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Assembling the "C" Team

NarcissistNarcissist Member Posts: 65
Whether their class just isn't very good in BG1, their statistics aren't great, or if you just don't like their personality. There are a lot of NPC's that go overlooked. What I'd like to know is who are the worst of the worst? What would be the worst party you can assemble from the list of NPC's, and what class would their noble leader be?

Illustair
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Comments

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    rasaad, garrick, xan, safana, viconia, wizard slayer. good luck! at least i gave you all the roles :)

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    From a purely stat/function perspective, I think the weakest NPCs are Tiax, Rasaad, Dynaheir, Quayle, Garrick and Khalid:

    Tiax: Second-lowest Wisdom score among the game's clerics.

    Khalid: Constant morale failures.

    Dynaheir: The only mage blocked from two schools of magic.

    Garrick: Low Intelligence means he gets into trouble when trying to scribe spells, plus incredibly low Constitution.

    Rasaad: Given BG1's cap, you just can't get Rasaad to the point where monks become viable party members - he's easily killed and can't land enough hits/do enough damage.

    Quayle: The worst cleric in the game (10 Wisdom).

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    edited October 2013
    I'd say Garrick, Faldorn, Rasaad (classes are weak in BG1), Xan (due to very low con with dagger prof, but he's generally not a weak NPC, just the least appealing mage overall) and Alora (not weak either, but late game sucks for thieves).

    Garrick would be the archer, Faldorn and Rasaad would have to frontline, and for half the game, you wouldn't have a thief. Druid as only divine caster and getting her mid game isn't ideal either. Plus Garrick would have to depend on spells/amulet charges (no Elven Chain) and use all his spells just to make up for having no armor.

    Charname would be either a paladin or a cleric/thief to fill in for Faldorn and Alora in the first chapters.

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Garrick, Skie and Eldoth are actually a trio with a bit of interaction. They're also annoying and about as useful collectively as three holes in your head.

    Quayle is much underestimated. He's had a Dex buff for EE to make him a legal illusionist. He gets so many spells in total, more than anyone in the game.

    Quartz
  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    shawne said:


    Khalid: Constant morale failures.

    I barely ever have his morale failures, and he is often competing with me to have the most kills. he can be a good frontliner with high ac so he doesn't take damage and run as well as a good archer. I wouldn't include him in such a list. I don't think he ran a single time in my last playthrough and he was frontlining

    rexregBaldursCatQuartzSCARY_WIZARD
  • FelspawnFelspawn Member Posts: 161
    does Wisdom really have that much of an impact on a cleric's abilties aside from missing out on a few spells per level? Same goes with Int and a mage. they just dont seem to have the same impact as say Str and a fighter.

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Skie is an incredible archer and her stats are pretty good. She also doesn't mess up her thief skills with pickpocket like Alora. Eldoth is incredibly versatile. He's a decent party leader with no *outstanding* stats, but - considering dex gloves - it's something you can work with. Especially as archer duo (Skie short bow, Eldoth long bow), they are worth waiting/keeping slots open for. Plus you only need to take Eldoth through Cloakwood, after that, you get access to the Elven Chain. Garrick is gimped much longer, even with Dorn in the party.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,748
    edited October 2013

    shawne said:


    Khalid: Constant morale failures.

    I barely ever have his morale failures, and he is often competing with me to have the most kills. he can be a good frontliner with high ac so he doesn't take damage and run as well as a good archer. I wouldn't include him in such a list. I don't think he ran a single time in my last playthrough and he was frontlining

    His chance at morale failures is no different than Kagain's. At least Khalid has the decency to run. Kagain goes berserk hehe.

    I don't view any of the following NPC's as bad but if I had to choose 5 of them I'd go with

    Jester (it doesn't really compliment the following party much)

    Faldorn
    Skie
    Eldoth
    Garrick
    Rasaad

    (Honourable mentions go to Xan and Xzar).

    Post edited by elminster on
    TJ_Hooker
  • JLeeJLee Member Posts: 648
    edited October 2013
    I find Garrick to be very useful. You better have a few copies of a scroll for him to learn it, but he saves you enough money in identification to make up for it. Arm him with the crossbow of speed and he alternates between roles of secondary caster, ranged attack, and designated fear remover. I find him to be a part of a powerful party, not a weak one.

    He is pretty annoying though, imo, so I get that argument completely.

    I have a hard time including any of the early NPCs on such a list. They all have their applications, with the exception of Rasaad of course. He is a complete liability as far as I am concerned.

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Faldorn, Tiax, Dynaheir, Eldoth, Quayle

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Khalid is by no means C team. A combination of average Str, decent Dex and decent Con make him a good candidate for a tank. His THAC0 and damage don't really suffer due to middling Str as him being a pure fighter allows him longsword mastery, immediately putting him on par with Minsc for THAC0.

    Rasaad is for now a weak NPC due to his late-blooming class, but will doubtless come good in BG2:EE.

  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806

    Skie is an incredible archer and her stats are pretty good. She also doesn't mess up her thief skills with pickpocket like Alora. Eldoth is incredibly versatile. He's a decent party leader with no *outstanding* stats, but - considering dex gloves - it's something you can work with. Especially as archer duo (Skie short bow, Eldoth long bow), they are worth waiting/keeping slots open for. Plus you only need to take Eldoth through Cloakwood, after that, you get access to the Elven Chain. Garrick is gimped much longer, even with Dorn in the party.

    Wait wait wait.... ELVEN CHAIN???!!!!! In bg1?! Am really missing something without dorns quest?

    jackjackEudaemonium
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,247
  • onanonan Member Posts: 223
    I hate to say this but Khalid is a very good fighter. Slap the Gauntlets of Ogre Power on him and with long sword mastery he rocks. But effectiveness aside, I simply don't like him.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    my personal list is as follows:

    Garrick - Annoying and only marginally useful
    Zan - terminally annoying to the point where he can cause the rest of the party (and the player) to want to commit suicide
    Rasaad - Just can't get useful at lower levels. Isn't a front liner and isn't a caster/thief. He's somewhere in the middle and less than useful because of it.
    Quayle - really poor wisdom
    Dynahier - Blocked from two schools of magic AND tied to another NPC (albeit a good one)

  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Rasaad x 6
    meagloth said:

    Skie is an incredible archer and her stats are pretty good. She also doesn't mess up her thief skills with pickpocket like Alora. Eldoth is incredibly versatile. He's a decent party leader with no *outstanding* stats, but - considering dex gloves - it's something you can work with. Especially as archer duo (Skie short bow, Eldoth long bow), they are worth waiting/keeping slots open for. Plus you only need to take Eldoth through Cloakwood, after that, you get access to the Elven Chain. Garrick is gimped much longer, even with Dorn in the party.

    Wait wait wait.... ELVEN CHAIN???!!!!! In bg1?! Am really missing something without dorns quest?
    You're not missing out on much because for most characters the archmage robe is better. But the elven chain looks cool.

  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,247
    It seems tailor-made for bards, who can't wear robes, for all the sense that makes.

    lolien
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,748
    edited October 2013

    Skie is an incredible archer and her stats are pretty good. She also doesn't mess up her thief skills with pickpocket like Alora.

    Comparison of Skie's thieving skills vs Alora (not counting the Luck benefit that Alora's Rabbit Foot provides).



    Alora

    Thieving Skills (level 4)

    Open Locks: 95
    Find Traps: 30
    Pick Pockets: 100
    Move Silently: 45
    Hide in Shadows: 45
    Detect Illusion: 10
    Set Traps: 20

    Thieving Skills (Level 6)

    Open Locks: 100
    Find Traps: 50
    Pick Pockets: 110
    Move Silently: 45
    Hide in Shadows: 45
    Detect Illusion: 10
    Set Traps: 35


    Skie

    Thieving Skills (level 4):

    Open Locks: 45
    Find Traps: 30
    Pick Pockets: 50
    Move Silently: 45
    Hide In Shadows: 40
    Detect Illusion: 0
    Set Traps: 5

    Thieving Skills (level 6):

    Open Locks: 55
    Find Traps: 40
    Pick Pockets: 60
    Move Silently: 55
    Hide In Shadows: 50
    Detect Illusion: 0
    Set Traps: 5



    Basically her high pickpocket score doesn't really make her any less useful than Skie strictly in terms of thieving skills.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,748
    Plus Quayle gets a +3 bonus to save vs spells.

    JuliusBorisovZaferick
  • SedSed Member Posts: 788
    Didn't they change the rules for Wizards so that they only have one opposite school for BG:EE?
    This makes Dynahier much more viable.

    KidCarnival
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,748
    Sed said:

    Didn't they change the rules for Wizards so that they only have one opposite school for BG:EE?
    This makes Dynahier much more viable.

    Technically it was a change that came in BG2 but yes specialist mages now only have one school of opposition. In Dynaheir's case its now just Enchantment.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 2,558
    There are no poor-quality NPCs, only poor-quality players. *shrug* Everything else is personal opinion.

    Viconia is the best NPC cleric in the game--her innate 50% MR, give her ankheg plate mail, potions of strength, and the Honorary Ring of Sune. If you know a tough battle is coming up then give her potions of fortitude, as well.

    Khalid--I concur that he is actually quite useful as a fighter.

    Actually, in all the years of having BG1 I have never used Dynaheir, Tiax, Faldorn, Eldoth, Skie, Yeslick, or Coran. Perhaps if some of these characters had been available before the end of chapter 4 or fully into chapter 5 things would have been different. Still, there is no NPC who cannot be made into a model party member if given the correct equipment.

    Quayle's deficient wisdom isn't a deficiency in BG1 since you cannot normally get 6th or 7th level cleric spells, anyway. Just give him the Ring of Sune if he needs extra spells.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,438
    Damn, I was hoping you were assembling a C-programming team.

    JLeeElendar
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    If i remember correctly, if you're a cleric/mage, like Quayle, you only get bonus spells for one of your classes.

    And intelligence classes always come first, so he doesn't lose anything from wisdom technically.

    I'm not 100% sure about this though.

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    @elminster - That's weird, I remember being surprised Skie didn't put much in pickpockets when I had the patience to get her the first time. Maybe that's because I usually rush to get Skie to have it out of the way right after Cloakwood, and take more time/levels to get Alora because it's so annoying to wait for the right time.

    The biggest gimp effect would certainly be in a party with a bard charname and both Eldoth and Garrick, but no Dorn. Even with his quest, only one would have armor and be able to cast.

    Xzar doesn't belong anywhere near a C or even B team. He's a casting machine after dualing him. Decent str, good dex, good int, very good wis - the only downside is the low con (and both Viconia and Xan have less... hell, Shar-Teel has less). He truly is death, destroyer of worlds!

    elminster
  • triclops41triclops41 Member Posts: 202
    When choosing your team, it's important to have the theme to the A Team playing in your head.

    EudaemoniumNarcissistelminster
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,791
    Garrick and Rasaad are definitely the worst. Dynaheir, Tiax, and Faldorn are pretty bad as well.

    Of course, any of these NPCs can be made powerful with the right equipment ... but you really have to baby them to put them on-par with other NPCs, truly.

    Oh and Faldorn and Dynaheir will always suck in terms of combat ability. Sure their spell-casting is useful (Faldorn is the most capable Divine spellcasting NPC), but they're always gonna suck hardcore in physical combat.

    Eudaemonium
  • Time4TiddyTime4Tiddy Member Posts: 262
    I use Quayle, Faldorn, and Garrick all the time. They are great if you use them right, and mix it up for you with tactics. Try putting the Ring of Wizardy, Ring of Holiness, and Metamagic Amulet on Quayle and he can cast about 30 spells at max level. Quayle can also wear the Elven Chain with no penalties since he has no thief abilities to subtract from.

    Faldorn is much stronger now that EE added the rest of the druid spell list (hello Summon Woodland Being!), and Garrick, well, who else will you give the Crossbow of Speed to? He sits in the back and uses all my wands and scrolls while Quayle casts from memory for an hour before resting. :)

    One of my best playthroughs was me (Stalker), Ajantis, Faldorn, Garrick, Quayle, and Imoen (dualled).

    The only NPC I have truly never used is Tiax. I really want to, but he never fits into any party I build because of how late you get him. I've also only used Skie once, and I got so sick of her voice acting.

    So I guess my list is:

    Skie (worst thief in game full of thieves)
    Safana (second worst thief in game full of thieves, but at least she's sexy and can dual to mage if you work it right)
    Dynaheir (totally crappy dex and not even 18 int - worst mage in game)
    Jaheira (I do not get the love. other than Con her stats are horrid, and Faldorn gets better druid spells faster - I wish they had upgraded her to BG2 stats when EE came out)
    Rasaad - agree with all above he is impossible to use at low levels and a wasted party slot

    With this party your CHARNAME would probably need to be some kind of fighter since you have only Jaheira for "muscle." I'd go with Wizard Slayer since they are weakest at low levels and can't use any potions or magic items.

    JLee
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    I don't particularly have favourites, but for the purposes of continuity I make sure to have a certain party at the end of BG and keep some characters in my party for some time at least.

    My favourite playthrough of the Baldur's Gate series was actually when I tried to have everyone in my party - at least once - throughout BG1. I tried not to metagame and only reloaded when my CHARNAME died. If any NPC's died, and my PC didn't overly like them he would leave them dead. I found this gave great variation upon meeting these same NPC's in BG2:EE. "Xar!? I thought you had been killed?"

    I didn't worry to much on whether or not they were strong or weak. I loved the variation in personalities - and whereas some NPC's were indeed annoying or were incredibly pathetic, I would still let them tag along awhile anyway. It was great from an RP perspective. Garrick screwed up his memorization of a bunch of expensive scrolls, well: "I think we should part ways.... bloody idiot bard."

    All in all, in my honest opinion I don't think I found any of the NPC's useless really. They all served a purpose in some form or another and when played right could still be relatively effective in combat situations.

    JLeeTime4Tiddy
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