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the bar has been raised

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  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,199
    Probably technical limitations. There may be some issues with having a 30+GB game run nicely on an iPad. Could also be some BS on Apple's side that they don't want to deal with.

    Or maybe they just don't know what they'd do with all the money they'd earn from it.

    jackjackJuliusBorisov
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,806
    Jarrakul said:

    I suppose some folks might argue that DA:O was made in the same mold as the IE games, and... well, you can tell they tried, but that's about it. PoE is the first game I've seen since IWD2 that feels like an IE game.

    DA:O has it's roots in the Infinity Engine games, but it was truly the logical end result of those games, plus the 3D advancements and narrative that took place in the Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR series.

    FinneousPJJuliusBorisov
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
    JuliusBorisov
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,301
    edited April 2015
    I think its closer to 10 - 15.

    typo_tillyjackjackJuliusBorisov
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,199
    It's 14. I really need to stop it with the hyperbole, people just don't understand me.

    elminsterjackjackJuliusBorisov
  • ComplyOrDieComplyOrDie Member Posts: 41
    edited April 2015
    It certainly has been raised. Pillars is clearly the best RPG since BG series for me, I hope Beamdog can do a new game justice, I guess sales of the EEs have been pretty good overall so hopefully they have some money to throw at it :).

    My plea: take a leaf out of SCS' book if you are doing a hardmode, one thing Obsidian didn't manage too well in my opinion.

    FinneousPJ
  • VahnXIIIVahnXIII Member Posts: 33
    I tend to enjoy the games as they are. I love BG:EE, D:OS and PoE. To be honest, as long as we all keep buying those games, more will come our way. I wouldn't mind continuing to get solid isometric RPG's over the next many years.

    DelvarianproccoJuliusBorisov
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,559
    edited April 2015

    The thing is, I'll give Beamdog more credit than Obsidian at the moment because BD took a PC game from 1998 and got it working on ARM-based tablets with only a touch UI and no keyboard or mouse. Yes, BD's touch UI is extremely imperfect and it seems like they are ignoring its remaining shortcomings at this point, which is a damn shame... but still, I could play IWD on a 12-oz. 8-inch touchscreen tablet on a flight yesterday. That's amazing in its own right.

    Obsidian is creating a game from scratch, in 2015, with an isometric interface inspired directly by BG... and they are completely ignoring the devices best-suited for playing it. That's a crying shame. I'm very unlikely to buy PoE, because I don't feel like going into a specific room and sitting at a desk just to play a game with a click-based interface that plays out with sprites on 2d maps. If I'm going to that trouble and using that kind of hardware, I can play something like Skyrim.

    I'd also throw in the fact that PoE doesn't appear to be compatible with older OS's - which I find to be extremely ironic, after all the talk of it being inspired by older RPGs and intended to appeal to their fans - whereas the EE games run perfectly smoothly on my 8-year old laptop with Windows XP still installed.


  • AkihikoAkihiko Member Posts: 213
    Well, I've put in about 50-60 hours on PoE, and I can honestly say the bar has most certainly NOT been raised. I think way to many people are on a nostalgia high to notice the weak story, horrible pathfinding, bland party members, etc. I'm not sure PoE is better than any IE games, let alone is it setting a new standard.

    The combat was quite fun at first (it's how I was able to put so much time into it) but it just gets tedious and frustrating later in the game. Enemies throw charm spells like nobodies business, and your party members usually wind up stopping whatever they are doing and attacking the charmed character, because that makes sense. And the story ranges from bland to just plain stupid at points. I am just not feeling PoE, and I doubt I'll be able to convince myself to push through and beat the game.

    DanathionFaydark
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,301
    I've actually enjoyed the story. Its got a nice amount of mystery to it and I love the fact that its extremely descriptive and lets you make decisions during the main questline. Contrast that to BG1 where you get shoe horned into everything (try telling Duke Eltan that you don't want to talk to him about the Iron Throne and see how that goes) and have very limited dialogue options its definitely fresh air as far as I'm concerned.

    JarrakulJuliusBorisovjackjack
  • AkihikoAkihiko Member Posts: 213
    @elminster See, I felt nothing BUT shoehorned in. For example, the first party member you meet, the mage. I decided to not involve myself in his fight. So first, I said nothing. Then next option, I chose "I'm not getting involved in this" which I took to mean, well, I'm not getting involved. But apparently what that means is, I actually SAY IT OUT LOUD and then just stand there as the thugs turn around, and for no reason decide that I am involved, AND I'm against them. And that was just the tip of the iceberg for me.

  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Honestly, I'm with elminster on this one. I don't think freedom means everything goes the way the player wants it to. I think sometimes freedom means the world does its own thing, and if you don't like it, too bad.

    I still haven't finished PoE, but I continue to love it. I find the story intriguing, the pathfinding fine (by which I mean I haven't noticed it, which is the point of pathfinding), the party members extremely interesting, and the combat fun and complex as the game goes on. If you don't like it, I'm sorry to hear that. Different people have different tastes, but it's sad that you're not getting the same enjoyment out of the game that I am. But for myself, I'm in strong agreement with the OP thus far.

    JuliusBorisovelminster
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    @Akihiko So the people playing the new game are on a nostalgia high while you who prefer the 15 year old game aren't. That makes sense.

    elminsterjackjack
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,012
    Sensuki, an author of the IE mod an one of the most active beta-testers of PoE, created a list of things that he thinks are wrong in this game: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/quickfire-systemic-criticism-that-contributes-to-banality-of-gameplay.98429/

    We can either share his opinion or not (I personally don't) but it's clear that the IE games will always stay an example, a base that all new party RPG games are compared with. It will take literally years for people to see PoE in the same line as BG.

    Personally, I think @VahnXIII is right and we should look on games and feel them "as they are". I like PoE and enjoy playing it. But I love BG and it seems will always come back to it no matter whether I have played DA, PoE or something else.

    Goturalprocco
  • CluasCluas Member Posts: 355
    Well as long as we compare to the vanilla editions og BG1 and BG2. I am old enough to remember BG2 BEFORE it was patched... The comparison is a bit unfair...
    Then again, the bar has not been raised that much...

    JuliusBorisovGotural
  • CluasCluas Member Posts: 355


    I have a feeling that the bar will be set even higher before the year is over.

    I hope you are right. Looking very much forward to this : )

    JuliusBorisov
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054


    I'd also throw in the fact that PoE doesn't appear to be compatible with older OS's - which I find to be extremely ironic, after all the talk of it being inspired by older RPGs and intended to appeal to their fans - whereas the EE games run perfectly smoothly on my 8-year old laptop with Windows XP still installed.


    XP is no longer supported. To be honest I don't see why a new game should make any special effort to run on unsupported (and therefore unsafe) OS's. People who enjoyed PC games in the 90's don't usually still use those same systems.

    FinneousPJjoluvelminster
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,203
    edited April 2015
    I'm playing the game and was being hit hard by it for thinking in D&D terms. Now that I finally made the fact that this is not D&D clear in my head, it seems to be much easier. I have not played that far yet to really criticize his points. So far I the story seems intriguing to me at least.

    In combat the "send a near invulnerable tank forward" strategy seems to always work except when you have teleporting enemies that will always target your low armor party members. I agree that, in this point, the IE games offered more variety in combat strategies, even with vanilla AI.

    Post edited by mlnevese on
    JuliusBorisov
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,301
    edited April 2015
    So basically the AI in the game is smart enough to go for the least healthy character, as opposed to the AI in the IE games (which is dumb enough to go for the closest character and let your mage get away scot free). The strategy isn't all that different from BG1, where you could just send a tank or two to hold off enemies while you killed them with archery (or crippled them with magic like sleep). The only difference as far as I can see with pillars is that with sufficient numbers of enemies (not just shades) there is a possibility of them instead attacking your mage or archers.

    JarrakulJuliusBorisov
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    In BG1 (and much of BG2), the strategy is either a) send a neigh-invulnerable tank forward, or b) kite forever. People talk about how many tactical options you have, but none of that really matters when those two are sufficient. In PoE, kiting doesn't work because of engagement, and enemies do make a good-faith effort to attack your back-line (although engagement makes this more difficult), so tanking isn't infallible. I guess I just don't see why that's worse.

    elminsterJuliusBorisov
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    Some enemies will somewhat stupidly aim for your weakest members. For example I saw some phantoms despite being in melee with Eder (who was of course bottlenecking them in a doorway) they were still choosing to range attack Aloth which didn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

    JuliusBorisov
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808

    The thing is, I'll give Beamdog more credit than Obsidian at the moment because BD took a PC game from 1998 and got it working on ARM-based tablets with only a touch UI and no keyboard or mouse. Yes, BD's touch UI is extremely imperfect and it seems like they are ignoring its remaining shortcomings at this point, which is a damn shame... but still, I could play IWD on a 12-oz. 8-inch touchscreen tablet on a flight yesterday. That's amazing in its own right.

    Obsidian is creating a game from scratch, in 2015, with an isometric interface inspired directly by BG... and they are completely ignoring the devices best-suited for playing it. That's a crying shame. I'm very unlikely to buy PoE, because I don't feel like going into a specific room and sitting at a desk just to play a game with a click-based interface that plays out with sprites on 2d maps. If I'm going to that trouble and using that kind of hardware, I can play something like Skyrim.

    Also the inability to use mods, in a game inspired by BG, is pretty inexcusable.

    Seems crazy to me. I'll always take 'creating new' from 'refurbishing existing' when it comes to credit. Of course, antiquated software can be made to work on machines with a small fraction of the capabilities of the bigger machines. My guess is that, in 20 years, phones and tablets will be able to handle PoE, but not the latest, greatest of 2035.

    Apples and oranges. Honestly, the only standard is if something is worth getting or not, rather than if BeamDog did better/worse with its efforts than some other developer.

    FinneousPJJarrakul
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,385
    Any good reviews out there that approach the game from a completely neutral point of view?

    To me description in dialogue is just wrong... I'm willing to overlook that though if some review can convince me that the game is otherwise good.

  • proccoprocco Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 915
    I personally love PoE even if I haven't been able to get very far yet. I suppose it's fair to compare it to the IE games since that was the main inspiration for making it in the first place. I really like that it is different enough to be its own thing, but still pretty familiar. I'm not ready to call it better or worse than the IE games.
    The descriptions in dialogue are one of the things I actually like. It makes it more nuanced. The only time I think it's distracting is when the dialogue is voiced. I wind up either listening to the recording or reading the text, but not both.
    One thing I have to say is that the "fair" fights (the same number of enemies and party members) are usually REALLY hard for me. I am getting spanked over and over in Raedric's Hold. But that's probably more my fault than the game being too smart or cheaty (if that's a word).
    My point is I can't totally agree with the OP...yet.

    TJ_HookerJuliusBorisov
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    procco said:

    The descriptions in dialogue are one of the things I actually like. It makes it more nuanced. The only time I think it's distracting is when the dialogue is voiced. I wind up either listening to the recording or reading the text, but not both.

    I haven't played PoE yet, but I did really like the desciptions in the dialogue in Planescape Torment. That being said, I know what you mean about it sort of clashing with the dialogue when it's voiced. I was watching the trailer for Tides of Numenera, where they do they seem to do the same thing as in PoE, and I found it kind of annoying. I start reading the description only to be interrupted by the dialogue, which only starts a few lines down. I think PS:T solved this by breaking it into chunks. So at first you'd have the descripton, then you click a "continue" button at the bottom of the dialogue window, and then the dialogue (and any accompanying voiceover) starts. Makes it easier to follow.

    proccomlneveseJarrakul
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