Did George R.R. Martin copy Ed Greenwood?
TethorilofLathander
Member Posts: 427
I know that a lot of fantasy takes from previous similar stories. For example:
Lord of the Rings took a lot from Norse Mythology
Dungeons and Dragons took a lot from Lord of the Rings
However, sometimes the name similarities are all too suspicious.
In Game of Thrones we have the Iron Throne, which is quite literally a throne made of iron. Though I bet when fans of Baldur's Gate, who also got into Game of Thrones, saw this they were shocked. The Iron Throne in Baldur's Gate is, as we know, a building for trade, but the similarities of the two being deceptive, rich powerhouses is suspicious.
Now, this I could easily see as being coincidental if it were actually the case. Iron Throne as a title isn't exactly a tricky name to put to a structure (just look on google images and you'll find thousands of varieties). However, it struck me that there are a few more strong similarities. The Spine of the World is a long stretch of icy tipped mountains that is often referred to as "The Wall". In Game of Thrones we have an ice wall also referred to as "The Wall". Beyond both versions of the wall lay mysteries, barbarians and icy tundras. Generally these images I would imagine were meant to be a fantasy representation of Hadrian's Wall in England/Scotland.
The final comparison I can make (other than the obvious ones like dragons, magic and alchemy) is that the landscapes are quite similar. As mentioned before we have the icy tundras at the northern most point of areas of Westeros and Faerun. Then we have northern peoples, similar to medieval age cultures (Winterfell and Neverwinter). Going more towards the centre of the regions we have the Iron Thrones (in Kings Landing and Baldur's Gate). Then as we travel further south it becomes even more suspicious. The southern lands in both fantasy worlds are desert-like tundras (if my sources are correct). Dorne and Calimsham.
It all smells very fishy to me, especially considering Game of Thrones was written about 5 years after these sort of places were created.
(Better blame House Tully)
Thoughts?
Lord of the Rings took a lot from Norse Mythology
Dungeons and Dragons took a lot from Lord of the Rings
However, sometimes the name similarities are all too suspicious.
In Game of Thrones we have the Iron Throne, which is quite literally a throne made of iron. Though I bet when fans of Baldur's Gate, who also got into Game of Thrones, saw this they were shocked. The Iron Throne in Baldur's Gate is, as we know, a building for trade, but the similarities of the two being deceptive, rich powerhouses is suspicious.
Now, this I could easily see as being coincidental if it were actually the case. Iron Throne as a title isn't exactly a tricky name to put to a structure (just look on google images and you'll find thousands of varieties). However, it struck me that there are a few more strong similarities. The Spine of the World is a long stretch of icy tipped mountains that is often referred to as "The Wall". In Game of Thrones we have an ice wall also referred to as "The Wall". Beyond both versions of the wall lay mysteries, barbarians and icy tundras. Generally these images I would imagine were meant to be a fantasy representation of Hadrian's Wall in England/Scotland.
The final comparison I can make (other than the obvious ones like dragons, magic and alchemy) is that the landscapes are quite similar. As mentioned before we have the icy tundras at the northern most point of areas of Westeros and Faerun. Then we have northern peoples, similar to medieval age cultures (Winterfell and Neverwinter). Going more towards the centre of the regions we have the Iron Thrones (in Kings Landing and Baldur's Gate). Then as we travel further south it becomes even more suspicious. The southern lands in both fantasy worlds are desert-like tundras (if my sources are correct). Dorne and Calimsham.
It all smells very fishy to me, especially considering Game of Thrones was written about 5 years after these sort of places were created.
(Better blame House Tully)
Thoughts?
Post edited by Metalloman on
1
Comments
Also, I'd say the fact that between the 5000 pages of ASoIaF and who knows how many of FR you found one thing that has the same name (but doesn't represent the same thing) is a fairly weak case for your claim.
Actually, I think that all similarities are purely coincidental:)
Also when planning climatic regions you can't do much than copying Earth settings or do the opposite: everything else will imply different physics and so you'll consequentially have a high fantasy world with a great unrealistic feeling, that it could be explained with Power Word: Magic! but not always will give you complete satisfaction.
Recent fantasy failed to give me satisfaction for a reason or another...
As for the north having barbarians, the middle having more developed cities, and the "south" having deserts I would argue that probably would mirror a roman view of the world . I don't think its a new concept in fantasy.
Someone must sue someone...and faaast!
Just to say guys I'm not making this post to flame or aggravate people, if anything it's to get some interesting discussion on fantasy, other similarities and friendly banter
It's like Galileo Galilei all over again!
1: Westeros looks very similar to England - it even has a Wall, north of which is a scary land full of monsters and grumkins and snarks (better known as The Scottish ;-) ).
2: Lannister and Stark are obviously derived from Lancaster and York, who were the two big rival houses during the 15th century, which every noble pledged support to one of, and one could, quite literally, wake up a good and true subject of the king and go to bed a vile rebel and a traitor, simply for siding with the house that happened to lose a particular battle.
3: Even the whole "exiled noble comes back and brings peace and unity to the land" thing is basically what happened when Henry Tudor won the Battle of Bosworth Field (and besmirched the good name of King Richard III in the process in order to secure his new position), and although we don't officially know the ending of SoIaF yet, I think we can all guess what it's going to be.
As for the rest...well, fantasy tends to follow a similar mould. If anything, SoIaF breaks the mould quite a bit by not including the classic races of elves and dwarves...Tyrion Lannister is the only person referred to as "a dwarf", and it's more of a deformity than an actual race and culture. Sure, it has giants and dragons, but those have been part of mythology for a long time. Just about every culture in the world has dragons of some sort, and ancient cultures believed in magic and worshipped all kinds of deities.
Finally, most fantasy worlds have a structure similar to our own. It's logical to assume that north of the equator, furthest from the sun, is cold and icey and full of rugged barbarians (read: "vikings"), while the bits on the equator and closest to the sun are full of deserts and therefore based on either Africa, India, or the Muslim countries, and there is nearly always a country based on feudal Japan which supplies the world with ninjas and samurai. And katanas, of course, which, as we all know, are super weapons that can move at the speed of light and cut through titanium like a hot knife through butter... :rolleyes:
Anyway...personally I think 'no', he didn't. The only real link with FR is the name "iron throne", and in SoIaF's case, it is because it is literally that: a throne constructed from iron. In FR, it is an organisation.
The truth is out there
I want to believe
Also, just like in Westeros, England is populated mainly by the descendants of German and Danish invaders, and the people who live north of Hadrian's Wall have a tendency to not like us English. There are even redheaded women there, though I can't speak for whether or not they like to remind Englishmen of how little they know. ;-)