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Swashbuckler or Swashbuckler(level 10) -> Fighter? Which would you pick if you had to choose?

I've been wanting to play around with a swashbuckler lately but I've been wondering if I should leave him as is or dual him to a fighter. Overall which of these two would be better in the long run?

Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,116
    I would leave a swashbuckler as she is.

    Later you'll get awesome HLAs and thus spike traps and ability to use any item, including A LOT of useful stuff.

    Plus your AC bonuses will reach extremely low figures.

    As I see it, in the case of Fighter/Thieves, a multiclass is better than a dualclass.

    SmilingSwordThacoBell
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,732
    edited June 2015
    I don't really see much of a point (at least from a mechanical standpoint) in Swashbucker 10 - > fighter unless you really don't want to take another thief in BG2. Compared to a multi-class fighter/thief anyways. But if you want to be a swashbuckler more for roleplaying reasons then a swashbuckler-> fighter would be quite a bit more effective in melee combat than a pure swashbuckler.

    Skatan
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,085
    elminster said:

    unless you really don't want to take another thief in BG2

    I really don't! :P I really don't like thieves, Swaffy is basically the only way I can be convinced to take them along because it comes at so cheap a cost. It's really no big deal to get Swash to 10, it's not even a whole fighter level you're missing in the end and you get max lock/traps/illusions (assuming 19 DEX, near max otherwise). And also some combat bonuses to sweeten the deal! Sold!

    But that's just me and my silly prejudice. Many people love thieves and have no qualms about Spike Trap proliferation and the likes. For them a F/T may be the better choice (or something else altogether like idk Kensai->Thief or whatever).

    Skatan
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    I like pure Swashbuckler as a choice perhaps because of the reasons listed above. You get your thief points thick and fast so will have high set traps, detect illusion and pick pocket before other thief builds will and can choose dwarf for shorty saves and 18 base strength. In bg1 it's a nice build and in bg2 it really kicks into gear with APR weapons (plenty of party member choices that don't need them) until finally you get UAI and can use the nice scarlet ninja-to along with whirlwind attack.

    I'd never condone a swash->fighter. If you only care about traps and locks then stop caring and just brute force them and instead have a much more competent party member.

    Fighter/thief I also don't like simply because a fighter/mage/thief is better. I mean seriously, why F/T when you can throw spells like stoneskin and mislead into the mix?

    Skatan
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,085
    Wowo said:

    until finally you get UAI and can use the nice scarlet ninja-to along with whirlwind attack.

    But isn't that a little redundant. I mean don't get me wrong I *love* APR in all its forms, but when you're already at 10 APR from WW why do you need SNT? And if you plan on using less WW and more IH with base APR, then you're still stuck with a +3 enchanted MH weapon (SNT) which isn't that great against boss enemies particularly in ToB, so you'll want to pick WW even more - which makes me wonder why you aren't a fighter in the first place.
    Wowo said:

    I'd never condone a swash->fighter. If you only care about traps and locks then stop caring and just brute force them and instead have a much more competent party member.

    Well, that is definitely true to an extent. It is basically why I don't like thieves, they do too little. However, while you absolutely can just smash locks left and right and brute-force traps, for me personally the sheer convenience of not having to do that seems absolutely worth the very small cost of dualing a Swaffy; as I said, you're less than 1 full Fighter level behind a single class Fighter so it's almost free. And you do get +2 THAC0/Damage along with it as well as - and don't overlook this - 100 Detect Illusions. That is quite the bargain. It's different in BG1 of course, I'm talking BG2 here.
    Wowo said:

    Fighter/thief I also don't like simply because a fighter/mage/thief is better. I mean seriously, why F/T when you can throw spells like stoneskin and mislead into the mix?

    I am inclined to agree. Thief levels get redundant quickly because you cap thieving skill points, as do Fighter levels; Mage continues to improve with more/higher spells, making this the best of all world I suppose. The XP penalty is not that significant given the non-linear growth, the only thing that is annoying is the APR penalty (no Grandmastery) but that can be remedied or at least mitigated.

    Skatan
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 5,816
    I pick the joker option: multiclass swashie.

    Skatan
  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,482
    edited June 2015
    Everything needed has already been said above, especially well explained by @Lord_Tansheron, but I'm gonna give my 2 cents anyway.

    I'm not a huge fan of SC thieves. As said, you'll run into abundant skill points sooner or later, even with an assassin, and especially so with a swashie. I like the RP behind swashies, but would prefer if they recieved some kind of bonus for fighting with longsword+buckler, like an extra APR and AC, since it was the way they fought IRL. With that said, I usually prefer rogue classes for charnames to be MC or DC. Nowadays, since I've played alot, I'm open for keepering whatever I feel like, so you could choose to MC a swashie/fighter. The fighter would be there mostly for APR, since it's the only real drawback of a swashie. I mean, it takes XX+ hours before you reach HLA's (depending on playstyle etc), and you prolly want to have fun up until that time, so don't just plan for that.

    With that said, I wouldn't bother with dualing from swashie to fighter. I would either choose the more powergamey option of creating a MC one or keep her as a swashie all the way through for RP reasons.



    (A swashie mage on the other hand.. I know it's not what you asked about, but it's a very funny combo).

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,085
    edited June 2015
    Since it's come up, I've actually tried a lot of unconventional (read: not allowed under default rules) class combinations. Swashbuckler multiclass, and also the Fighter -> Swashbuckler dual. The latter in particular is one of my most favorite class combinations of all times, perhaps even the most favorite. It puts out a ludicrous amount of damage, while also having things like UAI and Fighter hit dice to shrug off most what is thrown at you. If you don't mind "cheating" on class combos and want some light-hearted fun slaughtering everything that moves in a blur of steely death, give it a try! If anything it will effectively demonstrate why they chose not to give Swashbucklers extra APR...

  • TerminusEstTerminusEst Member Posts: 3

    Since it's come up, I've actually tried a lot of unconventional (read: not allowed under default rules) class combinations. Swashbuckler multiclass, and also the Fighter -> Swashbuckler dual. The latter in particular is one of my most favorite class combinations of all times, perhaps even the most favorite. It puts out a ludicrous amount of damage, while also having things like UAI and Fighter hit dice to shrug off most what is thrown at you. If you don't mind "cheating" on class combos and want some light-hearted fun slaughtering everything that moves in a blur of steely death, give it a try! If anything it will effectively demonstrate why they chose not to give Swashbucklers extra APR...

    Wait a minute you can actually dualclass to kits now??

    Blackraven
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356

    Wait a minute you can actually dualclass to kits now??

    Not legally, no ... but you can grant a kit to the second class of a dual (provided that the first class is unkitted) using the EEkeeper editor. (@Lord_Tansheron is fond of EEkeeper.)

  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,094

    Wait a minute you can actually dualclass to kits now??

    Only if you use a savegame editor. The easiest way is to assign the kit you want to dual into to your character in EEKeeper before actually dual-classing.

    JuliusBorisov
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    For illegal combinations I'd go Swashbuckler/Mage for sure.

    Single class demihuman Swash is pretty strong I think and is competitive with the swaffy. Sure, it loses APR from time to time but it makes a nice tank and it does take a while to max out DT/OL/ST/DI/PP and I'd say the Swash set of HLAs are stronger than the fighter set.

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