Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit nwn.beamdog.com to make an order. NWN:EE FAQ is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE, PST:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition no longer for sale - Ouch!

MatthewMatthew Member Posts: 21
edited June 2013 in Android (Archive)
Looks like legal problems have put an indefinite halt on sales of BB:EE. I guess we can stop worrying about when it is coming out for Android ...

Comments

  • ShullfinnShullfinn Member Posts: 12
    It was never going to come out anyhow. I'm thinking it wasn't a huge seller, and the "contractual issues" had to do with money. If the itunes version wasn't making money, there is just no way the Android version was ever going to be completed.

    It a real shame though, as I'm sure they work hard on this product. It's painful to watch a dream die...

    I think they missed an opportunity on the Android though, because that's where the TRUE GEEKS are at.

  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    well. I still hope they will somehow fix those contractual issues (can be a major PITA) and deliver.

  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    edited June 2013
    Shullfinn said:

    I think they missed an opportunity on the Android though, because that's where the TRUE GEEKS are at.

    That's very matter-o-fact. I think "TRUE GEEK" is in the eye of the beholder ego-centric. The Linux community, mainly the desktop variety, consider themselves the true geeks, and they have yet to even get much more beyond a tweet or two, with no hint as to whether or not a native version is even being worked on. The Windows users and Mac users each think they are the "true geeks." I think trying to group something like "true geek" into the platform they use is silly.

    To the point at hand, however, your thoughts are very pessimistic. There is no word as such, in fact most of the BGEE Team who are posting are saying that they are doing everything they can to resolve the issues. Have some patience.

    Another Friedrich Nietzsche quote:
    "Being able to wait is so hard that the greatest poets did not disdain to make the inability to wait the theme of their poetry."
    If you believe all hope is lost for an Android version, one must wonder why you are still here.

  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    @Trooodon80 - Overhaul gave us the best of all gifts...hope.

    (a worthless Like to the geek, that guesses where is this quote from)

  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    @Southpaw, wild stab in the dark, but I believe I know this one.

  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    Troodon80 said:

    @Southpaw, wild stab in the dark, but I believe I know this one.

    @Troodon80 - Erm...sorry, no. It's not a game. It's a book reference.

  • ShullfinnShullfinn Member Posts: 12
    edited June 2013
    Troodon80 said:

    Shullfinn said:

    I think they missed an opportunity on the Android though, because that's where the TRUE GEEKS are at.

    That's very matter-o-fact. I think "TRUE GEEK" is in the eye of the beholder ego-centric. The Linux community, mainly the desktop variety, consider themselves the true geeks, and they have yet to even get much more beyond a tweet or two, with no hint as to whether or not a native version is even being worked on. The Windows users and Mac users each think they are the "true geeks." I think trying to group something like "true geek" into the platform they use is silly.

    To the point at hand, however, your thoughts are very pessimistic. There is no word as such, in fact most of the BGEE Team who are posting are saying that they are doing everything they can to resolve the issues. Have some patience.

    Another Friedrich Nietzsche quote:
    "Being able to wait is so hard that the greatest poets did not disdain to make the inability to wait the theme of their poetry."
    If you believe all hope is lost for an Android version, one must wonder why you are still here.

    Poetry? Are you kidding me?

    I was talking about tablets, not computers or operating systems. However, anyone who uses a mac or an ipad isn't a geek. Mac and iPad users just want something that works, and can't be bothered to figure out HOW it works. Every Mac user, I ever met, actually believed that their machine was invulnerable to viruses! Android users are much more likely to modify their operating systems, root their kindles, add memory, or pull the back off their tablet to see how it works.

    As for being pessimistic: I think you are being naïve. It's been almost 6 months since the mac release, which was more than enough time. They weren't re-writing it from scratch you know... They're not flow charting. they're not redesigning the graphics and animations... Most of the code/script would still be good, if any had actually been written.

    I think the game didn't sell as well as they hoped, and their publishing partner isn't happy with their cut of the money. That's a big legal problem. I'm sorry if you're disappointed, but I've seen this before, it doesn't usually end well.

    THE FACT THAT THEY PULLED THE GAME IS REALLY BAD NEWS. THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE AN CLUE AS TO WHEN, IF EVER, IT WILL BE RELEASED AGAIN, NEVER MIND THE ANDROID. What part of that are you NOT getting?

    Fredjo
  • GodKaiserHellGodKaiserHell Member Posts: 398
    edited July 2016
     

    Post edited by GodKaiserHell on
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    @Shullfinn, as amusing as I think your opinion is overall, I must respectfully disagree.

    You have no more of an idea if or when the game will be released on the Android than anyone else who is speculating. The difference is that some people are holding out some hope, having some patience while the legal troubles are being explored. Others are proclaiming absolute disaster and that nothing more is going to happen. When it is officially stated, then you can take it as fact. The current news is bad, but there is no more word about it.

    If we are going to take a 'rocks fall, everyone dies' approach, and everything is hopeless, then why are you here? Since it is so obviously hopeless, then everyone may as well abandon ship. You lead, some of the rest of us will hang back and wait for official news.

    As for the quote, I selected it because it was the person. If you recall, a quote from Friedrich Nietzsche is used at the start of Baldur's Gate.

    And naïve. Charming. I might be. In my favour, I consider myself slightly optimistic in this case (which is strange considering that I'm British and usually quite cynical and pessimistic). Widely speculated is the Atari bankruptcy, nothing to do with how well the game is selling. You'll notice that Atari is still selling their own version; this further backs the notion that the game is selling well enough that Atari thought it could make money from it during the bankruptcy. When Atari sells the game itself, it will likely get a larger percentage.

    On the other hand, speculation is just that. The difference is optimism and pessimism. I've seen similar things with other developers, but none of them I have seen have been in the situation where the publisher is filing for bankruptcy. If what you were saying was the official news, I would agree.

    Moomintrolltypo_tillyAristillius
  • ShullfinnShullfinn Member Posts: 12
    edited June 2013

    Shullfinn said:

    It's been almost 6 months since the mac release, which was more than enough time.

    Shullfinn said:


    Most of the code/script would still be good, if any had actually been written.

    How do you know that?


    uhhh... because I'm a programmer.... you don't throw out the baby with the bath water... you never go back to line one.


    Post edited by Shullfinn on
  • ShullfinnShullfinn Member Posts: 12
    Troodon80 said:

    @Shullfinn, as amusing as I think your opinion is overall, I must respectfully disagree.

    You have no more of an idea if or when the game will be released on the Android than anyone else who is speculating. The difference is that some people are holding out some hope, having some patience while the legal troubles are being explored. Others are proclaiming absolute disaster and that nothing more is going to happen. When it is officially stated, then you can take it as fact. The current news is bad, but there is no more word about it.

    If we are going to take a 'rocks fall, everyone dies' approach, and everything is hopeless, then why are you here? Since it is so obviously hopeless, then everyone may as well abandon ship. You lead, some of the rest of us will hang back and wait for official news.

    As for the quote, I selected it because it was the person. If you recall, a quote from Friedrich Nietzsche is used at the start of Baldur's Gate.

    And naïve. Charming. I might be. In my favour, I consider myself slightly optimistic in this case (which is strange considering that I'm British and usually quite cynical and pessimistic). Widely speculated is the Atari bankruptcy, nothing to do with how well the game is selling. You'll notice that Atari is still selling their own version; this further backs the notion that the game is selling well enough that Atari thought it could make money from it during the bankruptcy. When Atari sells the game itself, it will likely get a larger percentage.

    On the other hand, speculation is just that. The difference is optimism and pessimism. I've seen similar things with other developers, but none of them I have seen have been in the situation where the publisher is filing for bankruptcy. If what you were saying was the official news, I would agree.

    No more of an idea if or when the game will be released? The developers don't even know if, never mind when! Depending on the platform they were using, it could have come out months ago. Corona SDK, for example, is cross-platform, which allows both ios and android. Most programming languages are similar. LUA and Actionscript are almost the same for me. I don't know what they were developing in but, unless they started from utter scratch, it should have been done by now.

    If the reason is Bankruptcy, then the problem is even more serious, as this sort of legal wrangling could take forever.

    Let me tell you something: In the business world, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. On the off chance there is still a hope for the Android version; I would suggest you complain a bit more, and praise a little less. Get it?

  • GodKaiserHellGodKaiserHell Member Posts: 398
    edited July 2016
     

    Post edited by GodKaiserHell on
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    Shullfinn said:

    Most programming languages are similar.

    I can't even begin to tell you how wrong you are. I can only assume that, being the true programmer that you are, you know that C/C++ looks and behaves entirely different from Haskell? VB.NET and C++ don't even look or act remotely similar at their core, because C++ is much closer to the actual operating system than something that is wrapped like an onion. The .NET Framework can do quite a lot of the things that C++ can do, but usually inefficiently by comparison. The engine is C/C++. Something like Corona SDK is layered on top of it. Why would any developer use a wrapper/framework if the original code didn't use one? And if they did need to, perhaps you can understand why it would take so long? I doubt you would care either way.


    But how is any of that relevant to whether or not they're going to get out of the legal wrangling? I don't even understand where you are going with this tangent.
    Shullfinn said:

    I don't know what they were developing in but, unless they started from utter scratch, it should have been done by now.

    I can only assume that you are secretly on the development team, and that you know how far along the progress is? If so, perhaps you can update the rest of us as to the whole legal wrangling? No? Oh well.
    Shullfinn said:

    If the reason is Bankruptcy, then the problem is even more serious, as this sort of legal wrangling could take forever.

    Yes, it is very serious. Serious enough that it was pulled from the store. But the only one here who is saying "it'll never happen, everything is doomed, dooomed, dooooooooomed," is you.
    Shullfinn said:

    Let me tell you something: In the business world, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. On the off chance there is still a hope for the Android version; I would suggest you complain a bit more, and praise a little less. Get it?

    ... No, I don't get it. How, exactly, is demoralising the development team more than they already are supposed to be a good thing? I might understand it is that negativity was aimed at the culprit, but this is just general negativity that seems to be aimed at anyone and everyone.

    Also, do you treat everyone like a child, or is this only an internet tough-guy thing? I know all about business, I've worked all my life in business; I'm close to retirement, in fact. I'm not seeing how that, or what you are saying is relevant. Everything you are announcing as 'fact,' being the true geek that you are, you obviously know best, is—I am afraid to say—purely speculation. Negative, demoralising speculation. If you were a 'real' programmer, you would know that having people 'demoralise you into hurrying things up' usually has a tendency to do exactly the opposite.

    I would like the Android version as much as the next. If it turns out that the Android version will never see the light of day, I will be most disappointed. But I'm not going to jump to some inane conclusion and start telling people something along the lines of "onward, to futility," or "we are all doomed," or, my personal favourite, "oh, what is the point."

    No, I'm not going to complain more. It's in Overhauls hands and, by the sounds of it, they are as disappointed as anyone after putting in a considerable amount of effort. They are doing what they can to resolve it. Perhaps it won't be resolved, but complaining will do nothing to speed things up. I would rather lend support (or 'praise' as you call it) than try and demoralise everyone. If you honestly believe that everyone should take a 'complain more and praise less' approach, then I don't think you really understand how business, programming careers, or careers in general work quite as well as you seem to think. Trust me when I say that, as someone who is British and has an innate ability called "Being British*" it really does mean something when I say that complaining less is much better under the circumstances. For everyone. Do you know how tiresome it is for a fellow onlooker? It's quite tiresome, let me tell you.

    * The most accurate description would be:
    Being British

    This innate ability gives the user the power to complain about the following: council tax, neighbours, neighbours' dogs, the stink of the city (especially near Sainsbury's in north-east-ish London (Chingford), there's a really bad smell almost all along that street, bad drains or something, I don't even know why I pay council tax), the neighbours parking across the users' driveway, the people urinating on the foot path, the drug dealing down the road, the blaring of police sirens, the cost of living and taxation, Americans and French people (that is a joke), politicians, the country, and a whole lot of other stuff.

    Targets within the area of effect suffer penalties to Intelligence and Willpower.

    As well as -8 penalty to the above-mentioned attributes, the target must make a saving throw vs. Breath or be stunned for four rounds. If the target is not also British and the attribute penalty to willpower becomes lower than zero, the target loses the will to live.

    This ability is always active. Other British people are immune to the negative effects, and in have a 75% chance of gaining a bonus to Constitution and Strength.


    I suppose I should stop before I actually start to complain about the complaining. Good luck to you! I hope you are wrong, for the sake of all the 'true geeks' out there. :)

    mch202typo_tillyAristillius
  • ShullfinnShullfinn Member Posts: 12
    edited June 2013
    Troodon80 said:

    Shullfinn said:

    Most programming languages are similar.

    I can't even begin to tell you how wrong you are. I can only assume that, being the true programmer that you are, you know that C/C++ looks and behaves entirely different from Haskell? VB.NET and C++ don't even look or act remotely similar at their core, because C++ is much closer to the actual operating system than something that is wrapped like an onion. The .NET Framework can do quite a lot of the things that C++ can do, but usually inefficiently by comparison. The engine is C/C++. Something like Corona SDK is layered on top of it. Why would any developer use a wrapper/framework if the original code didn't use one? And if they did need to, perhaps you can understand why it would take so long? I doubt you would care either way.


    * The most accurate description would be:
    Being British

    This innate ability gives the user the power to complain about the following: council tax, neighbours, neighbours' dogs, the stink of the city (especially near Sainsbury's in north-east-ish London (Chingford), there's a really bad smell almost all along that street, bad drains or something, I don't even know why I pay council tax), the neighbours parking across the users' driveway, the people urinating on the foot path, the drug dealing down the road, the blaring of police sirens, the cost of living and taxation, Americans and French people (that is a joke), politicians, the country, and a whole lot of other stuff..


    I suppose I should stop before I actually start to complain about the complaining. Good luck to you! I hope you are wrong, for the sake of all the 'true geeks' out there. :)
    You are not the only programmer here, that is, if you are one at all. I'm 52 years old, and have been programming most of my life. Yes, C++ looks different then Haskell. What is your point? I never said that all programming languages look the same. Your sudden knowledge is astounding, and worthless. REGARDLESS OF WHICH LANGAUGE YOU USE THE BASIC CONCEPT IS THE SAME. ANY PROGRAMMER WILL TELL YOU THAT, ONCE YOU LEARN ONE LANGAUGE, THE REST COME EASY. Regardless of which langauge you use, the basic logic remains the same. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT?

    "If you were a 'real' programmer, you would know that having people 'demoralise you into hurrying things up' usually has a tendency to do exactly the opposite."

    REAL programmers are put under pressure all the time. We always work with deadlines...


    The reason that I believe it should not have taken so long is that, 6 months ago, the development team stated that the Android version was close to completion, and would be released shortly after the iPad version. Then they said there was a unforseen problem dealing with compressed files, as the Android os doesn't handle them well. If you're a true programmer, do you see what I'm getting at?

    If they were re-writing from scratch, you might have a point, but they would not need to do that. They would need to decompress the files and re-write just the lines of code that dealt with those files. Yes, that would be harder than it seems, but it wouldn't take 6 months, not if they were honestly working on it. Debugging would likly take more time then the fix, as every time you fix something, you break something else.

    While I am not familar with this game's code, I am knowledgable in several programming langauges, and this is the kind of thing I do. I believe I would have had it repaired inside 4 months, and that is why I think they weren't working on it as hard as they claimed (whenever they botherd to make a statement).

    Do you have any knowledge, or relevent skills, that would help prove your side of this debate?

    THE GAME ISN'T COMING OUT. JUST LIVE WITH IT.

    As for complaning; YOU picked this little fight with me seververal posts ago, because I had the nerve to suggest that Android lovers were true geeks that would have appreciated BG more tha ipad people. I guess you have no respect for other peoples opinions? Oh, that's right, you're British.

    As for being British: What the hell does that have to do with anything??? However, it just so happens that I work for British Company that does business world wide. I design programs AND apps. Funny, how the Britts came to me, an American....

    Post edited by Shullfinn on
    TeethOnTheEyeSirK8
  • ShullfinnShullfinn Member Posts: 12

    Shullfinn said:

    Shullfinn said:

    It's been almost 6 months since the mac release, which was more than enough time.

    Shullfinn said:


    Most of the code/script would still be good, if any had actually been written.

    How do you know that?


    uhhh... because I'm a programmer.... you don't throw out the baby with the bath water... you never go back to line one.


    and?

    Do you know something about Infinity Engine?

    We're discuusing coding here. Do you believe there is something special about that engine? If you have knowledge as to why that engine would harder to work with please share....

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438
    Tempers are running a little hot in this thread. If people can't discuss the topic civilly, this thread will be closed. If you have questions about the site rules, feel free to read them.

    MoomintrollDJLongstride
  • TeethOnTheEyeTeethOnTheEye Member Posts: 6
    I'm a programmer and I had big issues with games, none of then had to be rewritten , sometimes a component, sometimes nobody knew how to fix it. BUT there's a possibility that overhaul started each version from scratch though this would be very amateur

  • cmk24cmk24 Member Posts: 605
    Shullfinn said:

    Then they said there was a unforseen problem dealing with compressed files, as the Android os doesn't handle them well....

    If they were re-writing from scratch, you might have a point, but they would not need to do that. They would need to decompress the files and re-write just the lines of code that dealt with those files. Yes, that would be harder than it seems, but it wouldn't take 6 months, not if they were honestly working on it. Debugging would likly take more time then the fix, as every time you fix something, you break something else.

    I was under the impression that the compression problem was small compared to the render problem (e.g. some spells made the game run too slow on tablets, including the ipad build). Because of this, and intel graphics cards not running the PC version of the game, they are re-writing the graphics renderer from scratch, or very close to scratch. (see http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/13955/if-you-were-holding-your-breath-for-the-android-release-stop/p4 @Fungostar posts part way down the page.) This way the renderer will be optimised on all platforms, including android. Personally I can see how a render re-write could take several months to make, and then a long time in QA to debug.

    alnair
  • ShullfinnShullfinn Member Posts: 12
    edited June 2013
    cmk24 said:

    Shullfinn said:

    I was under the impression that the compression problem was small compared to the render problem (e.g. some spells made the game run too slow on tablets, including the ipad build). Because of this, and intel graphics cards not running the PC version of the game, they are re-writing the graphics renderer from scratch, or very close to scratch. (see http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/13955/if-you-were-holding-your-breath-for-the-android-release-stop/p4 @Fungostar posts part way down the page.) This way the renderer will be optimised on all platforms, including android. Personally I can see how a render re-write could take several months to make, and then a long time in QA to debug.

    ahhh... It was my understanding that the render problem was caused by the compression problem, as the compression caused problems with the loading.

  • MystraTheMageMystraTheMage Member Posts: 71
    GooseFrabba........ What will be will be, someone has already released a GemRB equivalent that mounts the game better and is easier to install. Just google play Baldurs Gate. P.s I know it doesn't have the extra content or tweeks, but it is better then nothing. P.ss DnD Online is free to play on PC and if you really want a great Mobile gaming experience, Magic The Gathering Planewalkers 2013 is available for android next month! Or i. true text based dnd, google Arrdwolf, it is an amazing Mud game, which is free. Go go go, positively positive people put political party powers past performance presets.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438
    Shullfinn said:

    cmk24 said:

    Shullfinn said:

    I was under the impression that the compression problem was small compared to the render problem (e.g. some spells made the game run too slow on tablets, including the ipad build). Because of this, and intel graphics cards not running the PC version of the game, they are re-writing the graphics renderer from scratch, or very close to scratch. (see http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/13955/if-you-were-holding-your-breath-for-the-android-release-stop/p4 @Fungostar posts part way down the page.) This way the renderer will be optimised on all platforms, including android. Personally I can see how a render re-write could take several months to make, and then a long time in QA to debug.

    ahhh... It was my understanding that the render problem was caused by the compression problem, as the compression caused problems with the loading.

    Strictly speaking they're both problems that needed fixing. :)

  • MatthewMatthew Member Posts: 21
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    @Matthew, it's been a while since I looked at this thread. Nice to know optimism paid off instead of pessimism.

    It should only be a matter of time until the Android release. Can't wait.

Sign In or Register to comment.