Though her starting spells in bg2 is always weaker compared to what she had at the end bg1 in my party.
LOL! Yes. Any Mage in any of my parties at the end of BG1 always has a full spellbook (well, full so far as spells are included in BG1, so most everything up to level 4 spells, and a few level 5 spells). It's always an RP mystery to me how they came to lose so much knowledge in the time between the games!
Understand that "Known" spells aren't strictly speaking that. Sure you have to "Learn" them, but that means that you have scribed them into your spell book. If you lose your book, or it is destroyed or whatever, those spells are gone for good until you find them again. And then you have to scribe them all over again, including the chance to mess up.
So Irenicus, or some other event, caused them to lose their books and hey-presto they have to start again.
Specially in Imoen's case. I'm sure Irenicus took away her spellbook. A mage's spellbook is equivalent to a fighter's sword or a rogue's daggers/bow.
The (relatively) small spell selection she's left with are the spells she memorized. Kind of like your favorite quotes from a book or movie. You can't quote the whole film/book from cover to cover, but you do remember your favorite parts.
Specially in Imoen's case. I'm sure Irenicus took away her spellbook. A mage's spellbook is equivalent to a fighter's sword or a rogue's daggers/bow.
The (relatively) small spell selection she's left with are the spells she memorized.
Yes, okay, granted. I guess it's not too hard to RP after all.
Still, it's surprising that Imoen and Edwin and Neera all had such a mishap, and that it also looks as if it probably also happened to BG1 Mages who have a non-playable cameo in BG2 (Xzar and Quayle). Are all Mages careless, or something?
Specially in Imoen's case. I'm sure Irenicus took away her spellbook. A mage's spellbook is equivalent to a fighter's sword or a rogue's daggers/bow.
The (relatively) small spell selection she's left with are the spells she memorized. Kind of like your favorite quotes from a book or movie. You can't quote the whole film/book from cover to cover, but you do remember your favorite parts.
From that perspective, any Charname Wizard should technically start all the way from scratch. They never say that you find your spell book lying around. Ah well, continuity issues can be overlooked.
Neera, I always thought would have blown up multiple spellbooks because of her wild magic. Even without her wild magic, it's not like she's the most organized person out there. Edwin though, I'd be hard pressed to find an RP reason why he lost his spells. In a good playthrough that's easy to justify because quite frankly, I never pick him up to begin with. In an evil playthrough however, his lust for power, well-laid out plans, and organized demeanor doesn't really justify him just losing the spells he's learned...
From that perspective, any Charname Wizard should technically start all the way from scratch. They never say that you find your spell book lying around. Ah well, continuity issues can be overlooked.
You know I actually roleplay that on a Fighter Mage playthrough. I pick the spells I think will be most useful for me, assign 1 per slot and delete the rest. After all, a mage should be able to easily recall a spell like stoneskin which he uses everyday, but some of the more obscure/specialized spells shouldn't be something you'd recall without looking at your notes.
Back on track, I failed to mention that Neera > Edwin for another reason:
Yes, the bad effects can possibly be disastrous. But we're assuming the right equipment, level, and spell effects on both mages. Spell cast at twice their level? Getting a full heal on all members of the party? I particularly like effect 80-84. I've had some really great luck with either a star sapphire showing up, or a time stop scroll dropping from an ogre.
^ This. Why introduce an interesting class to the game, and then hand the player items and abilities that effectively nullify one of its most basic characteristics?? Oh except it naturally leaves intact the cheesy munchkin aspects of the class.
This is actually becoming a trend with Beamdog. They've added - a wild mage who very quickly loses any downside to being 'wild' - a blackguard. 'nuff said. - a sorcerer... but sorcerers aren't OP enough already, so let's give him *more* spells (!) and magic resistance, that would make him über-kewl! - a thief... oh but with 20 STR and unkillable. - for funsies, let's throw in a non-magic-user class that can stop time.
I'm used to games with modding boards full of superweapons and other puerile, cheesy crap. But Baldur's Gate has become the one game where the modding community actually spends more effort toning down the excesses of the devs. Is this company run by 12 year-olds?
Great legacy for stewardship of what was the greatest CRPG of all time...
On a side note... Rasaad is refreshingly bland compared to the other NPC powerhouses.
On a side note... Rasaad is refreshingly bland compared to the other NPC powerhouses.
If you mean that seriously, then I can only assume that you haven't actually tried using him much. Rasaad has a substantial and interesting story, and in ToB he's a one-man army - Monks get really powerful at high levels.
If you mean that seriously, then I can only assume that you haven't actually tried using him much. Rasaad has a substantial and interesting story, and in ToB he's a one-man army - Monks get really powerful at high levels.
I am serious. I've gone through his storyline in BGEE and SoA, and although he does have a good story - his abilities, compared to a CHARNAME's build leaves much to be desired. unlike Dorn and Neera who are in the top 3 for their respective party types, and Hexxat who is the best thief before Imoen shows up in Chapter 4. Compared to Keldorn or Anomen, who shares the same party type he would be taking (basically front-line fighter), he sucks. He compares to Minsc, but I prefer Minsc because besides as a front-line fighter, he's great as a ranged character as well.
Though her starting spells in bg2 is always weaker compared to what she had at the end bg1 in my party.
LOL! Yes. Any Mage in any of my parties at the end of BG1 always has a full spellbook (well, full so far as spells are included in BG1, so most everything up to level 4 spells, and a few level 5 spells). It's always an RP mystery to me how they came to lose so much knowledge in the time between the games!
Oh its because their dead and a lonely dopplerganger has taken your mage's place. Why? Because the lonely dopplerganger just want's to be closer to your compassionate heart.
If you mean that seriously, then I can only assume that you haven't actually tried using him much. Rasaad has a substantial and interesting story, and in ToB he's a one-man army - Monks get really powerful at high levels.
I am serious. I've gone through his storyline in BGEE and SoA, and although he does have a good story - his abilities, compared to a CHARNAME's build leaves much to be desired.
Well obviously you could build a protagonist Monk with better stats, who would certainly be less feeble in the early stages when Monks struggle, but in the later stages (when you've got a full set of stat-boosting items) that becomes less significant.
If you haven't taken Rasaad through ToB as well as SoA, then you haven't seen how great he becomes, when he eventually reaches full power. I was surprised and impressed, it's quite a sight.
... unlike Dorn and Neera who are in the top 3 for their respective party types, and Hexxat who is the best thief before Imoen shows up in Chapter 4. Compared to Keldorn or Anomen, who shares the same party type he would be taking (basically front-line fighter), he sucks.
Not really, Rasaad just develops later, which is a feature of being a Monk. In ToB, and with suitable equipment, Rasaad may possibly be the very strongest front-liner of all!
I haven't yet tested this comparison side-by-side with all of the others, but I completed a whole-saga run a while ago in which my front row was Dorn and Rasaad. (Obviously that's an unnatural combination, but I was deliberately experimenting with the new NPCs.) Obviously Dorn was streets ahead in kill-stats throughout BG1ee and for at least the first half of BG2ee:SoA. However, in late SoA Rasaad started catching up fast, and in ToB Rasaad went streaking ahead - Rasaad pulled ahead even in whole-game kill-stats, not just current-chapter stats. (And this was an un-gimped Dorn who hadn't sacrificed his Blackguard powers.) By the final battle, Dorn's whole-game kill-stats for BG2ee were 32%/32%, and Rasaad's were 36%/35% (and of course the comparison was even more favourable to Rasaad on a current-chapter basis).
So in the end, Rasaad actually turned out to be a better front-liner than Dorn overall, even though that might come as a considerable surprise to many players. All I can say to players who find this difficult to believe is "try it and see for yourself".
I haven't yet tested Rasaad in side-by-side comparison with the other Good-aligned front-liners, although I'll get around to it in due course. I've no doubt at all that he'll be a substantially stronger front-liner than Anomen (whom I don't even usually use as a front-liner, I usually use him as second-row support), but I'm not so sure how the comparison with Keldorn will work out. Maybe Keldorn will outperform Rasaad ... but if so, then I doubt it'll be by much.
He compares to Minsc, but I prefer Minsc because besides as a front-line fighter, he's great as a ranged character as well.
Certainly I agree that Rasaad has relatively little to offer as a ranged character, he needs to be in melee to be effective ... but eventually he can do that really, really well. Minsc is certainly good in the earlier stages, but later, when ranged attack is less relevant, I'm sure Rasaad would perform better than Minsc. The same would apply to Valygar. Mazzy might be an interesting comparison, since her ranged attack remains more useful, and she's also better than many people realise in melee.
A very interesting test would be comparing Rasaad side-by-side with Sarevok in ToB. Since Rasaad is distinctly better than Dorn at that stage, he might even be able to give Sarevok some serious competition.
compared to a CHARNAME's build leaves much to be desired.
Well, I once played a Half-Orc Dark Moon Monk... It was a very easy run, and by the end of ToB I had natural 24 STR so I don't think comparing Rasaad with that build is even legit.
If you mean that seriously, then I can only assume that you haven't actually tried using him much. Rasaad has a substantial and interesting story, and in ToB he's a one-man army - Monks get really powerful at high levels.
I am serious. I've gone through his storyline in BGEE and SoA, and although he does have a good story - his abilities, compared to a CHARNAME's build leaves much to be desired. unlike Dorn and Neera who are in the top 3 for their respective party types, and Hexxat who is the best thief before Imoen shows up in Chapter 4. Compared to Keldorn or Anomen, who shares the same party type he would be taking (basically front-line fighter), he sucks. He compares to Minsc, but I prefer Minsc because besides as a front-line fighter, he's great as a ranged character as well.
Monks have always been overpower late SoA/TOB. To say Rasaad useless because he's stats aren't as good as a main character monk is asinine.
Monks have always been overpower late SoA/TOB. To say Rasaad useless because he's stats aren't as good as a main character monk is asinine.
I'm sorry, am I not entitled to my own opinion? Monks in general have always been overpowered during the late game, but for my good-aligned parties and comparing him to Keldorn (Holy Avenger, OPed Inquisitor class) and an upgraded Anomen (Basically a warpriest, and becomes infinitely better once his storyline's completed) Rasaad is an NPC I usually just do the sidequests for the items and XP then dump right after.
Opinions are fine and you are absolutely entitled to yours. I think where people are stepping up is that you are expressing quantifiable inaccuracy and calling your opinion. He categorically and quantifiably isn't useless. You don't LIKE him. That's an opinion and different matter.
More to the point, this thread isn't even about Rasaad. There are more than a few that are. Now, back to how much Edwin sucks!
Thank you for putting the thread back on track. Perhaps i'll try to play Rasaad all the way tthrough TOB in a subsequent playthrough, my experience with him from BG:EE and SoA has left me with a skewed view.
I wish they kept a copy of BGEE's version of the ring of wizardry around somewhere in SoA/ToB. Double the spells at first level would be a dream for Neera. Actually, even a CHARNAME wild mage might find it better than the other versions. +1 5th, 6th, and 7th spell slot is nothing compared to 10 time stops? (LOL)
I wish they kept a copy of BGEE's version of the ring of wizardry around somewhere in SoA/ToB. Double the spells at first level would be a dream for Neera. Actually, even a CHARNAME wild mage might find it better than the other versions. +1 5th, 6th, and 7th spell slot is nothing compared to 10 time stops? (LOL)
More like three Time Stops, five self-targeted fireballs, a cow and a sex change.
I wish they kept a copy of BGEE's version of the ring of wizardry around somewhere in SoA/ToB. Double the spells at first level would be a dream for Neera. Actually, even a CHARNAME wild mage might find it better than the other versions. +1 5th, 6th, and 7th spell slot is nothing compared to 10 time stops? (LOL)
More like three Time Stops, five self-targeted fireballs, a cow and a sex change.
I really encourage you to try out Neera with all the sweet bells and whistles (i,e, robe of Hayes, circlet from ToB, Greater Chaos Shield, Chaos Shield) up - Not to mention the high levels. That ratio will definitely change to 7 time stops, 1 double hitpoints, 3 random gems, and a random powerful item looted from a gibberling.
Specially in Imoen's case. I'm sure Irenicus took away her spellbook. A mage's spellbook is equivalent to a fighter's sword or a rogue's daggers/bow.
The (relatively) small spell selection she's left with are the spells she memorized.
Yes, okay, granted. I guess it's not too hard to RP after all.
Still, it's surprising that Imoen and Edwin and Neera all had such a mishap, and that it also looks as if it probably also happened to BG1 Mages who have a non-playable cameo in BG2 (Xzar and Quayle). Are all Mages careless, or something?
If you Romance Neera btw, there's a pleasant surprise by Chapter 6. Well, at least for me it is - I hated jumping through that extra loop, so when it happened and Neera "expertly" dodged it... well, picturing the look on Bodhi's face? Priceless!
That's exactly what finished off my main character. And at the same time my interest in Neera as a useful caster.
One of the first spells she cast in my party cowed a Vampiric Wolf. At level 2 with no magic weapons other than a +1 dagger, you don't want to fight vampiric wolves. I was most pleased.
Comments
The (relatively) small spell selection she's left with are the spells she memorized. Kind of like your favorite quotes from a book or movie. You can't quote the whole film/book from cover to cover, but you do remember your favorite parts.
Still, it's surprising that Imoen and Edwin and Neera all had such a mishap, and that it also looks as if it probably also happened to BG1 Mages who have a non-playable cameo in BG2 (Xzar and Quayle). Are all Mages careless, or something? Care to bet on that? :-)
Back on track, I failed to mention that Neera > Edwin for another reason:
http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Wild_Surge
Yes, the bad effects can possibly be disastrous. But we're assuming the right equipment, level, and spell effects on both mages. Spell cast at twice their level? Getting a full heal on all members of the party? I particularly like effect 80-84. I've had some really great luck with either a star sapphire showing up, or a time stop scroll dropping from an ogre.
If you haven't taken Rasaad through ToB as well as SoA, then you haven't seen how great he becomes, when he eventually reaches full power. I was surprised and impressed, it's quite a sight. Not really, Rasaad just develops later, which is a feature of being a Monk. In ToB, and with suitable equipment, Rasaad may possibly be the very strongest front-liner of all!
I haven't yet tested this comparison side-by-side with all of the others, but I completed a whole-saga run a while ago in which my front row was Dorn and Rasaad. (Obviously that's an unnatural combination, but I was deliberately experimenting with the new NPCs.) Obviously Dorn was streets ahead in kill-stats throughout BG1ee and for at least the first half of BG2ee:SoA. However, in late SoA Rasaad started catching up fast, and in ToB Rasaad went streaking ahead - Rasaad pulled ahead even in whole-game kill-stats, not just current-chapter stats. (And this was an un-gimped Dorn who hadn't sacrificed his Blackguard powers.) By the final battle, Dorn's whole-game kill-stats for BG2ee were 32%/32%, and Rasaad's were 36%/35% (and of course the comparison was even more favourable to Rasaad on a current-chapter basis).
So in the end, Rasaad actually turned out to be a better front-liner than Dorn overall, even though that might come as a considerable surprise to many players. All I can say to players who find this difficult to believe is "try it and see for yourself".
I haven't yet tested Rasaad in side-by-side comparison with the other Good-aligned front-liners, although I'll get around to it in due course. I've no doubt at all that he'll be a substantially stronger front-liner than Anomen (whom I don't even usually use as a front-liner, I usually use him as second-row support), but I'm not so sure how the comparison with Keldorn will work out. Maybe Keldorn will outperform Rasaad ... but if so, then I doubt it'll be by much. Certainly I agree that Rasaad has relatively little to offer as a ranged character, he needs to be in melee to be effective ... but eventually he can do that really, really well. Minsc is certainly good in the earlier stages, but later, when ranged attack is less relevant, I'm sure Rasaad would perform better than Minsc. The same would apply to Valygar. Mazzy might be an interesting comparison, since her ranged attack remains more useful, and she's also better than many people realise in melee.
A very interesting test would be comparing Rasaad side-by-side with Sarevok in ToB. Since Rasaad is distinctly better than Dorn at that stage, he might even be able to give Sarevok some serious competition.
Monks have always been overpower late SoA/TOB. To say Rasaad useless because he's stats aren't as good as a main character monk is asinine.
Now, back to how much Edwin sucks!
I wish they kept a copy of BGEE's version of the ring of wizardry around somewhere in SoA/ToB. Double the spells at first level would be a dream for Neera. Actually, even a CHARNAME wild mage might find it better than the other versions. +1 5th, 6th, and 7th spell slot is nothing compared to 10 time stops? (LOL)
If you Romance Neera btw, there's a pleasant surprise by Chapter 6. Well, at least for me it is - I hated jumping through that extra loop, so when it happened and Neera "expertly" dodged it... well, picturing the look on Bodhi's face? Priceless!