Dragon Fights too Easy
bernardchu
Member Posts: 44
Is it that I'm just lucky or Dragon fights are too easy? or the Weapons in ToB are too powerful.
I recalled 2 instances where dragons died within SECONDS after being hit by Silver Sword.
I got 3 mages in my party, 2 of them casts Lower Resistance and 1 of the cast Greater Malison. Then Sarevok moved in with his Silver Sword and hit the dragon a couple of times, and it died!
Other instances when I fight Dragons, they turned into Squirrels in no time.
Again the same tactics, 3 mages, 2-3 Lower Resistance and 1 Greater Malison.
And lots of Polymorph Other. With Robe of Vecna and Improve Clarity, those castings can be done in no time!
And watch those dragons turned into squirrels.
This is NOT fair, they are suppose to be "fearsome" dragons!
I recalled 2 instances where dragons died within SECONDS after being hit by Silver Sword.
I got 3 mages in my party, 2 of them casts Lower Resistance and 1 of the cast Greater Malison. Then Sarevok moved in with his Silver Sword and hit the dragon a couple of times, and it died!
Other instances when I fight Dragons, they turned into Squirrels in no time.
Again the same tactics, 3 mages, 2-3 Lower Resistance and 1 Greater Malison.
And lots of Polymorph Other. With Robe of Vecna and Improve Clarity, those castings can be done in no time!
And watch those dragons turned into squirrels.
This is NOT fair, they are suppose to be "fearsome" dragons!
0
Comments
HLA is not really necessary, in fact I don't think I even need Robe of Vecna.
You can "package" up 2x Lower Resistance and 1x Greater Malison in a SPELL TRIGGER.
And "package" up 3x Polymorph Other in a SPELL SEQUENCER.
Hit the dragons with these 2 packages and the fight is over in no time! HLA, Robe of Vecna or not.
With a Greater Malison, that Vorpal sword is even more deadlier to Dragons.
I remember tearing down Irenicus defenses really quickly with these spells. And once they're down, my warrior easily beat up Irenicus to tears.
A good trick to use to tear down enemy defenses in group is to Package up 2x Remove Magics and 1x Greater Malison in a Spell Trigger. And give this to your highest level mage.
In my opinion, Polymorph Other spell is waaaay to powerful spell to be placed in 4th Level place.
This transformation is permanent, and anyone transformed in a squirrel is as good as dead.
Therefore Polymorph Other is "comparable" to Imprisonment Spell.
Eventhough Polymorph Other allow Saves but Imprisonment doesn't, mind you Polymorph Other only take 4 casting time, whereas Imprisonment take 9!
Polymorph Other occupy 4th Level slot which mean you can have lots and lots copies, whereas Imprisonment is Level 9 spell.
Because of Polymorph Other is Level 4 spell, you can string 3x of them in a SPELL SEQUENCER. You can't do that with Imprisonment. Coupled with Greater Malison, Polymorph Other is ALMOST the same as Imprisonment. With being 4th Level spell, you can machine gun Polymorph Other and you got yourself an Imprisonment spell on steroid.
For the above mentioned reasons, I think Polymorph Other should be a (at least) level 7 spell, or maybe even 8th.
I turned so many Dragons into squirrels, now I pretty much see Dragons as very angry squirrels with wings.
The sequencers are both high level mage spells and 2nd edition D&D in particular makes high level mages super powerful next to other classes (and this is just more pronounced in BG2 because you don't need ingredients or days of prep time for spells).
If you want to beef dragons up a bit, you're going to have to employ mods, such as Sword Coast Stratagems.
http://www.gibberlings3.net/scs/
4 melee characters with improved haste wailing on a dragon that just had its protections removed and have buffed up strength are gonna basically destroy it in about a minute unless mods are used to make it stronger.
This same set up with one of the melee characters casting harm and the others use greater whirlwind while the mage casts Chain Contingency/Time Stop + Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting x3 is gonna destroy it even harder.
Add in High Level summons and most enemies end-game are gonna be easy street. It's really the hordes that give you the trouble later in the game. Endurance runs against multiple tough enemies > One single strong enemy.
Boss fights are easy ass, because they're not usually in a horde, or just a group of 3-4, not enough to overwhelm and cause problem.
I remember, the hardest fight I experienced in BG2 is in Underdark against a group of high level Mind Flayers. There is an area in Mind Flayer base in Underdark where leading into the room you have to go through a super narrow corridor. Your party just got jammed stuck in the corridor.
As soon as you open the door at the end of the corridor, you got 3 umber hulks and half a dozen of Mind Flayers coming at you. Mind Flayer got an instant death Brain Eating attack which cannot be blocked by Death Ward.
I tried summoning a bunch of monsters to block off the Mind Flayers advance, but they are too smart to buy into my trap, a few Mind Flayers just ignored my summons squeeze through them and eat my party members brains. Plus the umber hulks just smashed through all my summons within seconds.
The trouble is Mind Flayers are hugely magic resistance, they have unblockable instant death melee attack, they can charm, confuse, stun at will. The only save way to kill them is by using summons as cannon fodder and bang them with range weapons. But when they have 3 umber hulks as bodyguards, that change everything!
It was a really really hard fight, one that I had to reload so many times.
Dragons die to magic easily and to melee maybe even more (poison weapon + 4 APR + improved haste = dead dragon in seconds)
Mind flayers cannot do anything against mordy sword
...
One waste in your strategy, though, is stacking your polymorph other spells in a sequencer. Sequencers, unfortunately, only require one save for all the spells in them. Stacking three save-or-dies does not cause three saving throws to have to be made. It's counterintuitive, I know, but that's the way the sequencers were implemented. So, you'd be better off to sequence, say, lower resistance, greater malison, polymorph other.
The base strategy here could also work with any good save-or-die, such as finger of death. Probably not disintegrate, though, because that one destroys loot.
On the subject of the basic complaint about dragons not being the ultimate "Death Star" powers in SoA and ToB that you might want them to be, well, there are some reasons for that. One that comes to mind is that they are not the ultimate villains in this story - Irenicus and Melissan are. Another is that by the time you face them, your characters are usually so high-leveled and so well-equipped that they are godlike powers in their own right, equals to dragonkind.
If you face them at lower levels, they do seem as powerful and scary as they should, I think. For example, try making a beeline for Firkraag straight out of Irenicus' dungeon and fight him, before you have the best equipment and a wide selection of high level spells. That would be a little more like going up against the Death Star, and be an epic battle, rather than just another minor side-villain fight to get through on the way to the ultimate bad guys.
Unless of course, you get a lucky roll for the one or two polymorph other spells you might have available, with very limited fourth level spell slots and possibly no fifth level spell slots. There will be no sequencers for characters of that level other than the fourth level minor version.
The fights with guardians in Watcher's keep are way harder than dragons EVEN with very well equipped party. The problem is not the dragon, the problem is a LONE dragon.
You can pick the hardest most fearsome monster, but overwhelmed by 6 well equipped party no matter how fearsome the monster is, they'll go down in no time. The dev team couldn've make the dragon fight more interesting if they add backups for the dragon.
That said Feeblemind will work more frequently both because of the -2 penalty it has for enemies saving against it and because dragons have a save vs polymorph that is 2 less (aka better) than their save vs spell. So a dragon might normally have say 3 for their save vs polymorph while having 5 for their save vs spell.
In other words, the game is probably at its hardest when you're below level 10, don't have six people in your group and do not have access to the best items. Even if you're only facing a small band of gangsters. Later on, once you start nearing godlike XP levels, there's essentially nothing (short of cheese) that could be thrown at you that you couldn't dismantle or obliterate quite easily. That's just the way the mechanism works in 2nd edition AD&D.