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Cleric/Ranger vs. Fighter/Druid

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  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Tommy123 said:

    There is an interesting "bug". A dual-classed Ranger->Cleric gets additional APR on cleric level 7 and 13 like a fighter-type class.

    Interesting bug but seems difficult to leverage. Does it work with the kits? Would a ranger kit make it worthwhile?
  • Tommy123Tommy123 Member Posts: 27
    Wowo said:

    Interesting bug but seems difficult to leverage. Does it work with the kits? Would a ranger kit make it worthwhile?

    To benefit from the "bug" you need to switch early. This way you get a full cleric with some fighting capabilities almost right from the start.

    It works with Kits, but none is really worthwhile. All of them get armor/weapon restrictions, Archer gets Bonus for slings, Stalker/Beastmaster get Stealth bonus. Clubs/quarterstaffs for Beastmaster or Stalker (to use backstab) are bad weapon choices in IWD.

    A plain ranger is far better, but i would only choose it for the druid spells (using the ini-tweak). For an early switch to cleric i would prefer Berserker(3)->Cleric ... gets the same number of attacks with grand mastery (together with +2 THC0 / +3 damage) far earlier.

  • Tad_Has_A_Cold_OliveTad_Has_A_Cold_Olive Member Posts: 183
    For a Fighter/Druid dual-class, is it better to dual at level 3 or at level 7?
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @Tad_Has_A_Cold_Olive 7 due to APR increase
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064

    For a Fighter/Druid dual-class, is it better to dual at level 3 or at level 7?

    Or 9 for max HP, increased THAC0 and progression of kit abilities.
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    edited August 2015
    dual class fighters at lvl9, HPs are nice but the real reason is because at lvl9 they get 5* in a weapon and thats an extra attack.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Roller12 said:

    dual class fighters at lvl9, HPs are nice but the real reason is because at lvl9 they get 5* in a weapon and thats an extra attack.

    That's not the reason at all. A 7 dual gets a pip at druid (or cleric 8) which provides grandmastery as well (and much sooner than a 9 dual considering that you dual as soon as you get GM in the other case).
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    Wowo said:

    Roller12 said:

    dual class fighters at lvl9, HPs are nice but the real reason is because at lvl9 they get 5* in a weapon and thats an extra attack.

    That's not the reason at all. A 7 dual gets a pip at druid (or cleric 8) which provides grandmastery as well (and much sooner than a 9 dual considering that you dual as soon as you get GM in the other case).
    Yes it is. And if anything or anyone can invest in fighter only proficiencies after the fighter class becomes locked then its a bug and will be fixed and is an exploit, in either case it has no place here. You can dual a fighter at lvl2 then delay levelling until lvl30 and get multiple grandmasteries too.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Roller12 said:

    Wowo said:

    Roller12 said:

    dual class fighters at lvl9, HPs are nice but the real reason is because at lvl9 they get 5* in a weapon and thats an extra attack.

    That's not the reason at all. A 7 dual gets a pip at druid (or cleric 8) which provides grandmastery as well (and much sooner than a 9 dual considering that you dual as soon as you get GM in the other case).
    Yes it is. And if anything or anyone can invest in fighter only proficiencies after the fighter class becomes locked then its a bug and will be fixed and is an exploit, in either case it has no place here. You can dual a fighter at lvl2 then delay levelling until lvl30 and get multiple grandmasteries too.
    Pretty sure that you aren't the leading authority on what does and doesn't have a place here. If it's an exploit then hopefully it will be fixed in the future but until then it is possible to invest as I described making 3 or 6 the ideal levels to dual into a divine class if GM is the only consideration.
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    edited August 2015
    Wowo said:


    Pretty sure that you aren't the leading authority on what does and doesn't have a place here. If it's an exploit

    Im not, the rules are, and clearly you dont know them if getting multiple grandmasteries as a mage strikes you as plausible at any moment. And no, using bugs, pretty sure the ideal level to dual is lvl2, and get enough xp for proficients. It seems the game treats these levels as fighter levels too so you also will get all the extra attacks. (i think it was reported already) Enjoy :smile:

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Roller12 said:

    Wowo said:


    Pretty sure that you aren't the leading authority on what does and doesn't have a place here. If it's an exploit

    Im not, the rules are, and clearly you dont know them if getting multiple grandmasteries as a mage strikes you as plausible at any moment. And no, using bugs, pretty sure the ideal level to dual is lvl2, and get enough xp for proficients. It seems the game treats these levels as fighter levels too so you also will get all the extra attacks. (i think it was reported already) Enjoy :smile:

    I'm fairly informed about the rules I think you'll find but I'm sure everyone enjoys reading how personal you like to be in your responses.

    I assume that you're referring to a specific bug that impacts ranger/cleric dual and is almost entirely useless. Not sure about its relevance here.

    I've yet to see any evidence that specialising after dual classing is against the rules. That said I've long held the opinion that Grandmastery itself needs to be overhauled to be more balanced.
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    Wowo said:


    I've yet to see any evidence that specialising after dual classing is against the rules.

    I think the fact that the game doesnt allow it is a fairly good sign that it isnt allowed.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
    Roller12
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    @subtledoctor Oh my, you are right, i guess i got too used to playing with BG2fixpack. i think there might be interest in such a mod since the game force-throws points at us and at higher levels it may become a problem so i least me, i would definitely use that.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Roller12 said:

    Wowo said:


    I've yet to see any evidence that specialising after dual classing is against the rules.

    I think the fact that the game doesnt allow it is a fairly good sign that it isnt allowed.

    The game in fact does allow it, so I guess you have proven yourself wrong.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064

    Roller12 said:

    Wowo said:


    I've yet to see any evidence that specialising after dual classing is against the rules.

    I think the fact that the game doesnt allow it is a fairly good sign that it isnt allowed.

    The game in fact does allow it, so I guess you have proven yourself wrong.
    My point.

    Against the rules in AD&D does not make it against the rules in an IE game. For starters the IE games use a loose translation of the rules. Secondly, all D&D rules are open to the interpretation of the GM. Finally, as we've noted, the best indication of whether something is allowed in an IE games is whether or not you can actually do it; at least until there is official word to the contrary.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    @subtledoctor nice points. I'm a bit fuzzy on what the exact rules are for grandmastery but don't they also suggest that it's only possible to go above specialisation in one weapon?

    As an ipad player mods are a bit tricky for me so hopefully this is officially fixed in the future.
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  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    @subtledoctor so according to the rules it's possible to be a grandmaster in multiple weapons?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064

    Oh yeah, I wasn't even considering that. No, I think that's illegal too. :P

    I don't think that one is fixable with a mod, though...

    EDIT - actually I suppose it could be fixable, my mod already does that for Kensai. They choose a weapon to focus on at 1st level, and they can reach GM with that weapon *only*. It would be a big PITA to apply that to all warriors, though...

    My point is that there are plenty of deviations from the rules and while I'd support a series of "balance patches" that sort to create a more interesting, accurate and balanced official game I don't think it's appropriate to lynch anyone who chooses to take the game more or less as it is (as @Roller12 seemed to want to do).
    FinneousPJ
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    Roller12 said:

    And if anything or anyone can invest in fighter only proficiencies after the fighter class becomes locked then its a bug and will be fixed and is an exploit

    This was blocked in the original BG1 and IWD but it has been changed in the EE's (and its an intended change).
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  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    To the best of my knowledge it doesn't stop you.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    elminster said:

    Roller12 said:

    And if anything or anyone can invest in fighter only proficiencies after the fighter class becomes locked then its a bug and will be fixed and is an exploit

    This was blocked in the original BG1 and IWD but it has been changed in the EE's (and its an intended change).
    Love it.

    Though I'd still support balance patches.
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  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064

    make the game the way it ought to be. :)

    Mhmm
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2015
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    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
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    FinneousPJJuliusBorisov
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