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Newbie question about Dual-Classing

Greetings, new to the Baldur's Gate series.

I think I understand how dual-classing functions, after reading posts.

You can only be human, and your new class abilities don't kick in until it surpasses your old class in level. Then you simply keep progressing in your new class retaining your benefits from the old class. If that's incorrect please correct me.

Now, in the threads I see discussions about certain dual-classes, and when to dual. I'll see something like this:

"It's better to dual at 9 than at 13 because..."

It's not clear in my newbie brain what "at 9" precisely means.

Does it mean:

When your character is at level 8 and ready to level up to 9, dual into your new class.

Or...

When your character is at level 9 and is ready to level up to 10, dual into your new class.

Thanks!

Comments

  • blackchimesblackchimes Member Posts: 323
    Well, level up to 13 and right after that dual class. No idea why you would skip that extra half attack...
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @blackchimes Downtime obviously.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455

    .

    You can only be human, and your new class abilities don't kick in until it surpasses your old class in level. Then you simply keep progressing in your new class retaining your benefits from the old class. If that's incorrect please correct me.

    When you start progressing in your new class, you lose your old skills and can only the new ones. Once your new class surpasses the level of the old class, you regain abilities.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    @blackchimes : A good reason would be downtime. If you are soloing and know the game very well, you may dual at 13 and get your levels nearly immediately after, but if you are playing a full party, it is not that easy since you will share Exp. If you dual into a mage at 13, you need 1,500,000 exp, which means 9,000,000 for a full party (a little less with quest exp). That's a lot. Dualing at 9 only requires 250,000 exp, which is 1,500,000 as a full party.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I've done dual-classes at multiple levels, and downtime should be the primary determinant of when you dual. Dualing at higher levels adds small benefits at the cost of exponentially increasing costs. And by the time you recover your original class levels, you likely won't even notice those small benefits.

    Plus, downtime is boring.
  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    Much of this depends on what you want to dual into what. For fighters, there are well established points in which you may want to dual, but for other classes the lines are blurrier.

    Dualing at 9 just means that you dual when you are level 9. You may want to do it fairly early since all the exp you gain after the point you should dual, is basically thrown away if you don't do it right away. This level 9 point is for fighters btw.

    You CAN do the dual class at any time, if your stats are good enough for any of the other classes. The button in your character sheet over the level up button should be highlighted if you can dual-class at all. Fe. if you are a fighter, and want to dual into a mage, your Intelligence needs to be high enough for the dual to be possible. I think 16 Int is the minimum.

    Btw, the dualing classes are:
    Fighter, Thief, Mage and Cleric.
    You can mix and match them whichever way ticks your fancy. If you are unsure of what to do, ask advice from this forum. We're pretty friendly, and a lot of people here have tons of experience in this game.

    Dualing classes which special rules apply to:
    Ranger and Druid. Rangers can only dual as clerics, and druids can only dual as fighters. And vice versa.

  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,989
    If you plan to dual into a cleric or a druid, choose wisely weapon proficiencies.
    Clerics and druids (single, multi or dual class) won't ever be able to use many weapons.

    I.e. if you're planning a fighhter / cleric, don't specialize the fighter in long sword, two handed sword etc. etc.
  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    Oh, and some duals have the odd Charisma-requirement, such as the Shadowdancer->Fighter. For this particular dual you need atleast 15 cha. Can't think of any others but there ought to be...
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    @yannir to dual class you need 15 in the prime requisites of your current class and 17 in the primes for your new class.

    So that's 15 strength if you're a fighter wanting to dual or 17 strength if you are another class and wanting to become a fighter.

    Fighter: strength
    Cleric: wisdom
    Druid: wisdom and charisma
    Mage: intelligence
    Thief: dexterity
    Shadowdancer: strength, dexterity and charisma
  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,989
    edited July 2015
    @Lord_Tansheron
    Ranger 2 => Cleric makes sense to me.
    We have a unkitted cleric (with the cleric level progression) with ** in specializations and all the druidic spells available.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Pibaro said:

    @Lord_Tansheron
    Ranger 2 => Cleric makes sense to me.
    We have a unkitted cleric (with the cleric level progression) with ** in specializations and all the druidic spells available.

    BG1 is a different animal altogether, due to the XP values involved. Though it could be argued there too that R/C is still better, due to better combat performance and the relatively small gap in levels between a dualed and multi cleric.

    In BG2 there's HLAs to consider which throw everything off. Also note that to retain druid spell progression on a dualed R->C you need to edit the .ini file, otherwise it will stop druid spells at where the Ranger was when it dualed.
  • GammaPhaseGammaPhase Member Posts: 27
    Wow, you guys are on task. I want to thank everyone, and in particular:

    @FinneousPJ For correcting my misunderstanding.
    @Arunsun For information about XP I didn't know.
    @Yannir For the overview, much appreciated.
    @Lord_Tansheron For the extra information.

    You answered questions I didn't even know I had, I appreciate it!

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @Lord_Tansheron Ranger/Mage is not possible.
  • AltairAltair Member Posts: 128
    The two BG1+BG2 playthroughs I enjoyed the most were as a Kensai-Thief (Dual-Class) and as a Fighter-Thief (Multiclass). Both are amazingly powerful at high level, with the FT having a slight edge because of the Fighter High-Level Abilities (which the KT does not get).
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212

    @Lord_Tansheron Ranger/Mage is not possible.

    You sure? I'm never certain about these things because of my modding but I always thought you could dual Ranger into Mage. Guess I was wrong.

  • woowoovoodoowoowoovoodoo Member Posts: 150
    Just tried to create Ranger -> Mage with 17/17/17/18/17/3 (BG2:EE, only SCS installed), only Cleric is available as a second class.
  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,989

    Pibaro said:

    @Lord_Tansheron
    Ranger 2 => Cleric makes sense to me.
    We have a unkitted cleric (with the cleric level progression) with ** in specializations and all the druidic spells available.

    BG1 is a different animal altogether, due to the XP values involved. Though it could be argued there too that R/C is still better, due to better combat performance and the relatively small gap in levels between a dualed and multi cleric.

    In BG2 there's HLAs to consider which throw everything off. Also note that to retain druid spell progression on a dualed R->C you need to edit the .ini file, otherwise it will stop druid spells at where the Ranger was when it dualed.
    I'm not saying that is better than a multi R/C, but if you want a cleric with druidic spell, and decent weapon skills, it could be a good idea.

    Anyway, I forgot they change the r/c druidic spell thing. So, unless you modify the .ini, there's no reason at all to dual the ranger to cleric :)
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    Jesus Christ that was a long novel @Lord_Tansheron
    I am on mobile and I could simply not see the end of your comment... Everytime I finished reading a paragraph and scrolled down there was another 3 of them.
    You are totally welcome @GammaPhase
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Pibaro said:

    I'm not saying that is better than a multi R/C, but if you want a cleric with druidic spell, and decent weapon skills, it could be a good idea.

    Of course you're free to run with anything you like, but as you yourself admitted, R/C is pretty much the same just better :)

    Just tried to create Ranger -> Mage with 17/17/17/18/17/3 (BG2:EE, only SCS installed), only Cleric is available as a second class.

    Well that's good to know. I seem to recall something about R->M somewhere but I guess not. Apologies!
  • woowoovoodoowoowoovoodoo Member Posts: 150
    I wanted to try Archer -> Mage a few months ago and was disappointed that it's not possible in unmodded game, it could be an interesting option.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    An Archer kit for fighters is available in the Tactics mod. That lets you dual class an Archer to most anything, or play as an Archer of any race. All you lose is the stealth ability and a few tiny priest spells. I'm about to start a new run with two Archer/Mages.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Did it once, was reasonably fun. Melfies or Energy Blades + Called Shot can go off quite nicely. Then again, Archers are already fairly good. Their kit bonuses do slow down considerably at some point though, so I suppose you could use mage at that point to squeeze out some extra power.

    Dualing to mage is definitely the most prevalent choice in BG2, to no one's surprise. You could probably squeeze in a mage anywhere and improve it :P
  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 403

    @Lord_Tansheron Ranger/Mage is not possible.

    Just tried to create Ranger -> Mage with 17/17/17/18/17/3 (BG2:EE, only SCS installed), only Cleric is available as a second class.

    Well that's good to know. I seem to recall something about R->M somewhere but I guess not. Apologies!
    Supported by 2ed rules; unfortunately, not by the game engine :(
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