Give Dragon Disciples a strength bonus instead of a constitution bonus
elminster
Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
@Madhax had proposed changes to the kit in a previous thread but its since been archived.
That out of the way here is my spiel.
Honestly the idea that they would get a constitution bonus instead of a strength bonus never made much sense to me. I'm sure it makes sense in 3rd edition but not 2nd edition.
For one thing in the case of sorcerers having above 16 constitution really only lets you drink more alcohol, avoid fatigue, and get a minor form of regeneration (1 hp/turn at 20 constitution and a bit better at higher levels). Since sorcerers already really have lot of leeway when it comes to their stat distribution (they don't need intelligence for anything related to their spells) getting 16 con even with a roll of 75 really isn't that difficult.
While a strength bonus itself wouldn't do much (given your limited APR) it would at least let you be a pack mule.
The main reason I suggest a strength bonus instead is because it doesn't make sense from a game lore standpoint given that you are supposed to be at least part dragon (from some distant past relative) and that as I understand it as you grow with level you are gradually unlocking more (or expanding on) power granted to you by your dragon heritage. The fact is that the majority of the dragons you fight in BG2 have 16 or less constitution but all of them have 25 strength.
Saladrex: 25 strength, 15 constitution
Abazigal: 25 strength, 22 constitution
Draconis (both in and outside dragon form): 25 strength, 16 constitution
Firkraag: 25 strength, 15 constitution
Thaxll'ssillyia (yea even I had to look up the spelling of the name): 25 strength, 15 constitution.
Nizidramanii'yt: 25 strength, 21 constitution.
Dolrassa: 25 strength, 15 constitution.
Ixthezzys: 25 strength, 15 constitution.
Adalon: 25 strength, 19 constitution.
Fll'Yissetat: 25 strength, 15 constitution. (same with the Watcher's Keep green dragon)
As you can see all of the red dragons you fight (which is really what the game implies is your heritage given that you have fire resistance and breathe fire) have 15 constitution (that includes the generic red dragon file that I didn't bring up here).
So basically I'm asking that you please change this to a strength bonus because it makes more sense.
That out of the way here is my spiel.
Honestly the idea that they would get a constitution bonus instead of a strength bonus never made much sense to me. I'm sure it makes sense in 3rd edition but not 2nd edition.
For one thing in the case of sorcerers having above 16 constitution really only lets you drink more alcohol, avoid fatigue, and get a minor form of regeneration (1 hp/turn at 20 constitution and a bit better at higher levels). Since sorcerers already really have lot of leeway when it comes to their stat distribution (they don't need intelligence for anything related to their spells) getting 16 con even with a roll of 75 really isn't that difficult.
While a strength bonus itself wouldn't do much (given your limited APR) it would at least let you be a pack mule.
The main reason I suggest a strength bonus instead is because it doesn't make sense from a game lore standpoint given that you are supposed to be at least part dragon (from some distant past relative) and that as I understand it as you grow with level you are gradually unlocking more (or expanding on) power granted to you by your dragon heritage. The fact is that the majority of the dragons you fight in BG2 have 16 or less constitution but all of them have 25 strength.
Saladrex: 25 strength, 15 constitution
Abazigal: 25 strength, 22 constitution
Draconis (both in and outside dragon form): 25 strength, 16 constitution
Firkraag: 25 strength, 15 constitution
Thaxll'ssillyia (yea even I had to look up the spelling of the name): 25 strength, 15 constitution.
Nizidramanii'yt: 25 strength, 21 constitution.
Dolrassa: 25 strength, 15 constitution.
Ixthezzys: 25 strength, 15 constitution.
Adalon: 25 strength, 19 constitution.
Fll'Yissetat: 25 strength, 15 constitution. (same with the Watcher's Keep green dragon)
As you can see all of the red dragons you fight (which is really what the game implies is your heritage given that you have fire resistance and breathe fire) have 15 constitution (that includes the generic red dragon file that I didn't bring up here).
So basically I'm asking that you please change this to a strength bonus because it makes more sense.
Post edited by elminster on
12
Comments
I like the idea of an str bonus, as cons is totally useless unless you deliberately take a lowish (12?) cons, no benefit. Str at least is handy.
A DD, being a sorcerer, already doesn't need INT so we can simply put maximum points into STR and DEX thus making him a character with excellent surviving and usability (carrying weight) stats. And if, as an addition, a DD gets innate bonuses to STR, it could become rediculous. Such high bonuses to damage and to hit would look strange on a wizard.
So, maybe a CON bonus for a DD is not the best variant, but it's still not so balance-harming as a STR bonus.
And while I despise them using any 3rd edition based kits period, the Dragon Disicple IS a str heavy kit in it's source material...and requires a sorcerer or bard to even take, so...that argument honestly doesn't hold any water at all.
At best, you end up being a pack-mule. OR still end up dealing less non-magical damage then basically every other character can..except maybe druids......
Dragons have 25 STR because they are Dragons.
Dragon Disciple should get STR bonuses because:
1) They are descended from dragons, therefore, they get some of their physical strength.
2) CON increases are useless to a mage except to get regen.
3) Dragon Disciple is based on a 3E PrC, the PrC gives +8 STR, + 2 CON , +2 INT, +2 CHA.
4) STR is more favorable for mages because of carrying capacities and using darts/throwing daggers.
5) Yes you can use a belt for the same results but that is wasted on a Sorcerer. Free STR increases are not.
A Dragon Disciple is based on the spirit of the 3E Dragon Disciple PrC (or Half-Dragon template) and therefore it should be changed to STR so it's closer to it.