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Can i force shadow keeper sorcerer dual class without bugs (fatal no way around bugs at least)?

kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,683
Pretty much as the title says. If anyone got this suggar working, i'm very interested in the "how to do".

Dexter

Comments

  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,153
    Without bugs.... Eeeeehhm. Nope.
    You can force it with a Mage, but doing so with a Sorcerer will probably ruin your save/character.

    AstroBryGuyJuliusBorisovkamuizinjackjack
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,683
    K, thx for the opinion @CrevsDaak, but ... anyone else with some more deeply know about the issue? Maybe someone that tried do it already and keep the character during a long run? Just want to know the chances of frustration with this pursue.

  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    Well that's too bad. A multi fighter/sorcerer would be awesome and probably too overpowered but hey, he is THE bhaalspawn after all. I'd totally like to try this build

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited May 2014
    As AstroBryGuy mentioned it's impossible. Can't dual class a sorcerer, bard, monk or paladin with shadowkeeper.

    You can dual both a barbarian and wildmage if you install BG2tweak. You can also do it without BG2tweak, using shadowkeeper because the barbarian and wild mage are made so they are a 'kit' under mage and fighter.

    AstroBryGuyjackjack
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,683
    edited June 2014
    Well, someone tell me if i'm just making nosense comments, but from what i see EE keeper is locked to specific class dual class options, in reason of mechanic limits.

    But:

    Taking the advice of @AstroBryGuy, the engine files probally have an specific dual class files for each combination, so Fighter_Mage is different than fighter single class + Mage single class.

    That being truth, i wonder if it's possible to change for example the Fighter_Mage file and override the part of that file that define the mage's system with the files that define a sorcerer system.

    Doing that would certainly alter every FIghter_mage in the game, including NPCs, thus change all Fighter_mages of the game to another class would be more pratical to avoid bugs.




    However...

    If in the end, what i want is crazy and isn't possible, then i raise the question for another way around:

    The devs already made an kit for sorcerer: the Dragon Disciple.

    So Sorcerer kits aren't hard coded anymore (i believe), or at least the devs have a way around now.

    So, can't we make an sorcerer kit and infuse an Fighter_sorcerer inside this kit? Double the XP rate for level up, insert the fighter special factors of the class in that kit (as con bonus for HP, thac0 progression... and etc) and deal with this mod as an kit in game mechanics but an dual_class in pratical results?


    Obs: In fact, atm, if i can unlock the fighter behavior of HP bonus with constitution to dragon disciples (and even find an way to allow equip of any fighter item and use of spells with heavy/tower shield to them), that alone would be more than enough to make me happy :)!

    Gotural
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,414
    kamuizin said:

    Well, someone tell me if i'm just making nosense comments, but from what i see EE keeper is locked to specific class dual class options, in reason of mechanic limits.

    But:

    Taking the advice of @AstroBryGuy, the engine files probally have an specific dual class files for each combination, so Fighter_Mage is different than fighter single class + Mage single class.

    That being truth, i wonder if it's possible to change for example the Fighter_Mage file and override the part of that file that define the mage's system with the files that define a sorcerer system.

    Doing that would certainly alter every FIghter_mage in the game, including NPCs, thus change all Fighter_mages of the game to another class would be more pratical to avoid bugs.

    That is not externalized. There's no 2da file that controls which class gets spell casting and the mechanics of it. You'd need access to the source code or hack the game binary files.

    As Camdawg wrote in his kit tutorial:
    Spellbooks are available only to spellcasters - Any kit can use innate abilities. However, the spellbooks are tied directly to the spellcasting classes so there is no way to allow a thief kit to memorize spells and cast them using the spellbook interface. The spellbooks are also not interchangeable, meaning tht cleric kits can not access the mage spellbook and vice-versa.
    http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=584
    kamuizin said:

    However...

    If in the end, what i want is crazy and isn't possible, then i raise the question for another way around:

    The devs already made an kit for sorcerer: the Dragon Disciple.

    So Sorcerer kits aren't hard coded anymore (i believe), or at least the devs have a way around now.

    So, can't we make an sorcerer kit and infuse an Fighter_sorcerer inside this kit? Double the XP rate for level up, insert the fighter special factors of the class in that kit (as con bonus for HP, thac0 progression... and etc) and deal with this mod as an kit in game mechanics but an dual_class in pratical results?


    Obs: In fact, atm, if i can unlock the fighter behavior of HP bonus with constitution to dragon disciples (and even find an way to allow equip of any fighter item and use of spells with heavy/tower shield to them), that alone would be more than enough to make me happy :)!

    AFAIK, kits don't get separate XP tables, but you could add an XP penalty effect (effect 104):

    http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net/opcodes/bgee.htm

    You could specify a custom HP table via HPCLASS.2da, but the Warrior HP bonuses for high CON are restricted to warrior classes. A sorcerer kit won't get the extra HP bonus.

    Kits use the parent class' THAC0 progression, saving throws, and proficiency progression. You could add THAC0 bonuses as an effect on level up (like the Kensai and Swashbuckler), as well as saving throw bonuses as appropriate to simulate the better of warrior vs. mage saving throws.

    For items, you could give your kit the FIGHTER_MAGE usability flag. Won't make spells castable in armor, however.

    So, kinda possible, I guess.

    kamuizinJuliusBorisov
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,683
    Well, it's an start at least. We have an initial ground to work. Thx for these replies @Astrobryguy, if not to me, to anyone with the same wish, these are invaluable info to direct how an fighter_sorcerer kit could be done.

    JuliusBorisovCaloNord
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    edited June 2014
    How about this for a workaround:

    Make a Sorceror kit called "Eldritch Knight" (yes, *that* one) which receives:

    advantages:
    +1 Thac0 every 3 levels up to 20
    +1/2 APR at lvl 10 and 20
    + weapon selection every 4 levels (and one extra at lvl 1)
    + ability to specialize in any melee weapon and style (for flavor, probably exclude shields)
    + hit dice: d6

    disadvantages:
    - can cast 1 less spell per level (like DD)
    - caster level reduced by 1/4th (rounded up) to a maximum of 15 (instead of 20)
    - spell progression reduced by 1/4th (e.g. you get your first 3rd level spell at lvl 8 etc.)


    The idea is that you play this as a spellsword where you select buffs for your spells.
    Example: at end of SoA you have an 18th level Edlritch Knight (effective Sorcerer level of 14) that knows
    1 lvl 7 spell, 2 lvl 6 spells, can cast stone skin 4 times a day etc.
    dual wielding katanas for 3APR
    thac0 of 7

    Comparable to Fighter/Mage at same XP -- arguably better for being able to cast your selected buffs more consistently.

  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    By the way if Beamdog released a DLC with nothing but that "Eldritch Knight" kit in it, I'll be glad to pay them $20 now.

    image

    DexterSCARY_WIZARD
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,683
    I would prefer @ygramul, to make the kit simplest as possible, i would use +1 thac0 per x lvls, different spell progression table (that's possible, i already made a different bard table for me for example), flags of permission and restriction... everything to make the nearest possible fighter_sorcerer kit possible.

    The intent i raised is to use the accessory tools to make the thac0, hp, items permissions, spell table progression and anything else approach the maximum possible of an multiclass fighter_mage kit.

    I could make an Fighter_dragon disciple kit as well for fun, just for me (cos it would be absurdly overpowered), or balance it with some hard debuffs as an permantent 50% spell failure chance forever infused on the character (with no way around) or limit that fighter_dragon_disciple to level 7° arcane spells at an maximum (or both, but that would be too much debuff to apply).

  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    I understand. But given my current level of OCD about "fair-play", I would only manage to play a well-balanced kit.

    And spell failure is not a fun way to gimp a class, I think. I'd rather cast less spells than have those spells fail occasionally.

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,683
    Bump.

    Long time ppl :)! So i got an dying wish of play kensai/sorcerer suddently and i remembered this old thread of mine.

    As i'm too much newbie to mod kits yet (specially one so detailed as this one mentioned as solution for kensai/sorcerer) i would like to know if anyone followed these steps or have the intent of do it.

  • Swifty_MageeSwifty_Magee Member Posts: 222
    I'd love it if someone made some sort of spellblade kit that effectively mixed Kensai with Sorcerer. I know the maker of the IWDEE Kit Pack is planning to make more kits for that mod; hopefully a Fighter or a Sorcerer kit that features those traits will be made. Just a Sorcerer that could take 3 or so proficiency points in long swords or katanas and could wear leather armor would be cool with me.

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,683

    I'd love it if someone made some sort of spellblade kit that effectively mixed Kensai with Sorcerer. I know the maker of the IWDEE Kit Pack is planning to make more kits for that mod; hopefully a Fighter or a Sorcerer kit that features those traits will be made. Just a Sorcerer that could take 3 or so proficiency points in long swords or katanas and could wear leather armor would be cool with me.

    I just feel that dragon disciple bonus to con is a waste when we can't sum that to a warrior dual class.

    smeagolheartSwifty_Magee
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