Yeah, an Aurilite poses serious problems with the storyline. It's unlikely that Hrothgar or Arundel would even approach you for help, and you'd have absolutely no reason to help Kresselack in the resolution of the Vale quests.
Technically, like all cleric kits, it's pretty easy to come up with an idea. Give them, say, Ice Storm as their 1/5 spell and some kind of frozen shield (some combo of stoneskin + fire-shield-esque slow on hit) as their 1/10.
But here's where players (or gameplay) should get creative.
Lysan herself was disguised as a barmaid and was able to infiltrate Kuldahar and spread rumors that stir the populace in unease.
Perhaps if the player's characters were to do the same, they can move on undetected unless they pronounce themselves as the enemies of Kuldahar.
How well did Lysan's plan work out?? Aurilite clerics sound cool, but they really arent practical. Heck, almost nobody would be willing to adventure with them other than Aurilites, and your non-Aurilites would all die of frostbite/pnemonia, or starve after their food is a frozen block. Incidently, an Aurilite wouldn't have a solution for that, and would probably starve on a long journey. It really isnt practical to allow PCs to be Clerics of Auril.
I always thought specific role kits would be nice.. like a battle cleric kit, mostly focusing on melee combat, selfbuffs/healing... Cleric of helm in BG2 did that well, but being forced to use the seeking sword ability was kinda boring. Perhaps allowing 2 pips per weap specialization would be neat.
That and probably an offensive caster cleric and defensive caster cleric. The offensive one could have more spells per level, but not have access to several defensive spells, and the defensive one would be more heals/buffs at the cost of offensive spells.
Those kits could also easily add new spells to benefit eachother. I always felt like clerics lacked a bit in offensive damage spells for exemple...
Quite. I'm not so keen on kits for clerics based on deity. I would rather have kits which play differently to existing clerics, but are suitible for a range of deities.
No, you're going about it the wrong way. A cleric is never going to be able to overcome the advantages of a fighter, so instead you bring faith to the warrior. (Not saying you can't give a warrior-esque perks to a specific kit, but basing the kit on that is going to end with an ineffective kit.) F&A goes on quite a bit about non-priest members of the clergy--what we need are monks/paladins/warriors of the various faiths.
This is one reason I loved 3.x after using it for a bit, if you wanted a warlike priest, even in core it was easy, just take the War domain, and maybe Destruction at lvl 1. You will be a decent warrior, but not quite a Fighter or Barbarian. You can take a couple levels of Fighter, or Barb if your dex is at least 14, and you are going to be very much a warrior priest.
However, you will need your buffs for sure to compete with the Fighters or Barbarians, as you should, and usually you aren't as uber as a pure warrior, but more versatile for sure. If you can upsize, thats going to make you a very, very hard hitter though. 3.x gave clerics some serious buff spells if you can prep and have some space.
Lathander priests make great crusader types in BG, better than Helmites imho. A Warpriest should mostly get more buffing options, especially non-self.
...but thats my point, nobody would let you enter town. Aurilites are outlaws, and hated in the North.
You'd be killed by Hrothgar right at the start.
Allow me to point out the fact that in IWD 2 it is possible to have a Stormlord of Talos in your party and yet your party is still pitted against the bugbear priest of Talos. Kuldahar would still accept your help whether you are evil, a worshipper of Talos or not. They may make remarks about it (Which adds depth to the dialog IMO) My suggestion is a way of covering those plot holes.
How well did Lysan's plan work out?? Aurilite clerics sound cool, but they really arent practical. Heck, almost nobody would be willing to adventure with them other than Aurilites, and your non-Aurilites would all die of frostbite/pnemonia, or starve after their food is a frozen block. Incidently, an Aurilite wouldn't have a solution for that, and would probably starve on a long journey. It really isnt practical to allow PCs to be Clerics of Auril.
How well her plans were executed or not is not really a matter concerning the kits discussion. Aurilites had Barbarians as their mercenary forces and Nickademus as their temple sculptor while they were building the Ice Temple. I'm sure Aurilites have certain tolerance when their long term goals require them to have a more... subtle touch.
Edited to make certain things more clear.
Also these are heavy spoilers, only click on those if you're comfortable with spoilers.
That fellow is a semi-fallen Banite. Aurilites have much more incentive to stick together than nearly any deity, as she's not only actively disliked, she actively seeks to be disliked, and is thus hunted down. Aurilites are never accepted, whereas even Malarite priests try to offer something to the common folk, and Talos is strong enough to not cross lightly. Like Umberlee, Talos can generally be placated, Auril can be placated by living without fire. Not a good strategy in a frozen wasteland! Aurilites type of evil is particularly disliked in the North, and has no 'redeeming qualities'.
The barbarins are not from a civilized tribe iirc, not even sorta. Easthaven and Kuldahar are civilized.
That fellow is a semi-fallen Banite. Aurilites have much more incentive to stick together than nearly any deity, as she's not only actively disliked, she actively seeks to be disliked, and is thus hunted down. Aurilites are never accepted, whereas even Malarite priests try to offer something to the common folk, and Talos is strong enough to not cross lightly. Like Umberlee, Talos can generally be placated, Auril can be placated by living without fire. Not a good strategy in a frozen wasteland! Aurilites type of evil is particularly disliked in the North, and has no 'redeeming qualities'.
The barbarins are not from a civilized tribe iirc, not even sorta. Easthaven and Kuldahar are civilized.
I believe you have helped me even further on reinforcing the idea that Aurilites are even more of a viable kit than before.
I stand corrected, but Bane clerics are also available to players as a class. But If that fellow was a semi-fallen Banite, apparently he could still use those Divine spells. Can that not also apply to the Aurilite, then? Provided that Lysan could have been the zealot who was semi-fallen or the player's party Aurilite is the semi-fallen one.
Like I have stated before. If the Aurilites were being hunted and hated as you proclaimed, Lysan still was able to disguise herself from the populace of Kuldahar. Only exposed when she attempted to bring the eternal cold to Kresselack's tombs. Can the player party's Aurilite not do the same? Even better, allow them to announce their allegience and turn the whole town hostile, it'll make things more interesting.
From my understanding, though, Aurilites were not hunted back in IWD. Lysan only manipulated the town of Kuldahar to pit them (the player party) against the Vale of Shadow, but apparently got herself killed.
Let me try a slightly different angle: how would you feel if a cleric felt obliged to walk into your house on a frozen tundra and threw water/snow on your fires?? Its a divine obligation to do just this. Same with a camp fire. Both cases dangerous in a very unpleasant way, and with neither counterbalance or ability to mitigate (Malarites give food, Maskaran and Banites are economically beneficial, Umberlans can be reliably appeased, etc). Its a special kind of evil jerk that does this sort of thing. This is why Hrothgar would watch newcomers, and Arundel could probably detect your faith even easier. I doubt he frequented the tavern, but uour party needs to directly communicste with him.
Let me try a slightly different angle: how would you feel if a cleric felt obliged to walk into your house on a frozen tundra and threw water/snow on your fires?? Its a divine obligation to do just this. Same with a camp fire. Both cases dangerous in a very unpleasant way, and with neither counterbalance or ability to mitigate (Malarites give food, Maskaran and Banites are economically beneficial, Umberlans can be reliably appeased, etc). Its a special kind of evil jerk that does this sort of thing. This is why Hrothgar would watch newcomers, and Arundel could probably detect your faith even easier. I doubt he frequented the tavern, but uour party needs to directly communicste with him.
By bringing up Lysan Kenji does however bring up an interesting issue. Lysan wouldn't have lasted very long as a barmaid if she was constantly walking into peoples homes and throwing water on the cooking fires, putting out the fire at the tavern/smithy, or putting out the taverns lighting (basically putting out fire wherever she encountered it in Kuldahar). Clearly the game has already given some leeway here, if only for storytelling purposes.
It is true that an Auril's priest would unlikely help Kuldahar -_- Now I don't see the big deal with Hrothgar though, in moment of needs it wouldn't be the first and last time a good aligned character would side with an "enemy", could just create few banters to fix the issue.
BONUS PROFS: Direction sense
Icepriestesses and icepriests have an immunity to cold similar to a permanent resist cold spell. They are immune to natural cold and have a +3 bonus when making saving throws vs. any cold- or ice-based attacks. They suffer no damage from such an attack on a successful saving throw and only half damage on a failed one. Icepriestesses and icepriests can cast frost fingers (as the 1st-level priest spell) once per day. At 3rd level, icepriestesses and icepriests are able to cast frost whip (as the 2nd-level priest spell) once per day. At 5th level, icepriestesses and icepriests are able to case ice blade (as the 4th-level priest spell) once per day. At 8th level, icepriestesses and icepriests are able to cast ice storm or wall of ice (as the 4th-level wizard spells) twice per tenday. At 10th level, icepriestesses and icepriests are able to cast cone of cold (as the 5th-level wizard spell) once per day. At 12th level, icepriestesses and icepriests have the ability to summon an ice para-elemental (as the conjure fire elemental spell) once per tenday. They may do so an additional time per tenday for every level above 12.
OMG SO COOL, FINALLY A KIT WORTH PLAYING! and they have level 7 spell -_-, 7th Level
Heart of Ice (Alteration, Necromancy)
Sphere: Combat, Necromantic Range: Touch Components: S Duration: Permanent Casting Time: 1 round Area of Effect: One creature Saving Throw: Special
see here is a real cleric kit, the hell with those lathanter talos meow meow kits
@DreadKhan Indeed, it does take a special kind of evil jerk that does this sort of thing. I have had full parties of Evil characters that walk right into Arundel's house with him frowning but reluctently accepted my help. Right now you are assuming Arundel is somehow not only able to detect Evil (Which he can't do anything about it) but also detect Faith. (That's a bit of a stretch for your argument's sake)
As elminster has pointed out, it is obvious in both IWD games the Aurilites have shown certain tolerance (even if limited) and even sided with those not really under their banner.
Edit: Now that I've thought about it, it may have been Aurilite's duty to "distinguish fire". But doing so with your suggested approach is shortsighted and a poor plan to execute. In IWD2, the Aurilites amassed an army, built an Ice Temple that blocked the trade route, and allied themselves with the half-dragon lady. All this effort to bring the tyranny of Kuldahar's warmth to an end! HEIL AURIL *cough*
It's something called scheming. If all evil characters were do approach things like you suggested, which is shallow and can be easily thwarted, then, Deities forbid, the Good would have already won the day.
That said a Priest of Auril has another very clear problem. Priests of Auril are not to raise their hand against other Priests of Auril (page 31, section Dogma, of Faith's and Avatars). So even if you could argue that you are working undercover or scheming in some way, this is still an issue (I couldn't find this under the Dogma section for Talos or Talona for instance, so not killing other priests of your god might not a common expectation amongst evil god's clergy).
I think Aurilites are a silly option for roleplay reasons as well, though roleplay aspects aside I personally don't think one of the precious Cleric kit slots should officially be allocated to deities other than Greater or Intermediate. A healthy mix of alignment and flavor out of the more powerful and popular deities makes the most intuitive sense to me. Other deities/kits can be covered by modders, as they seem like niche choices. Along those lines I'd prefer something like this:
Good: Lathander Tymora Selune
Neutral: Helm Tempus Oghma
Evil: Talos Cyric Shar
Bane wouldn't be a bad choice, but I think the Blackguard has a lot of his flavor covered. Tyr's portfolio is too reminiscent of Helm's for me, similarly I feel as if Chautea and Lathander overlap quite a bit. Silvanus and Mielikki seem more fitted to Druids and Rangers. Other than that Sune would be a solid choice, and while I am not personally a fan of Ilmater I can see an argument being made for a Painbearer.
EDIT: To be clear I think it would be fantastic to have options to select most/all deities but given that we have constraints here, both technical and logistical, I figured the metrics I used above made the most sense for the broadest appeal and selection.
Ah thanks Elminster! With another metric it makes the choices even easier That raises another good point: assuming new kits will be ported across the EEs (which may not be the case, but seems likely) it would make sense to select official kit deities that would be viable and consistent with both BG and IWD.
Official kits aside my favorite powers have always been Azuth, Shaundakul, and Gwaeron Windstrom.
Interesting enough though it would also be a different incarnation of Mystra in BG1/2 compared to IWD. Since Midnight took over the portfolio after the Time of Troubles.
Comments
That and probably an offensive caster cleric and defensive caster cleric. The offensive one could have more spells per level, but not have access to several defensive spells, and the defensive one would be more heals/buffs at the cost of offensive spells.
Those kits could also easily add new spells to benefit eachother. I always felt like clerics lacked a bit in offensive damage spells for exemple...
However, you will need your buffs for sure to compete with the Fighters or Barbarians, as you should, and usually you aren't as uber as a pure warrior, but more versatile for sure. If you can upsize, thats going to make you a very, very hard hitter though. 3.x gave clerics some serious buff spells if you can prep and have some space.
Lathander priests make great crusader types in BG, better than Helmites imho. A Warpriest should mostly get more buffing options, especially non-self.
Also these are heavy spoilers, only click on those if you're comfortable with spoilers.
The barbarins are not from a civilized tribe iirc, not even sorta. Easthaven and Kuldahar are civilized.
I stand corrected, but Bane clerics are also available to players as a class. But If that fellow was a semi-fallen Banite, apparently he could still use those Divine spells. Can that not also apply to the Aurilite, then? Provided that Lysan could have been the zealot who was semi-fallen or the player's party Aurilite is the semi-fallen one.
Like I have stated before. If the Aurilites were being hunted and hated as you proclaimed, Lysan still was able to disguise herself from the populace of Kuldahar. Only exposed when she attempted to bring the eternal cold to Kresselack's tombs. Can the player party's Aurilite not do the same? Even better, allow them to announce their allegience and turn the whole town hostile, it'll make things more interesting.
From my understanding, though, Aurilites were not hunted back in IWD. Lysan only manipulated the town of Kuldahar to pit them (the player party) against the Vale of Shadow, but apparently got herself killed.
http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humangods/Auril.htm
It is true that an Auril's priest would unlikely help Kuldahar -_- Now I don't see the big deal with Hrothgar though, in moment of needs it wouldn't be the first and last time a good aligned character would side with an "enemy", could just create few banters to fix the issue.
BONUS PROFS: Direction sense
Icepriestesses and icepriests have an immunity to cold similar to a permanent resist cold spell. They are immune to natural cold and have a +3 bonus when making saving throws vs. any cold- or ice-based attacks. They suffer no damage from such an attack on a successful saving throw and only half damage on a failed one.
Icepriestesses and icepriests can cast frost fingers (as the 1st-level priest spell) once per day.
At 3rd level, icepriestesses and icepriests are able to cast frost whip (as the 2nd-level priest spell) once per day.
At 5th level, icepriestesses and icepriests are able to case ice blade (as the 4th-level priest spell) once per day.
At 8th level, icepriestesses and icepriests are able to cast ice storm or wall of ice (as the 4th-level wizard spells) twice per tenday.
At 10th level, icepriestesses and icepriests are able to cast cone of cold (as the 5th-level wizard spell) once per day.
At 12th level, icepriestesses and icepriests have the ability to summon an ice para-elemental (as the conjure fire elemental spell) once per tenday. They may do so an additional time per tenday for every level above 12.
OMG SO COOL, FINALLY A KIT WORTH PLAYING! and they have level 7 spell -_-,
7th Level
Heart of Ice (Alteration, Necromancy)
Sphere: Combat, Necromantic
Range: Touch
Components: S
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 1 round
Area of Effect: One creature
Saving Throw: Special
see here is a real cleric kit, the hell with those lathanter talos meow meow kits
Indeed, it does take a special kind of evil jerk that does this sort of thing. I have had full parties of Evil characters that walk right into Arundel's house with him frowning but reluctently accepted my help. Right now you are assuming Arundel is somehow not only able to detect Evil (Which he can't do anything about it) but also detect Faith. (That's a bit of a stretch for your argument's sake)
As elminster has pointed out, it is obvious in both IWD games the Aurilites have shown certain tolerance (even if limited) and even sided with those not really under their banner.
Edit: Now that I've thought about it, it may have been Aurilite's duty to "distinguish fire". But doing so with your suggested approach is shortsighted and a poor plan to execute. In IWD2, the Aurilites amassed an army, built an Ice Temple that blocked the trade route, and allied themselves with the half-dragon lady. All this effort to bring the tyranny of Kuldahar's warmth to an end! HEIL AURIL *cough*
It's something called scheming. If all evil characters were do approach things like you suggested, which is shallow and can be easily thwarted, then, Deities forbid, the Good would have already won the day.
Good:
Lathander
Tymora
Selune
Neutral:
Helm
Tempus
Oghma
Evil:
Talos
Cyric
Shar
Bane wouldn't be a bad choice, but I think the Blackguard has a lot of his flavor covered. Tyr's portfolio is too reminiscent of Helm's for me, similarly I feel as if Chautea and Lathander overlap quite a bit. Silvanus and Mielikki seem more fitted to Druids and Rangers. Other than that Sune would be a solid choice, and while I am not personally a fan of Ilmater I can see an argument being made for a Painbearer.
EDIT: To be clear I think it would be fantastic to have options to select most/all deities but given that we have constraints here, both technical and logistical, I figured the metrics I used above made the most sense for the broadest appeal and selection.
Official kits aside my favorite powers have always been Azuth, Shaundakul, and Gwaeron Windstrom.