some trials. After your trials have been concluded, a mysterious group attacks the temple and leaves you as the sole survivor. This is where your journey starts - after hunting down the killers that destroyed your god's temple, you become aware that they were only pawns and that something darker is at play... Apparently some force is very unhappy that the Bhaalspawn got deified.
1) Take all the ingredients that make the BG series so tremendously satisfying and update them technologically. Please, no 3D engine that just calls attention to the fact that the gameworld is artificial--there's a very hollow feeling to that, and it's an immersion-killer. Give us beautifully stylized graphic art in Isometric 2D in the same spirit as the Infinity Engine. Just make the artwork gorgeous, and in higher resolution, with much greater detail. And keep the same D&D ruleset!
2) Develop the story as a prequel to the Bhaalspawn Wars a generation earlier during the Time of Troubles. PC starts at level 1. With all the divinities' factions that are vying against one another at that time, the possibilities for intrigues are very rich indeed. The PC can be recruited to work with Gorion and the Harpers. Or (s)he might throw in with Winski Perorate and whichever factions he may be aligned with, instead. In addition, there are also countless other Bhaalspawn being created during this time. And all of those Bhaalspawn presumably have mentors (themselves typically belonging to organizations). And finally, there are also other gods and goddesses playing out other dramas during the Godswar; and they too may have a stake in either supporting or disrupting Bhaal's plot. So the RP possibilities are enormous here.
3) Keep the setting roughly based in the Western Heartlands of Faerun as a kind of home base, but with many, many quest excursions all throughout Abeir-Toril, since Bhaal's intrigues to 'spawn his mortal progeny' presumably took him all over the globe. I'd love to see some exotic locations featured in the Shining South, for example, including Halruaa. Calimport, Kara-Tur, Chult--there's so many locations that could be featured.
In all seriousness, BG is pretty much pointbuy, since you can add and subtract scores. The only difference is that there is no fixed amount of points to assign. Instead, you press reroll a bunch of times until you have a pretty high overall score.
With pointbuy, you can actually assign how heroic the player character should be, without having to rely on something as random as the roll of a die (or 18 dice for that matter). If the PC should be heroic (and I agree that he should), then simply assigning a high amount of points would make that character heroic.
Though if the game were 4th or 5th edition, I would probably be a lot less interested. 2nd and 3rd just addressed my interest a lot more. 4th is just a totally different game.
3rd kept the 20 levels in, kept the existing base races (though added half-orcs), and kept all existing classes (though thief was renamed rogue, and barbarian, monk and sorcerer were added).
Some things were changed or altered of course:
The THAC0 and AC where low was good got replaced with BaB and AC where high was good, but generally worked out the same. The same applied to saving throws.
Weapon Proficiencies were replaced by feats, which were generally more interesting, and a lot more varied, making them useful for all classes, rather than only warrior types.
Non Weapon Proficiencies were replaced by skills, which are basically the same thing, only they are now gradational rather than black and white. You either had a NWP, or you didn't. And you either succeeded your NWP check, or you didnt. You can continue to improve a skill by spending more points on it each time you level up, and you can have easy and difficult checks.
There was a general experience table, rather than a per-class experience table, which made things like multi-classing a lot easier.
The special ability of Humans was no longer that they could level any class and that they could reach any level. All races could do that now (and multiclassing now worked the same for all races, instead of different for humans). Humans were given actual racial abilities (1 bonus feat, 1 bonus skill point per level) to compensate.
Ability scores are more streamlined. Instead of different values receiving bonuses at different scores, 10-11 now gives +0 to all related stats, 12-13 gives +1, 14-15 gives +2, etc...
That's the major gist of it. The rest of the changes are mostly minor details and clarifications. In a nutshell, 3rd is 2nd streamlined. Converting a 2nd edition character to 3rd edition will take you a few minutes.
4th on the other hand ditched the 20 level system, removed base races, removed base classes, removed the entire concept of feats, removed spells as we know them in 2nd and 3rd edition. In return, each class receives it's very own unique list of abilities and maneuvers. The entire PHB reads like the manual to an MMO. Converting a 3rd edition character to 4th edition is practically impossible.
Personally... THIS is where I think BG3 should should go. The progeny of the progeny of Bhaal! Melissan kept a close watch on Bhaal's children. Did she keep a watch on THOSE children afterwards? DOUBTFUL! I want to play a half-Bhaalspawn that is NOT related to charname, but eventually runs into charname and then all S*** breaks loose. ALSO this allows for you to see the after affects your travels had on the realms!!
I remember the first time that I stumbled on the ogre during the Friendly Arms Inn belt quest. He took one swing with his morningstar and chunked one of my party members. I was horrified and awed all at the same time!
I think I totally just became a game designer o.0
I've also wondered if there was any way the CHARNAME from the other games could choose to walk the earth again, or somehow get cast down from godhood and have to fight to regain his/her former glory. (That might feel like a slap to the face of player accomplishment though...) But I think importing a TOB character into BGIII would feel pretty swell.
10. Yes if it's not abused !
*
I agree with everything else.
Just voicing a minor concern is all.
and
@Eleos YOU CHANGED YOUR PIC, I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE ANYMORE!!!! AHHH!!
But seriously, one of the things I think the BG series did really well is the amount of content. There really is something new and exciting just around every corner. It makes exploring a real joy. Putting BG III at risk of not having the same feeling is just a little unsettling for me. If it is huge, I will expect the same attention to detail regardless of size.
Now, I would love to see a new game with any manner of good thing. I just don't like the idea of leaching off of BG. Make something new, don't squeeze the game until it's dry!
A: For it to never exist. We saw what happened when a Baldur's Gate game was created outside of the Bhaalspawn story, and it's name was "Dark Alliance". *cringe*
B: There can be no Baldur's Gate game that does not take place in the Bhaalspawn story. As that story is completed with Baldur's Gate 1, Tales of the Sword Coast, Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn, and Throne of Bhaal, what is being referred to as "Baldur's Gate 3" is actually just an RPG that utilized the infinity engine, but is not related to the series, much like Icewind Dale. (Which was a fantastic game).
Short version: Pass on Baldur's Gate III, but make another game using the Infinity Engine.