Shadow thieves are very bad, okay. But vampires are horrid!
Think about it, if shadow thieves happen upon a poor, innocent family. They will at most take a few coppers and give the husband a beating if he resists. Now think what will happen if vampires descend upon that poor family? The wife has just given birth to a little baby last month who is crying in her arms. The 4 years old little girl is looking with big scared eyes under her mother's skirt. And vampires approach, guess what they will want? Too horrid to contemplate.
Can't we kill the shadow thieves after working for them and returning from Brynlaw? I thought we could. But in any case, choosing vampires over thieves does not make sense for a good pc IMHO. Okay, the thieves are not Robinhood wannabes, but vamps are not Cullens either.
1. You can kill both sides ether way.
2. I would kill the Cullens just out of principal. Sparkle this!
Shadow thieves are very bad, okay. But vampires are horrid!
Think about it, if shadow thieves happen upon a poor, innocent family. They will at most take a few coppers and give the husband a beating if he resists. Now think what will happen if vampires descend upon that poor family? The wife has just given birth to a little baby last month who is crying in her arms. The 4 years old little girl is looking with big scared eyes under her mother's skirt. And vampires approach, guess what they will want? Too horrid to contemplate.
Can't we kill the shadow thieves after working for them and returning from Brynlaw? I thought we could. But in any case, choosing vampires over thieves does not make sense for a good pc IMHO. Okay, the thieves are not Robinhood wannabes, but vamps are not Cullens either.
Actually I'm pretty sure the Shadow thieves do more than just mug people. As I pointed out before in your guild (if you take control of Mae'Var's) you are given people who can engage in assassinations and slave trading as typical practices.
Like I said, your morality bans it for your guild-not Shadow Thieve standards. And to point out your guild would be just one of a few operating in this city alone means that a lot of other guildmasters can say yes and do often enough that their underlings are competent in such tasks.
I'm not defending the vamps but at least the bulk of their current activites seem focused on the Shadow Thieves meaning the population at large would be at least somewhat safe until you get to clearing out Bodhi's group.
Still, I don't defend the vamps would not leave them be in any case. But some of the things Shadow Thieves were into seemed to be missed and acknowledging they aren't Robin Hoods is good but still doesn't quite touch what they do either.
D&D is chaotic stupid to see vampires as 'pure evil'. Clearly, they are no different from shepherds looking after their cattle. For me, that is much less evil than the corruption of the grain-fed man, who would murder vampires solely on account of their alien dietary practices.
I did bed a few vampires over the last few millennia though, so I might be biased.
The transformation to an undead critter may fiddle with your mind and your personality, and therefore also your alignment. Vampirism is a magical condition, and magic is very tuned-in to alignment in DnD, so it's entirely possible that vampires take a natural turn towards evil as they change--not because there's necessarily a huge difference between preying on people and preying on cows, but because that's how the magic works. There's a Helm of Opposite Alignment, why not a spell or a disease of opposite alignment?
There's a Helm of Opposite Alignment, why not a spell or a disease of opposite alignment?
Love the idea of a disease.
"Ashnok was one of our tribe's fiercest and most ruthless warriors. Until he got bitten by a crazed squirrel and contracted a strange disease. Since then, he changed, refuses to raid and helps old orcs to cross the road. Unless we find a cure, he is going to stay forever 'Ashnok the Florist'".
There's a Helm of Opposite Alignment, why not a spell or a disease of opposite alignment?
Love the idea of a disease.
"Ashnok was one of our tribe's fiercest and most ruthless warriors. Until he got bitten by a crazed squirrel and contracted a strange disease. Since then, he changed, refuses to raid and helps old orcs to cross the road. Unless we find a cure, he is going to stay forever 'Ashnok the Fluorist'".
Real men love and respect flowers!
Okay, *I* love flowers... but I also like picking up heavy things, so that might offset it.
I'd design a flower kit for BG2--I even have a couple of flower portraits from Paper Mario--but there's no animation in BG2 for a flower. The best I could do was make a mushroom kit. If I could make a spider, a flower, a ReDead or Dead Hand, a winged gnome, and a fairy, then I'd have the perfect party.
Vashrak the Needle Fearer comes to mind now. He was the fierce leader of the fiercest tribe of ogres the North ever beheld, the Talonite worshipping Anti-Vax Clan. That is, until his people were brought low by measles, polio, and whooping cough.
Paladins are one of the most powerful classes in terms of base stats and abilities. For that reason, I'm usually tough on them as a DM. They're not allowed to be two-faced or toe the line of morality; if they wanted to do that, they should have played ... literally any other class.
So I wouldn't allow siding with the Shadow Thieves' or the Vampires; working with either group should lead to fallen paladin status. There'd be a third way to talk to Saemon directly or that mod that let you work with the city watch.
The way the game plays out, of course, is that the Aran Linvail Shadow Thieves' are pretty harmless (Renal Bloodscalp and Mae'Var are not). You talk to someone who gets murdered, talk to two more people who try to murder you, talk to another person who tries to murder you, and finally go kill some vampires.
For the Vampires, you need to go murder Mook (a good-aligned character), break and enter and murder someone in their home (Vulova) or break someone out of captivity (no problems there), and then go kill a bunch of thieves (no problems there).
The way the game plays out, of course, is that the Aran Linvail Shadow Thieves' are pretty harmless (Renal Bloodscalp and Mae'Var are not). You talk to someone who gets murdered, talk to two more people who try to murder you, talk to another person who tries to murder you, and finally go kill some vampires.
For the Vampires, you need to go murder Mook (a good-aligned character), break and enter and murder someone in their home (Vulova) or break someone out of captivity (no problems there), and then go kill a bunch of thieves (no problems there).
Decent summary, I'd just like to point out you don't have to kill Mook. I usually don't and do a charm + pickpocket instead.
Comments
2. I would kill the Cullens just out of principal. Sparkle this!
Like I said, your morality bans it for your guild-not Shadow Thieve standards. And to point out your guild would be just one of a few operating in this city alone means that a lot of other guildmasters can say yes and do often enough that their underlings are competent in such tasks.
I'm not defending the vamps but at least the bulk of their current activites seem focused on the Shadow Thieves meaning the population at large would be at least somewhat safe until you get to clearing out Bodhi's group.
Still, I don't defend the vamps would not leave them be in any case. But some of the things Shadow Thieves were into seemed to be missed and acknowledging they aren't Robin Hoods is good but still doesn't quite touch what they do either.
"Ashnok was one of our tribe's fiercest and most ruthless warriors. Until he got bitten by a crazed squirrel and contracted a strange disease. Since then, he changed, refuses to raid and helps old orcs to cross the road. Unless we find a cure, he is going to stay forever 'Ashnok the Florist'".
Okay, *I* love flowers... but I also like picking up heavy things, so that might offset it.
Damn anti-fluoride activists!
So I wouldn't allow siding with the Shadow Thieves' or the Vampires; working with either group should lead to fallen paladin status. There'd be a third way to talk to Saemon directly or that mod that let you work with the city watch.
The way the game plays out, of course, is that the Aran Linvail Shadow Thieves' are pretty harmless (Renal Bloodscalp and Mae'Var are not). You talk to someone who gets murdered, talk to two more people who try to murder you, talk to another person who tries to murder you, and finally go kill some vampires.
For the Vampires, you need to go murder Mook (a good-aligned character), break and enter and murder someone in their home (Vulova) or break someone out of captivity (no problems there), and then go kill a bunch of thieves (no problems there).
More seriously, that does seem like a good (!) option for your Paladin.