1) I find the vanilla Druid's shapeshifts useless and no loss to give up, so I might as well have the Totemic's spirit animals instead, which are quite useful (at least for BG1ee); 2) I find the Avenger's STR penalty annoying, and I want to wear heavier armour; 3) I actually find Shapeshifter pretty good once I've got to level 13 and gained the Greater Werewolf transformation, which I find (contrary to the opinion of some other people) pretty powerful even in ToB ... but when we want a Shapeshifter we can hire Cernd, so I'm not so motivated to play that kit for my protagonist.
Gah! I'm apparently forgetful, considering I thought about the new poll when I woke up this morning, and then promptly forgot... I'll get right on that! Thanks for the reminder @elminster !
@CamDawg I only ever played IWD when I was very young, so I don't know what made druids so powerful. What was it exactly?
As stated before the IWD druid has more offensive spells and their elemental summoning are really strong. Static charge was the most damaging spell in IWD. If I remember you cast it once and you could deal 2 or 3 times in a row something like 60/75 damage, really saved the day many times at one shooting enemies.
As for this vote, I don't really know coze I never played a totemic druid but I know shapeshifter sucks for me, why? Because druid are very good casters and I think it is a waste to use them for melee, particularly when their taco are so bad and they don't really deal any significant damage compare to a fighter. It's stylish for sure but for me a werewolf should be much stronger than a fighter, they are werewolf wth... and they hit like Barbie girl. Not a good deal I think and you can't even wear any armor...
Now Avenger or Totemic druid? I never play with a full party, max 2 or 3 and I don't like mage so I think the totemic druid is a good back up because of the summons. It is only my guess actually, I plan to do my next run with a Totemic druid.
As for this vote, I don't really know coze I never played a totemic druid but I know shapeshifter sucks for me, why? Because druid are very good casters and I think it is a waste to use them for melee, particularly when their taco are so bad and they don't really deal any significant damage compare to a fighter. It's stylish for sure but for me a werewolf should be much stronger than a fighter, they are werewolf wth... and they hit like Barbie girl. Not a good deal I think and you can't even wear any armor...
Losing the ability to wear armor isn't that big of a deal. Your form (which in BGEE you get at level 1) gives you a base armor class of 1, which is lowered to -1 by your dexterity. Frankly before level 7 you are generally going to be better off staying in form unless you are fighting a mage (and even then only for you casting Summon Insects, Dispel Magic, or perhaps Call Lightning). Plus with the Shield Amulet your armor class out of your form can still be pretty low against missiles (which should be your biggest concern when casting).
Plus as a player character you benefit from getting Draw Upon Holy Might as an innate ability. At the end of BGEE you can have 22 strength and 19 dexterity while in your werewolf form.
At the end of the day though you are a druid, not a fighter. So I'm not sure that those two are a great comparison. Besides, with 19 strength and 2 APR you'll still start out as a better melee character than most of the warrior NPC's you'll come across in the first game (though that will change in time in their favour).
As for SoA you just need to get access to the Greater Werewolf form. With it you'll probably be one of the most defensible characters in your group (you will have at least -11 AC). On top of that if you refrain from going to spellhold until the chapter 2/3 quests are all done you can take advantage of your access to Draw Upon Holy Might and get 25 strength out of its use.
As for this vote, I don't really know coze I never played a totemic druid but I know shapeshifter sucks for me, why? Because druid are very good casters and I think it is a waste to use them for melee, particularly when their taco are so bad and they don't really deal any significant damage compare to a fighter. It's stylish for sure but for me a werewolf should be much stronger than a fighter, they are werewolf wth... and they hit like Barbie girl. Not a good deal I think and you can't even wear any armor...
Losing the ability to wear armor isn't that big of a deal. Your form (which in BGEE you get at level 1) gives you a base armor class of 1, which is lowered to -1 by your dexterity. Frankly before level 7 you are generally going to be better off staying in form unless you are fighting a mage (and even then only for you casting Summon Insects, Dispel Magic, or perhaps Call Lightning). Plus with the Shield Amulet your armor class out of your form can still be pretty low against missiles (which should be your biggest concern when casting).
Plus as a player character you benefit from getting Draw Upon Holy Might as an innate ability. At the end of BGEE you can have 22 strength and 19 dexterity while in your werewolf form.
At the end of the day though you are a druid, not a fighter. So I'm not sure that those two are a great comparison. Besides, with 19 strength and 2 APR you'll still start out as a better melee character than most of the warrior NPC's you'll come across in the first game (though that will change in time in their favour).
As for SoA you just need to get access to the Greater Werewolf form. With it you'll probably be one of the most defensible characters in your group (you will have at least -11 AC). On top of that if you refrain from going to spellhold until the chapter 2/3 quests are all done you can take advantage of your access to Draw Upon Holy Might and get 25 strength out of its use.
I agree that in BG EE the use of shapeshifter can be very useful, but I don't play anymore BG EE, for SoA Druid are really good to deal with large amount of enemies and at the end I spend all the time casting and don't really see the use of shapeshifting.
Not able to wear armor is not a big deal for druid it is true, but I like to use armor me I don't want to lose this for a werewolf that can't cast
Avenger is a considerably better combat caster, @ifupauline as they get some of the best mage spells. If you arent running a mage, an Avenger is a very good substitute. Chaos, Web, and his shapeshifting are pretty badass in BGEE, and still awesome later into BG2.
I think my biggest concern with the Shapeshifter are the Elemental forms... dont these kinda trump brutally the standard form? Greater ww is more durable maybe, but such bad damage it seems. Who cares about armour, but the forms seem worse than the Avengers combo of web and Swordspider.
Avenger is a considerably better combat caster, @ifupauline as they get some of the best mage spells. If you arent running a mage, an Avenger is a very good substitute. Chaos, Web, and his shapeshifting are pretty badass in BGEE, and still awesome later into BG2.
I think my biggest concern with the Shapeshifter are the Elemental forms... dont these kinda trump brutally the standard form? Greater ww is more durable maybe, but such bad damage it seems. Who cares about armour, but the forms seem worse than the Avengers combo of web and Swordspider.
Fire elemental transformation is debatable since it does only have 1APR and lacks the magic resistance that the Greater Werewolf has. Plus its AC is a lot worse (with enough boosts a Greater Werewolf can still have a very low amount of AC in ToB). On the otherhand the fire elemental transformations Thac0 is a lot better. I think the Thac0 boost and its damage (1d10 crushing, 1d10 fire, and a damage bonus from having 23 strength) make up for the APR difference but its really a question of whether or not you want a more defensive character or a more offensive one.
I would generally say (apart from the magic and elemental resistances) that the Earth Elemental transformation is better than the Greater Werewolf form. It gets 2 APR, an improved base Thac0, and still gets 20 strength. Plus it does 2d10 crushing damage.
@Elminister - I guess it's a matter of individual playing style, but in my last completed run I was converted from taking everyone else's word for it that Cernd was a weak character into realising that he's actually darn good if you figure out how to use him.
I had him spending most of his time in GWw form, and he was a good tank even in ToB. He wasn't doing a huge amount of DPS, but he was good because excellent AC + excellent resistances made him really tough. With the right equipment he gets 100% resistance to many damage types, so even some of the ToB bosses were struggling to hurt him, and the ordinary ToB mobs mostly couldn't touch him at all. So most of the time, I ran him in first to draw enemy attacks, while the rest of my party followed up and did the damage - it was a classic tank role, and Cernd (as GWw) turned out to be a pretty solid front-liner. It's his AC + resistances which are the key factors in this role, so when you use him this way, his GWw form is much better than either of the elemental transformations.
You know, on this subject... going through a list of mods and installing things for Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn... and I noticed the added Oozemaster kit.
Which essentially turns the druid who takes it into someone who can shapeshift into oozes and eventually as their bodies change, become an ooze person themselves with alot of immunities like immunity to critical hits...
...and for the first time I looked at that kit, I realized...
Before anyone brings out the Mace of Disruption on this thread, I'd like to point out that high-level Totemic Druid summons are immune to nonmagical weapons, basically all disablers, and strike with +6 weapons. They are fantastic anti-mage tools, even with SCS.
You know, on this subject... going through a list of mods and installing things for Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn... and I noticed the added Oozemaster kit.
Which essentially turns the druid who takes it into someone who can shapeshift into oozes and eventually as their bodies change, become an ooze person themselves with alot of immunities like immunity to critical hits...
...and for the first time I looked at that kit, I realized...
I like the Avenger, though to be completely honest I've never tried the other two kits (on my PC anyway, Cernd doesn't count). The one thing that annoys me about Avenger is the Strength penalty.
On the fence between Shapeshifter and Avenger. Chose Shapeshifter just because I figured there'd be less people voting for this underdog as it's a bit underpowered in BG franchise.
Druid is a spell caster above all else and late game he will be using his summons and spells to get through fights. Whilst not a true werewolf, shapeshifter gets a decent melee option from level 1, which really speeds up the game. Werewolf and gww are not amazing late game but they do give a solid option for clearing hordes of lesser enemies.
Avenger gets some Mage spells...but none that are game breaking. The stat penalties don't matter too much for a pure faster either, but they are there.
Shapeshifter hurts the most in my opinion. No armor is bad for a faster who doesn't want to lose stoneskin quickly, and the werewolf isn't good enough to fight in combat effectively.
Totemic loses shape shifting, but really, those forms are pretty worthless. In return he gets free, effective, summons.
Free unique summons for no real cost trump becoming a low tier fighter or getting some easily duplicated Mage spells.
Comments
1) I find the vanilla Druid's shapeshifts useless and no loss to give up, so I might as well have the Totemic's spirit animals instead, which are quite useful (at least for BG1ee);
2) I find the Avenger's STR penalty annoying, and I want to wear heavier armour;
3) I actually find Shapeshifter pretty good once I've got to level 13 and gained the Greater Werewolf transformation, which I find (contrary to the opinion of some other people) pretty powerful even in ToB ... but when we want a Shapeshifter we can hire Cernd, so I'm not so motivated to play that kit for my protagonist.
The only reason to go vanilla IMO is if you want a fighter/druid (dual/multi-class) PC.
Anyways, what is the next poll planned anyways? (looks like bard, thieves and mages/sorcerers are left)
As for this vote, I don't really know coze I never played a totemic druid but I know shapeshifter sucks for me, why? Because druid are very good casters and I think it is a waste to use them for melee, particularly when their taco are so bad and they don't really deal any significant damage compare to a fighter. It's stylish for sure but for me a werewolf should be much stronger than a fighter, they are werewolf wth... and they hit like Barbie girl. Not a good deal I think and you can't even wear any armor...
Now Avenger or Totemic druid? I never play with a full party, max 2 or 3 and I don't like mage so I think the totemic druid is a good back up because of the summons. It is only my guess actually, I plan to do my next run with a Totemic druid.
Plus as a player character you benefit from getting Draw Upon Holy Might as an innate ability. At the end of BGEE you can have 22 strength and 19 dexterity while in your werewolf form.
At the end of the day though you are a druid, not a fighter. So I'm not sure that those two are a great comparison. Besides, with 19 strength and 2 APR you'll still start out as a better melee character than most of the warrior NPC's you'll come across in the first game (though that will change in time in their favour).
As for SoA you just need to get access to the Greater Werewolf form. With it you'll probably be one of the most defensible characters in your group (you will have at least -11 AC). On top of that if you refrain from going to spellhold until the chapter 2/3 quests are all done you can take advantage of your access to Draw Upon Holy Might and get 25 strength out of its use.
Not able to wear armor is not a big deal for druid it is true, but I like to use armor me
I think my biggest concern with the Shapeshifter are the Elemental forms... dont these kinda trump brutally the standard form? Greater ww is more durable maybe, but such bad damage it seems. Who cares about armour, but the forms seem worse than the Avengers combo of web and Swordspider.
I would generally say (apart from the magic and elemental resistances) that the Earth Elemental transformation is better than the Greater Werewolf form. It gets 2 APR, an improved base Thac0, and still gets 20 strength. Plus it does 2d10 crushing damage.
I had him spending most of his time in GWw form, and he was a good tank even in ToB. He wasn't doing a huge amount of DPS, but he was good because excellent AC + excellent resistances made him really tough. With the right equipment he gets 100% resistance to many damage types, so even some of the ToB bosses were struggling to hurt him, and the ordinary ToB mobs mostly couldn't touch him at all. So most of the time, I ran him in first to draw enemy attacks, while the rest of my party followed up and did the damage - it was a classic tank role, and Cernd (as GWw) turned out to be a pretty solid front-liner. It's his AC + resistances which are the key factors in this role, so when you use him this way, his GWw form is much better than either of the elemental transformations.
You know, on this subject... going through a list of mods and installing things for Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn... and I noticed the added Oozemaster kit.
Which essentially turns the druid who takes it into someone who can shapeshift into oozes and eventually as their bodies change, become an ooze person themselves with alot of immunities like immunity to critical hits...
...and for the first time I looked at that kit, I realized...
...I could turn Jaheira into a googirl.
And all was well in the world.
I don't think it's possible for druids in BG to be devastating.
I personally prefer playing with druids in IWD, don't have a habit of using them in BG series.
Avenger gets some Mage spells...but none that are game breaking. The stat penalties don't matter too much for a pure faster either, but they are there.
Shapeshifter hurts the most in my opinion. No armor is bad for a faster who doesn't want to lose stoneskin quickly, and the werewolf isn't good enough to fight in combat effectively.
Totemic loses shape shifting, but really, those forms are pretty worthless. In return he gets free, effective, summons.
Free unique summons for no real cost trump becoming a low tier fighter or getting some easily duplicated Mage spells.