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Ajantis (Massive spoiler)

SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
I'm playing with Ajantis in my BG1 party again and it makes me a little bit sad knowing what's going to happen to him in BG2. I really like him in BG1 and if you give him the gauntlets of dexterity he got a really nice stat line, throw in the cloak with +2 charisma and he'll have 19 charisma as well and can be your leader.

I really like that they added some NPC's from BG1 into BG2 (Garrick, Faldorn, Etc) But i've always felt that Ajantis got the short stick. There was so much that could have been done that i feel they should have given you an option to use a true sight spell or something like that.

I always bring Keldorn along with me for this quest to get that dialogue option.

So what do you think? Don't like him? Felt that he got a good ending in BG2?

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Comments

  • MacHurtoMacHurto Member Posts: 731
    What is the dialog with Keldorn in BG2?
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2014
    Blackraven said:

    He's got great stats and is a capable warrior and party leader. Back in the day I used to take him along in my good-aligned parties (at the cost of Minsc, whom I liked less).
    As to his personality, well he's a pally. I've nothing against good-aligned characters, but lawful good is one of the alignments I like the least. Limiting one's options out of respect for the law, is just dumb IMO, as if 'law' > 'good'. But maybe that's my lack of imagination for roleplaying a pragmatic paladin. I always imagined Ajantis to be good-intentioned but a bit naive.

    Nevertheless I would have liked a better ending for him. But also for Faldorn, and Tiax. Faldorn and Tiax don't even recognize Charname and have rather sad endings, like Ajantis.

    There are one or two mods for Tutu/BGT that allow you to save Ajantis in BGII. Not sure if they've been made available for EE. And I also don't know how good they are as I've never used them (which goes to show that I never missed him that much).

    Faldorn still get quite a big part of that quest line and you get to fight her in a 1v1. Tiax gets to fight Irenicus and even though he can't remember you he's a part of the main quest line and you can't miss out on him.

    You won't even know what you have done to Ajantis unless you have Keldorn in your party, there is no dialogue there, just an empty fight against a group of monsters. Even Tazok gets more than Ajantis.
    MacHurto said:

    What is the dialog with Keldorn in BG2?

    Keldorn will mention that it's Ajantis a former squire (Now paladin?) of the order.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    I like that he's killed. It gives some value towards Firkraag's actions. You've now killed someone who you may have shared an extensive amount of time adventuring.

    Though I would have liked it if you could use Dispel Magic to rid everyone of their illusions.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    I never understood why they couldn't let NPC's remember each other. Viconia would remember Edwin because they are both evil and would most of the time be played in the same party. Jaheira or Minsc could remember Ajantis.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    My paladins, ordered disciplined reasoned state is often at odds with her more emotional leanings creating some serious personality flaws that make for a well rounded character. Its one reason I specialize in fire magic as a wizard with said paladin, it fits. They're both disciplined, but beyond offering another means, sometimes her emotional side comes out leading towards fiery fury.

    It's the restraint and keeping it in check, that fits well with a paladin player..........and also the bhaalspawn saga.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    elminster said:

    I like that he's killed. It gives some value towards Firkraag's actions. You've now killed someone who you may have shared an extensive amount of time adventuring.

    Though I would have liked it if you could use Dispel Magic to rid everyone of their illusions.

    This plot device is forced and weak.

    "Oh I must care about Firkraang because he killed a guy I know". A better way to add value to Firkraang would be to make his actions do something rather than get quick value at the expense of name recognition of a guy you know. Firkraang should be able to stand on his own four feet.
  • TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    edited March 2014
    I felt it was fitting for Firkraag's personality.

    He's a red dragon, and likely an old one. He's arrogant and lazy by nature, he's not going to take any action personally when he can sit comfy in his lair while toying with you indirectly and mess with you for his amusement. He even lets you walk away after meeting him despite his whole "I can torment his (Gorion's) spirit by destroying you" thing. He lets you leave unharmed, grow stronger, then come back so you can kill him. That is typical dragon arrogance for you. Just look at what he says when you challenge him. He doesn't think you stand a chance.

    Yes there might have been a better way to show it than killing off Ajantis but the concept is far from forced imo.
  • TethorilofLathanderTethorilofLathander Member Posts: 427
    It's great for Ajantis to die this way. It fits in well with his story as well as gives you a more personal reason to take on Firkraag :D
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    SionIV said:

    TethorilofLathander said:

    It's great for Ajantis to die this way. It fits in well with his story as well as gives you a more personal reason to take on Firkraag :D

    Unless you didn't take Keldorn and you wouldn't even know it was him.
    An in-depth conversation about who Ajantis was, and what charname shared with him on their travels would be too much, since charname might have never even spoken to Ajantis. For the same reason I dislike the assumption in Irenicus' dungeon that charname knows and travelled with Minsc and Jaheira. (With Imoen's presence I've no problem.) In the case of Ajantis it's practically impossible for charname not to have seen him on the road in an area necessary to visit in order to unlock Baldur's Gate or Ulgoth's Beard. The least that could have been done is have charname remark that (s)he thinks to recognize the battered face of one of the paladns they just slew.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2014
    Blackraven said:

    SionIV said:

    TethorilofLathander said:

    It's great for Ajantis to die this way. It fits in well with his story as well as gives you a more personal reason to take on Firkraag :D

    Unless you didn't take Keldorn and you wouldn't even know it was him.
    An in-depth conversation about who Ajantis was, and what charname shared with him on their travels would be too much, since charname might have never even spoken to Ajantis. For the same reason I dislike the assumption in Irenicus' dungeon that charname knows and travelled with Minsc and Jaheira. (With Imoen's presence I've no problem.) In the case of Ajantis it's practically impossible for charname not to have seen him on the road in an area necessary to visit in order to unlock Baldur's Gate or Ulgoth's Beard. The least that could have been done is have charname remark that (s)he thinks to recognize the battered face of one of the paladns they just slew.
    Would it be too much to have Jaheira or Minsc remember him? He would have been used in parties with them anyway.

    Jaheira remembers Xzar, Montaron and Viconia. Minsc remembers edwin.

    Why couldn't either Jaheira or Minsc tell you who he was?

    It is what it is and can't change that now, i just found it a bit sad that so many people don't even know it is him. You'll see all the other NPC's from BG1 (Garrick, Faldorn, Xzar, Etc) by doing normal quests. Ajantis is the only one who will be missed most of the time unless people play with Keldorn.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    SionIV said:



    Would it be too much to have Jaheira or Minsc remember him? He would have been used in parties with them anyway.

    Would he? For many people the canonical good party seems to consist of Charname, Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc and Dynaheir.

    I concur that it wouldn't have been far-stretched to have e.g. Jaheira remark that she remembers having seen Ajantis near the FAI before, but that wouldn't solve your problem with the current setup. Your problem was that you only know who you just slew if you have Keldorn in your party. If you had a commentary by Jaheira scripted for this situation, you still wouldn't know you killed Ajantis if you don't have Jaheira or Keldorn around.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    Helm yeah!! lol
  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 2,776
    @booinyoureyes - if BioWare would have done that, this open end would have been complete, yes. Like it is, it is screaming for additonal content. But then, I was thankful I could fill in the gaps the way I wanted it.
  • NecomancerNecomancer Member Posts: 622
    This all just makes me wonder how much they actually wanted to add to BG2 that they didn't. Even though we don't think of it that way I have no doubts BG2 was rushed before they were fully satisfied with some of its content. Though not near as bad as ToB I can't help but feel they, at one point, had to say "Good enough." and ship it out
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    edited March 2014
    Blackraven said:

    SionIV said:



    Would it be too much to have Jaheira or Minsc remember him? He would have been used in parties with them anyway.

    Would he? For many people the canonical good party seems to consist of Charname, Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc and Dynaheir.
    I am kinda of the belief that CHARNAME traveled or encountered every NPC for an amount of time in the first game. You have recollections of adventuring with or interacting with Edwin, Viconia, Tiax, Xzar, Montaron, Garrick, Coran, Safana and (potentially) all of the EE NPCs (as well as the obvious canon party). I don't remember, but maybe Faldorn and Quayle as well (I do remember having a dialogue option with Quayle, but that could have been a mod). Ajantis seems to be the only one that doesn't even get a shoutout.
    The other cameos, while far from great (with the exception of Garrick's, which is PERFECT) at least made reference to the character's history or personality. Most had dialogue. Ajantis doesn't even get that, and it is a shame.
    Post edited by booinyoureyes on
  • VasculioVasculio Member Posts: 482
    Actually Xzar's fate an't officially sealed... I mean sure you can sacrifice the Harper Quest, by telling Xzar to do his own dirty work, which makes him upset and leaves.
    Or
    Decline helping Renfeld

    As for Ajantis... I felt this was unfair to his character considering he was a pretty good paladin with a lot potential.

    P.S. still waiting on Jastey's mod
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    He's a fun character. The main thing I like about Ajantis is that he gets into it with evil characters and may have fights with them. That unpredictability adds more fun to the game for me. Doesn't seem to happen much with a high Cha party leader, though, IIRC.
  • RyofuRyofu Member Posts: 268
    huh? Firkaag kills Ajantis? i never noticed that conversation after playing through the game so many times over the years. where and when do you learn of this?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Ryofu said:

    huh? Firkaag kills Ajantis? i never noticed that conversation after playing through the game so many times over the years. where and when do you learn of this?

    He is in the group of knights/warriors you kill (who have an illusion on them to look like orcs and such) when you first enter the Windspear hills.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,582
    edited March 2014
    SionIV said:



    So what do you think? Don't like him? Felt that he got a good ending in BG2?

    Unfortunately, I never got much of a chance to use Ajantis in my current playthrough. I made the mistake of taking him in while Dorn was in my party and... well, you know what happens next. ;-)

    Having said that, I would say most of the BG1 NPCs got a raw deal in BG2 - either by not being brought back at all, or by being killed off in brief cameos. Fortunately, there's always Vasculio's multiplayer method for importing BG1 NPCs into BG2 (see here: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/28968/using-ee-keeper-to-use-your-favorite-bg1ee-npc-party-in-bg2ee), which can potentially offset this somewhat.
  • RyofuRyofu Member Posts: 268
    errr how do you know it is ajantis?
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