First ever EVIL campaign?
Meanbunny
Member Posts: 107
Yes, I am 27 years old and in all my years of installing BG on new computers every half a decade since I was a teenager, I have never done an evil playthrough.
To be honest, I don't even have the slightest idea how being evil is going to effect the game and how I interact with NPC's in the game and decisions I make. Do I just run around taking all the evil dialogue options? Do I grind commoners and nobles for XP?
Among those questions I also am pretty excited about thoughts on who is going to come along for this journey. Do I tell Imoen to get lost outside Candlekeep? I have ALWAYS wanted to see what it was like to bring Xzar and Montaron into my party for the longhaul. Are they worth bringing along? I also have always wanted to see what it was like having Shar-teel being my frontliner with Viconia being my healer. I also have never considered using Eldoth the bard, I wonder if he is any good?
If any of you guys have done the naughty bhaalspawn run before and have any good tips for me to make this playthrough more enjoyable, I would greatly appreciate it. So far you guys have helped me to understand what a solo run is all about, the pros and cons of min/maxing and roleplaying in your playthrough. I figured it was time to stop planning and thinking about what I want to do in the game and finally get a run going.
So what do you guys think? Should I go for it, or should I be proud to say that I have never played an evil character on this game before and keep up my streak of honor and integrity? Thanks in advance for any comments and criticism. Have a great day guys.
To be honest, I don't even have the slightest idea how being evil is going to effect the game and how I interact with NPC's in the game and decisions I make. Do I just run around taking all the evil dialogue options? Do I grind commoners and nobles for XP?
Among those questions I also am pretty excited about thoughts on who is going to come along for this journey. Do I tell Imoen to get lost outside Candlekeep? I have ALWAYS wanted to see what it was like to bring Xzar and Montaron into my party for the longhaul. Are they worth bringing along? I also have always wanted to see what it was like having Shar-teel being my frontliner with Viconia being my healer. I also have never considered using Eldoth the bard, I wonder if he is any good?
If any of you guys have done the naughty bhaalspawn run before and have any good tips for me to make this playthrough more enjoyable, I would greatly appreciate it. So far you guys have helped me to understand what a solo run is all about, the pros and cons of min/maxing and roleplaying in your playthrough. I figured it was time to stop planning and thinking about what I want to do in the game and finally get a run going.
So what do you guys think? Should I go for it, or should I be proud to say that I have never played an evil character on this game before and keep up my streak of honor and integrity? Thanks in advance for any comments and criticism. Have a great day guys.
4
Comments
Xzar + Monty: Xzar is fragile, especially early. Monty excels as a backstabber, scout, or archer. He's multi snd halfer, so he's very durable, and evil's best thief. Xzar can be dualed to cleric, and he's very good at it. He'll need a wis tome. 5th or 6th make sense to dual at. Xzar would be more popular if Edwin didnt have more oomph.
Viconia: handy but not strictly necessary, judicious use of her more offense oriented spells will make her valuable. Command can insta-drop most enemies in the game, very handy early caster shutdown. It gets better with Silence 15', Hold Person, Animate Dead (overly awesome), even miscast magic can be situationally useful, but silence is better. Only early cleric for Evil.
Kagain: Pure tank, nothing else to see here. He can archer if you wear the dex gauntlets, but he's better as a tank with str gauntlets.
Edwin: excellent mage, only exceeded by Baeloth.
Shar-Teel: versatile, can be kept as a dualwielding fighter by improving existing weapon profs, can be an archer (likely Evil's best archer, should use bracers of archery and a +1 composite bow), and can dual to thief right away. If dualled early, can be better thief than Monty, but if you like backstabbing, I would dual late to be a solid fighter.
Dorn: kills things dead. Biggest bruiser.
Eldoth: sleaze to the max. Strictly speaking, another mage is much better, since Eldoth is basicly a wand user with a couple spells. If using him, look for spells thst improve per caster level, as Bards do level fast. He's not utterly useless, but *is* Evil's weakest link. Still, feel free to try him; powerful isnt always the most fun.
Tiax: Yes, Tiax! He is surprisingly good, but is less thief than Monty. Ideally, if you take another thief, try not to boost overlapping skills. Tiax has an awesome Summon Ghast ability, making him VERY strong.
Baeloth: Acceptably applied alliterative appeal, always adds awesome arcane assistance after availability assured. Overwhelmingly overtly overly overpowered, but in a good way.
If your rep gets too low, you'll trigger Flamming Fist groups, which are tough and give poopy xp. Kill a few if you like, but they arent really worth it. Overall, Evil is weak on ranged combat, has no pure thief, but has the best melee and casters. And Eldoth has better stats than Garrick!
I really recommand to do at least one evil playthrough, so many interesting roleplaying possibilities !
I have a question though that has been bugging me. I always hear about how awesome Edwin is and now this Baeloth guy comes along supposeably better than Edwin.
Is it possible for Charname to ever become a more powerful mage at anytime during the series (all the way through ToB) than these two guys? Is there an obtainable item that gives extra spells per day similiar to their special items that is useable by Charname?
I just find it funny that there are party members in the game that Charname could not hope to become more powerful than. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, being that you are the son of a god in the canon. Anyway, I hope there is some way around this. Thanks for the great comments.
In the end, Charname can't cast as much spells per day than Edwin that's true, but he is going to be more powerful (with the Amulet of Power for example that Edwin can't equip).
Edwin is considered awesome because his specialty is the best, he has 18 int, and has good constitution. He only gets 1 extra spell per level, which isnt gamebreaking until 8th lvl spells. He is MUCH easiee to keep alive han Xzar or Xan, and invoker is a terrible specialty by most standards. The Amulet of Power is pretty boss, and Edwin cant use it.
Remember, your character gets Bhaalpowers, Slayers, and a flipping pocket plane, so you shouldnt complain!
Also, what makes a Wild Mage possibly better, and what is so special about a gnome illusionist/cleric?
It just kind of makes me wonder what the point of being a charname mage would be if there are just plenty of better choices in game. I assume the ability to have overall better stats and wear the amulet of power makes you almost on / on par with an Edwin/Baeloth?
I guess the developers are just human like us. We cannot expect every one of their decisions to make perfect sense. Even this day in age.
Edwin CAN be outperformed by either a very well designed sorcerer, and probably by a Wild Mage, definately by either in BG2. Wild Mages get the Reckless Dwoemer, which can cast 9th level spells. Its suicide at low levels, but amazing at high levels.
A gnome cleric/illusionist combines enormous versatility of casting both types of spells with a very good specialization, faster casting via robes and amulet, and incredible durability from shorty saves. Heck, you can have 20 int and wis during BG1. You can use shields during BG1 and until you pickup the Staff of the Magi (perfect for illusionists!), and where useful you can sequence etc divine spells, which can be a big benefit at times. Its a crazy-powerful caster, and extremely well rounded. Divine spells can help save key spell slots, like True Sight... try it sometime!
Edwin requires a potion to cast Wish, so he's not the powergaming ideal at high levels. *shrug* He is amazing as a combat mage, but his utility options arent as ideal due to his school.
I don't remember him being an NPC in either BG or BG:EE
He's an 'easter egg' NPC. Your PC has to be level 5+. You can encounter him Larswood.
Personally, while also doing a good run in BG2 with my Cavalier, I am also gonna start off with a evil Halfling Assassin, and my plan is to kill Firebeard Elvenhair before I leave and see what happens after that. Imoen is getting dismissed and Xzar and Montaron are going to be my first companions. We'll see where it goes from there.
Now I know I grew up playing MMORPG's like Everquest where they had the same mechanic, but I thought that the D&D universe would be much more leanient with what you could be, at least the P&P DM's I remember used to allow you to be whatever you wanted to be.
That really kind of depresses me. A gnome can be a barbarian, but not a ranger, bard, sorcerer or monk. That just does not make sense to me. Oh well, I guess I will get used to it eventually. Man, I guess I really haven't played this game in FOREVER. >.<
In 2E you even had some restrictions for the maximum level you could get ! For example a Half-Orc could only reach level 6 (or something like that) as a Cleric, yes that's totally right. When you reach level 6 you were just f**ked and couldn't progress anymore.
The only race that could progress without limitations was Human.
You can fix that by downloading the BG3 Tweakpack, there is a component in this mod that allows every character to become what they want, even dual class or multiclass.
What's pretty nice is that you can play and roleplay a character really cool and awesome this way, if you have a good idea behind.
The only combos that are gamebreaker and I would avoid to be "legit" are Barbarian (or Dwarven Defender) multiclass with Cleric. Because with these two you can reach 105% (115%) physical damage reduction because of the Defender of Eastheven (20% passive + 40% HLA (50% Defensive Stance) + 25% Armor of Faith + 20% DoE) which is course wasn't intended and can break the game.
But even then, you could get your Armor of Faith dispelled, you can get killed by magic and the immunity only come in late game so even this combo is actually not invincible.
Playing a Dwarf Skald or an Elf Druid for example is considered totally legit by the forumites (I can't speak for everyone obviously).
As to playing an evil character I suggest going with smart evil. A highly charismatic and intelligent villain who manipulates people for their own goals. Their high reputation will mean better discounts and less interference from the law. You can carry out your nefarious deeds, while people believe you to be a trustworthy, honorable individual.
The BG2 tweakpack has a component that stops evil NPCs from leaving no matter your reputation. It makes a lot more sense to me. NPCs like Edwin or Kagain are likely to appreciate fooling others for a higher reward.
Also guys, not to go too far off topic, but I heard a rumor that poisoning casters disables their casting? Is this true, or is it a bug in the gameplay? I read this in an old post about the Swashbuckler class and poison weapons by @Southpaw.
In BG2, things like Creeping Doom work well to shut down casters.
With the last enemy dead, she turned to Phaendris and apologized for involving them, saying that had she not they would’ve been elbow deep in her brains. Phaendris, who had been slightly wounded, glared at her, but rather than gutting the woman as she would have liked, she instead told her “That’s well and good, but custom dictates that you dump a load of gold into my hands.” To Phaendris’ dismay, the woman said that she had very little gold. She then said that she could offer her something much more useful, however. Phaendris raised an eyebrow and asked what it was, to which the obnoxious little woman said “My talents! I’m an accomplished mage. I managed to send Ekandor… Uh, somewhere. You saw!” Phaendris sighed before responding “I get the impression that you didn’t really intend for that to happen.” The woman then grinned and said “Since when has intent ever mattered outside of the courts! I got the job done! What do you say? I could really use some new friends.” At this point Phaendris looked at Xzar and Montaron. She stared at them for a moment before kicking Neera to the ground and yelling “Restrain her arms so she can’t cast!” Xzar giggled and Montaron grinned maliciously. Phaendris whispered to the woman “If you have no money to pay us, then we’ll just take your equipment. It seems quite nice.” The woman’s eyes widened, but before she could speak Phaendris clamped a hand over her mouth. They then took everything she had, which wasn’t much. A magical robe, a magical staff, and a bag with a few gems inside. They then released her after telling her that she should be happy they didn’t gut her. She started babbling about calling the Flaming Fist, but Phaendris cut her off with “And what will that do? You have no evidence. As for these dead men, they’re obviously Thayans. The Fist won’t care. Run away, little elf.”
Neera couldn't have done a thing, which is why my character chose that course of action. This is the kind of thing that a smart evil character would do. I wish I had a non-roleplayed example to give, but it'll have to do. So no, smart evil isn't neutral, unless it's not really smart evil.
That sounds like a pretty cool mod.
It would seriously enhance the flavor of the Dragon Disciple. Give it a nice nutty cheese flavor. But quite awesome nonetheless.
That's actually one of the things I hate most about the Valen mod: if she's in the party, she'll take the decision out of your hands by giving Adalon's eggs to the demon. Her justification for that is simply because she's evil, but it's also incredibly dumb.
To use another example, in NWN: Hordes of the Underdark, there's a point where you can choose to side with the Valsharess and betray the Seer. It's obviously meant to be an evil alternative to the Battle of Lith My'athar, except even Evil characters have absolutely no reason to trust the Valsharess - she's tried to kill you more than once, and you already know she's a very, very treacherous person. Helping the Seer is the "Good" choice, but it's also the Smart Evil choice because you know for sure that the Seer won't stab you in the back when you're done.