The era of 2E is over. BG/BG2 will continue the transformation into a Frankenstein of various rules sets, my D&D life will end with the purge of 2E from BG/BG2, and I will move on to other hobbies.
I prefer 2E, with all its confinements, and then to have the flexibility to stretch the rules a little (for example to be able to play a Halfling Cleric/Thief or a Gnomish Ranger, or to allow a cleric to use a blade if that fits the character/deity). The confinements combined with the flexibility make it possible to create characters that are still recognizable but with a unique feature or two.
The more modern editions that allow everyone to advance in every class and they want, whenever they want, may be more true to RL, but I somehow prefer the simplicity of 2E.
Come on! Orcs ain't half as bad as people want them to believe. I, for my part, think they're rather cute with their tiny noses and adorable smiles!
That being said, I still have difficulties of imagine a happy marriage life between human waifus and ogre hubbies... I can only guess how high their weekly cleric bills must be.
And I guess only humans are dumb or drunk enough to be in a compromising situation with orcs...
I have a half-orc Paladin of Ilmater/Painbearer of Ilmater in IWD2 whose father, who was a human, kept an orc female around as *ahem* "amusement". His father was the leader of a rather brutal mercenary band with a reputation for wanton violence and whose tastes ran to the exotic, to say the least. The earliest incarnation of this character--the father, that is--also kept kept hobgoblin and goblin females in his company but that started to make the other pencil-and-paper players in my group have upset stomachs.
If you think about it, humans are known in 2nd Edition to be adaptable (thus the only reason they can dual-class). I role-play that humans have the plainest and most compromising genetic make-up. Since they're really not so different from the orcs or elves, breeding with these races is easier than the others.
I wonder if there's a reason we don't see any half-race characters among the shorty races. Orcs and Elves and Humans are all members of the "tall" race, yes? So if humans can breed with the other "tall" races, does that mean the "shorty" races can breed together? So... A halfling and a dwarf? A dwarf and a gnome?
@atcDave - or less than willing males. I just think of Lersa and Betor from Star Trek:TNG (klingons being analogous to orcs in this instance). I'd say they pretty much were the aggressors in the situation and wouldn't take no for an answer.
Drow were originally created from the Norse Mythology Dark elves that were cruel and ugly in appearance to such a degree that they instilled nightmares.
This is an artist's depiction of a Norse Dark Elf, sitting on the chest of a sleeping 'victim'.
To take it one more step, the concept was probably altered to prevent issues, but the basic premise of them being cruel in appearance and ugly in the extreme was kept.
That would be a "mara", from which we (well, you, or the English speakers, but we have a similar word) have received the word "night-mare". If the Svartalfs of Nordic mythology had any similar things attributed to them then I've certainly never heard of it. The "black elves" of the Norse myths are actually a lot more similar to Dwarves, which isn't particularly surprising as they were basically two different words for the same people. They weren't really separate until Tolkien separated them. Drow, on the other hand, just seems to be an "evilified" Tolkien Elf given a name based on a root word for dwarf (Dreugh), similar to how duergar are just evilified Tolkien Dwarves given a name based on the Old Norse word for dwarf (dvergr).
As for that picture. I do not know where or when it is from, but I highly doubt it draws on any Norse heritage rather than being 17-19th century folklore stuff named to give of some nationalist-romantic flair.
And finally, I really have to contend the notion that Drow depicted as ugly (at least in DnD). If they were, it must've been back in the earliest versions of the game, because even the 1st Ed ADnD Unearthed Arcana (the earliest book I have quick access to) makes no mention of any differences between Drow and other Elves besides the black skin and white/silver hair.
the picture is a representation what is known as night hag or old hag syndrome and is something you'll see in a lot of folklore due to its frequent occurrence across the world. Its quite an interesting phenomenon but is not isolated to Nordic folklore . Not to say that this picture isn't inspired by it
I remember reading somewhere (not sure if it was a fan theory or official) that only humans are genetically compatible with other races, but still not all of them.
DnD is not real life. Races are created, not evolved. (Corellon Larethian created the Elves, Moradin the dwarves, Gruumsh the orcs, Yondalla the halflings).
Not sure who created the humans but they might be the race that "evolved" by modern standards. For example, Corellon could have simply said: "I don't want my elves to be genetically compatible with orcs or dwarves."
And Moradin could have said: "I want my dwarves to be pure and mate will only their own kind, not even humans". Dwarves are conservative and traditional by nature, a trait probably inherited by Moradin.
So we have no Half-Elf/Half-Orc or Half-Elf/Half-Dwarf races. It's simple as that.
Just because a race is similar to each other that doesn't mean that mating is always possible. For example, just because a dolphin and a shark look similar, doesn't mean that they can create offspring.
The pic that I posted was actually from a site describing Norse Mythology Dark Elves. Now, it's the internet and therefore just about anything is possible. But.... it is 'supposed' to be Nordic elves. And yes, they are also known for the creation of night-mares because they would influence a victim's dream.
I think that a lot of the 'old' myths commingle over time and are used to describe common events but in different ways and from different sources.
And while it is true that 'Dark Elves' in Norse mythology are more akin to 'Dwarves', the pervasiveness of tall and vaguely 'alien' Elves from Tolkeinesque in Dungeons And dragons have significantly altered the perception of the term 'Elf' such that anything with 'Elf' in the name has morphed to mean tall and thin with almond eyes. Even classic elves are not as Tolkein described them. Cest' La Vi. Things change.
Still, i see no reason to assume a level of bigotry and racism where there's a more rational and logical explanation.
The era of 2E is over. BG/BG2 will continue the transformation into a Frankenstein of various rules sets, my D&D life will end with the purge of 2E from BG/BG2, and I will move on to other hobbies.
I prefer 2E, with all its confinements, and then to have the flexibility to stretch the rules a little (for example to be able to play a Halfling Cleric/Thief or a Gnomish Ranger, or to allow a cleric to use a blade if that fits the character/deity). The confinements combined with the flexibility make it possible to create characters that are still recognizable but with a unique feature or two.
The more modern editions that allow everyone to advance in every class and they want, whenever they want, may be more true to RL, but I somehow prefer the simplicity of 2E.
Actually, 2E has already laid the provisions for stretching rules. 2E Players' Handbook advocates a conservative, tentative approach for allowing illegal class combinations when DMs see fit to do so, implying that this is to make the DM's life easier. Various deity sourcebooks describe the weapons available to specialty priests, many of which are non-blunt weapons.
Sadly, such a conservative approach does not work well with computer games, and it is made worse by the rise of the modding culture where any player who dislikes some of the rules can mod the offending rules away, or implement mechanics and rules changes freely before considering the side effects. We have mods that add PnP elements in selective ways, NPCs with ridiculous stats and items, and more.
Fortunately, I still have other games to play, shows to watch, books to read, even after I retire from D&D ^_^
Comments
The more modern editions that allow everyone to advance in every class and they want, whenever they want, may be more true to RL, but I somehow prefer the simplicity of 2E.
That being said, I still have difficulties of imagine a happy marriage life between human waifus and ogre hubbies... I can only guess how high their weekly cleric bills must be.
I wonder if there's a reason we don't see any half-race characters among the shorty races. Orcs and Elves and Humans are all members of the "tall" race, yes? So if humans can breed with the other "tall" races, does that mean the "shorty" races can breed together? So... A halfling and a dwarf? A dwarf and a gnome?
As for that picture. I do not know where or when it is from, but I highly doubt it draws on any Norse heritage rather than being 17-19th century folklore stuff named to give of some nationalist-romantic flair.
And finally, I really have to contend the notion that Drow depicted as ugly (at least in DnD). If they were, it must've been back in the earliest versions of the game, because even the 1st Ed ADnD Unearthed Arcana (the earliest book I have quick access to) makes no mention of any differences between Drow and other Elves besides the black skin and white/silver hair.
the picture is a representation what is known as night hag or old hag syndrome and is something you'll see in a lot of folklore due to its frequent occurrence across the world. Its quite an interesting phenomenon but is not isolated to Nordic folklore . Not to say that this picture isn't inspired by it
DnD is not real life. Races are created, not evolved.
(Corellon Larethian created the Elves, Moradin the dwarves, Gruumsh the orcs, Yondalla the halflings).
Not sure who created the humans but they might be the race that "evolved" by modern standards.
For example, Corellon could have simply said: "I don't want my elves to be genetically compatible with orcs or dwarves."
And Moradin could have said: "I want my dwarves to be pure and mate will only their own kind, not even humans". Dwarves are conservative and traditional by nature, a trait probably inherited by Moradin.
So we have no Half-Elf/Half-Orc or Half-Elf/Half-Dwarf races. It's simple as that.
Just because a race is similar to each other that doesn't mean that mating is always possible.
For example, just because a dolphin and a shark look similar, doesn't mean that they can create offspring.
The pic that I posted was actually from a site describing Norse Mythology Dark Elves. Now, it's the internet and therefore just about anything is possible. But.... it is 'supposed' to be Nordic elves. And yes, they are also known for the creation of night-mares because they would influence a victim's dream.
I think that a lot of the 'old' myths commingle over time and are used to describe common events but in different ways and from different sources.
And while it is true that 'Dark Elves' in Norse mythology are more akin to 'Dwarves', the pervasiveness of tall and vaguely 'alien' Elves from Tolkeinesque in Dungeons And dragons have significantly altered the perception of the term 'Elf' such that anything with 'Elf' in the name has morphed to mean tall and thin with almond eyes. Even classic elves are not as Tolkein described them. Cest' La Vi. Things change.
Still, i see no reason to assume a level of bigotry and racism where there's a more rational and logical explanation.
(I've been fighting a cold the past couple days, so my brain's not as clear as it could be.)
Edit: Done and done, move along please. :P
Sadly, such a conservative approach does not work well with computer games, and it is made worse by the rise of the modding culture where any player who dislikes some of the rules can mod the offending rules away, or implement mechanics and rules changes freely before considering the side effects. We have mods that add PnP elements in selective ways, NPCs with ridiculous stats and items, and more.
Fortunately, I still have other games to play, shows to watch, books to read, even after I retire from D&D ^_^