Why is "shapeshifter" considered such a poor class?
SharGuidesMyHand
Member Posts: 2,580
I was surprised recently to see a thread where shapeshifter was rated as one of the 3 worst classes in the game, right alongside wizard slayer and beastmaster. I then looked back over some archived threads, and I saw that this is actually a widely-held opinion.
I've meddled around with shapeshifter characters a bit, but I've never done an earnest playthrough. Still, I don't see what jumps out as being so terrible about them, unlike beastmaster or wizard slayer. I know that they can't wear armor, but that just means that the character (when not in werewolf form) needs to be treated with the same care as a typical mage. When in werewolf form (which they can maintain for an indefinite amount of time), they seem to be a surprisingly handy tank, or at least a flanker, especially in BG1. It seems to me that a werewolf is one of the very best shapeshifting forms available to a druid, perhaps rivaled only by the avenger's spider form, and (unlike the other druid shapeshifts) is available from level 1 onward. It also seems to make a single class druid much more useful in the early stages of BG1, where they don't really have any powerful spells other than healing.
On the flipside, I have read a number of comments about the werewolf form being "bugged," but I couldn't quite understand what the issue there is.
So what am I missing here? What makes the shapeshifter considered so bad by so many people? And what are the supposedly "buggy" issues with the werewolf form, and is it still bugged?
I've meddled around with shapeshifter characters a bit, but I've never done an earnest playthrough. Still, I don't see what jumps out as being so terrible about them, unlike beastmaster or wizard slayer. I know that they can't wear armor, but that just means that the character (when not in werewolf form) needs to be treated with the same care as a typical mage. When in werewolf form (which they can maintain for an indefinite amount of time), they seem to be a surprisingly handy tank, or at least a flanker, especially in BG1. It seems to me that a werewolf is one of the very best shapeshifting forms available to a druid, perhaps rivaled only by the avenger's spider form, and (unlike the other druid shapeshifts) is available from level 1 onward. It also seems to make a single class druid much more useful in the early stages of BG1, where they don't really have any powerful spells other than healing.
On the flipside, I have read a number of comments about the werewolf form being "bugged," but I couldn't quite understand what the issue there is.
So what am I missing here? What makes the shapeshifter considered so bad by so many people? And what are the supposedly "buggy" issues with the werewolf form, and is it still bugged?
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Comments
You may see things online about what they were "supposed to get". The following post was made in response to that.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/502052/#Comment_502052
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/527068/#Comment_527068
In essence, you are exactly and completely correct.
Cernd.
Its really only ToB or very rare battles in SoA (dragons would be an example) where it has issues defensively. Even Iron/Adamantine Golems, who normally have very low Thac0 by SoA standards (they have -3 Thac0) will have difficulty hurting you if you are decently equipped (like wearing the amulet that grants poison immunity/are level 15 and have Iron Skins active). You won't be able to hurt them but that is what the rest of your group is for.
Plus honestly in SoA you can make it work as an offensive kit if you really want, but its more in-line with the offensive abilities of a non-warrior. There are some exploits that still work with the kit that can help here. For instance if you have a weapon equipped on your off-hand slot it will give you another APR when you are in form. Couple that with an Improved Haste spell and with the GW form you've got 8 APR. While its true your kit doesn't scale with level even enemies late into SoA tend to have surprisingly bad AC compared to your own party. A mind flayer for instance has 5 AC, a beholder/gauth has 0, Kuo-Toa have 4 to 5, the elementals you encounter in the underdark have around 2, most vampires have between 1 to -2, etc. At levels 13 to 15 with around 6 Thac0 (with the helm of balduran and gauntlets of weapon skill) you definitely won't hit them as much as a fighter would but the situations not as bad as its made out to be.
I've never played a Druid. I do like Cernd though, and even if he is inferior to some others, you always need to change it up. If I were to play with the best party every time, I would never get rid of Edwin or Keldorn, but that would get dull quickly in my opinion.
As for Jaheira, it takes much longer for her to become a level 15 druid than it takes Cernd.
I might be wrong on this, but I think some people just assume that a shapeshifter has to be just as good at attacking as a fighter. No! If a shapeshifter could turn into a greater werewolf and be just as good as a fighter, then what would be the point of using a fighter? I'm happy that Cernd can get anywhere close to being as good at attacking as a fighter.
I don't think it's an underpowered class. The first time I used it I was less than impressed, but it's still a competent divine caster and the shapeshift is useful in a pinch. I only wish it felt more like an integral part of the kit rather than just something for the druid to do once he runs out of spells.
In the entirety of bg1, your form will do fine. At the beginning it's almost boring. In bg2, it's fine at first. By the time it's not you'll have, or be reasonably close to, your greater form. When you get that you'll use for most of the rest of the game. Yes, there are encounters where it just doesn't cut it, and you'll have to shift out. First, those encounters are very rare. Second, you are shifting out to a fully competant druid. If one hasn't acquired the tomes and loot to be in negative ac anyway by that point, one has done something very wrong, regardless of not being able to wear armor. I typically use spears, but there's nothing stopping you from using scimitar/small shield or buckler. The helm of balduran would also be worn.
As for rarely hits targets, I rarely missed. *shrugs*
Sorry for the long rambling, but common opinion goes against my own personal experience, so I try to present another side.
Even better than Balduran's helm is Vhailor's helm. If Cernd has the staff of thunder and lightning or the staff of the woodlands, the simulacrum can just spam those abilities all day long.
Another thing is that the simulacrum would be able to shapeshift into a greater werewolf even if the simulacrum isn't actually level 13 yet (as long as the real shapeshifter is at that level). I'm pretty sure that's the case.
Defensively they are similar to warriors while shapeshifted until around level 15. Attacks per round is similar to an equivalent level warrior. However THACO is worse and damage is significantly worse - 1d6 damage is very poor and the strength bonus is similar to a warrior + strength belt. Once warriors start getting HLA's there's no comparison as shapeshifters don't get any better.
Untransformed they are just a druid who can't wear armor.
If I want a warrior, I use a warrior. If I want a divine caster I use a cleric (who mainly have more useful spells). If I want a bit of both then I use a fighter/cleric or fighter/druid (or even the cheesy ranger/cleric). Essentially, whatever I want from my party member, there are always better options than a shapeshifter.
And, for the cherry on top, Cernd (the NPC shapeshifter) is awful as a character (at least I think so). I realise this isn't anything to do with his class, but it kinda rubs off.
I believe this issue comes down to the classic dichotomy between the powergamer and the roleplayer. The powergamer is oriented, for purposes of BG, toward late ToB. I think the powergamers only really care about whether a character can "pwn" ToB or not.
For the roleplayer, the shapeshifter represents a very powerful character with many story possibilities that reference many cultural archetypes about wolves and werewolves. (Fairy tales like Three Little Pigs and Red Riding Hood, Ten Kingdoms, Once Upon A Time, Grimm, Teen Wolf, True Blood, Vampire Diaries, Twilight, and many, many others).
In contrast to the powergamer, the roleplayer evaluates classes and builds by the total experience of the playing of the character from level one to the end. The powergamer, as far as I can understand him or her from my interactions with the "opposite" side of the dichotomy from mine, is only concerned with the maximum level result of entering "god mode" in the game.
A shapeshifter toon is never going to be a "god mode" toon. That's why the powergamers declare it a "weak" class or kit.
On top of that, those elemental transformation that any druid can have access to, are as good as the gw if not better.
It is a roleplay class it is how I see it, a fighter/druid will wrecked a shapeshifter anyday. So it's really not for its performance that you will play a shapeshifter.
It's a class that needs serious improvement, maybe good regeneration like those ones that you fight. Or maybe poison claw? or permanently hasted? hide in shadows with backstabb ability? detect illusion? or simple a much better thaco.
You have space for 5 party members; plenty of room to take along two of these characters and overshadow Cernd's ability to perform either role.
It's a bit exaggerated though. You'd rather be spellcasting in most boss fights anyway and just keeping the shapeshifts for the weaker enemies to save spells so it's not really all that different. But there's little reason to pick it over the Avenger.
I know, the "druids spells" blah blah blah... But it is not a strong argument at all.
The best reason to like this class would be a good strong (personality) shifter NPC in the game. We don't have any...
From what I know, most players go for Paladins and Mages in the BG games. Then Thieves and Fighters. The druid class is the least playable class in BG. Maybe thats the real reason?
And that is the main reason why this class sucks.
Next you'll say, that he's not a tank or a DD - his main role is supporting and spellcasting. Right?
Then why even bother to pick the shifter class if we can pick a vanilla druid class or other kits with more spellcasting benefits?
Regular druid... no, just no. Barkskin = who gives a f*ck about armor.
The totemic druid summons scale even worse than the werewolf shapeshift imo. I have never once thought 'gee, so glad I had that spirit to help me'! Not to mention 1 Death Spell = bye bye.
That leaves the Shapeshifter and Avenger. Do you want a caster druid with some neat mage spells to up his versatility as well as some niche use extra shifts or one with some (admittedly meager) melee prowess when his spells run out while advancing in levels faster than the fighter/druid multiclass? That's your call.