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Cleric/Mage and HLAs

MacHurtoMacHurto Member Posts: 726
Hello all,

Another probably very easy question to answer: Can a Cleric/Mage have Mage HLAs before hitting Mage 18? I would guess he cannot as they are Lv9 spells

If that is the case: Isn't that multiclass quite underpowered if running around with a 6-man party? Hitting 6M XP will only be managed (if done) near the end of ToB, I would think.

Comments

  • MetallomanMetalloman Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,975
    @MacHurto: Moved to the right area. You've posted in the Italian subsection of the forum ;)

  • MetallomanMetalloman Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,975
  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    You only get the extra level 6/7/8 spell HLAs before 6m exp as a C/M.

    elminster
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Underpowered compared to what?

    Tenth level spells are great (and largely inferior to quite a few level 9 spells), but lacking them means you're still a primary spellcaster with enough spells per day to do pretty much anything.

    Only pure mages will have level 9 spells before multiclass mages (except dual, which is basically the same thing), and at 3,000,000 Exp, you're looking at a level 18 Pure Mage with 1-2 level 9 spells (and 1 mage HLA) compared to a level 12 Mage who happens to also be a level 14 Cleric who's a lot better in combat, a lot higher saves, is probably a Gnome (because why would you be a half-elf when you could be a gnome?), and has the ability to summon Devas.

    If you ran them through BG1 as well, they've probably also got a Wisdom of 22 or so, and more Cleric spells than they know what to do with. If you ran through BG2, you'll probably end up with plenty more than 3m Exp before you even get to ToB, even before Watcher's Keep.

    4,500,000 Exp: You're now capable of summoning Mage/Clerics, aka have level 8 spells and Simulacrum.
    5,400,000 Exp: Your caster level for cleric caps. You've pretty much every Cleric HLA and then some.
    6,000,000 Exp: You start getting level 9 and 10 spells for mages.
    6,750,000 Exp: Pure Mages and Clerics stop improving at all about here except for HP.
    7,500,000 Exp: Your caster level for mage caps. The only way you aren't completely superior to mages is that they get two more Level 9 slots a day than you, and better dispel magic checks.
    7,650,000 Exp: You get a holy symbol, giving you even more cleric Quest spells. You now have three level 9 spells, 5+ level 8 spells, and 4+ Cleric level 7 spells.

    Underpowered compared to.... Fighters? You basically summon Fighters. Thieves? Just Mirror Image and walk through the traps before Knocking open any barrier.

    Underpowered compared to pure Mages or Clerics? Not really. A comparatively tiny part of the Mage and the Cleric come from their HLAs, the rest come from being primary casters and having spells that replace entire classes. Any class with Mage in it is one of the top class combinations in the game.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,960
    edited January 2014
    MacHurto said:



    If that is the case: Isn't that multiclass quite underpowered if running around with a 6-man party? Hitting 6M XP will only be managed (if done) near the end of ToB, I would think.

    They might be considered underpowered if you are looking for a character that can use Timestop, Improved Alacrity, use Remove Magic/Dispel Magic effectively, and more effectively use spells whose damage is determined by their level. But they are a lot more versatile than a single class mage (particularly when you consider triggers and contingencies).

    jackjackThrasymachus
  • MacHurtoMacHurto Member Posts: 726
    Yes, I get those points. I just have the feeling that a Lv18 wizard would beat a lv12/14 multiclass due to Lv 7,8,9 mage spells. And be much more relevant in boss fights through end SoA and most ToB if using a 6-man party. But maybe it is not true?

    Thanks for the info in any case! :-)

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,960
    edited January 2014
    Its not really a question of what beats what (because this isn't PvP), but rather what class or multiclass is best for what.

    Single class mages can cast a lot of different spells on their own but Cleric/Mages get access to a lot more spells.

    Take Aerie for instance. Say right before a battle I know I will need her to play a melee role in my party. I'm probably not very inclined to do this because she has better uses, but if I wanted to its fairly straightforward.

    The Aerie I'm using in this playthrough is Cleric/Mage levels 9/10, but you could do this with an earlier or later level Aerie also.

    The first thing I do is cast Polymorph Self and then Minor Sequencer (choosing for this example Spiritual Hammer and Draw Upon Holy Might).

    I cast any defensive spells I want (so Shield, Mirror Images, Armor of Faith, or whatever I feel is good enough), a Haste spell, and then I cast Holy Power and Righteous Magic.

    Holy Power gives her the Thac0 of a level 9 fighter and Righteous Magic boosts her strength and makes it so she does maximum damage with each attack for its duration.

    I then transform her into the spider form and use the spell sequencer on her. She's now got 22 strength, 19 dexterity, hits as a level 9 fighter with a +2 weapon, does maximum damage per hit, and attacks with 5 attacks per round. Due to the limited duration of some of these spells its not a strategy that (at this level) will prove to be useful for much more than 6-7 rounds, but it demonstrates that compared to a single class mage its a lot more versatile in what it can do.

  • MacHurtoMacHurto Member Posts: 726
    I am not saying cleric/wizards are bad :-) they just seem to me more of a support character, though, until they get such a high level they get all the benefits.

    But I agree they are extremely versatile. Maybe I should try bringing Aerie along and see if I like it. She is just so annoying sometimes.

    Thanks!

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