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[MOD] REPROCK (REdone PROficiency, Class and Kits) WIP

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  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Illustair
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Here is my chart for what is going to happen to weapons. Armors next.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,307
    dividing weapons in three groups like this feels unnatural. what does halberd have to do with flail? what kind of training makes you more skilled in wielding halberds and flails at the same time? doesn't connect to the reality of the game world.

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    edited August 2015
    @bob_veng What do you suggest if you are grouping into 3 categories? Stick with Blunt, Pierce and Slash?

    Blunt:
    Club
    Quarterstaff
    Warhammer
    Mace
    Morningstar
    Flail

    Pierce:
    Dagger
    Shortsword
    Ninjato
    Spear

    Slash:
    Wakisashi
    Axe
    Longsword
    Katana
    Scimitar
    Halberd
    Bastardsword
    Two-Handed Sword

    Illustairbob_veng
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Here is the revised Weapons list. The tangible difference will be with weapon type. Piercing, Slashing and Blunt. Intangibly will be light, medium and heavy.

    So, while all weapons can backstab, piercing weapons do it naturally, Slash will get a -1 multiplier and blunt -2. In addition, light weapons get a 0/-1 DW penalty, medium weapons, 0/-2 and heavy, -1/-3.

    Alternatively, Rangers excel with Piercing and Slashing Weapons while paladins excel with slashing and blunt. This will allow better customization in the long run.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    wolpak
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    edited August 2015
    I don't like proficiencies that have no value to anyone. Right now, Aptitude (cast level and speed), Devotion (priest spells), Acumen (Wizard Spells) have absolutely no value for some classes and Lethality (backstab) has limited value.

    Devotion will give priest spells in addition to "Divine Favor" which will restore 1 HP when damage is taken.
    1: 3% chance
    2: 6%
    3: 9%
    4: 12%
    5:15%
    6: 18%
    7: 21%

    Acumen will give wizard spells in addition to "Imbue Weapon" which will allow you to inflict additional magical damage with each attack.
    1: +1 Magical Damage 5% chance
    2: +1 Magical Damage 10%
    3: +1 Magical Damage 15%
    4: +2 Magical Damage 15%
    5: +2 Magical Damage 20%
    6: +2 Magical Damage 25%
    7: +3 Magical Damage 25%

    Lethality will be merged under Aptitude which will now also give +1BS per level.

    A new ability called Disable will replace Precision. It will allow the character to have a %chance to inflict a status ailment on melee and ranged attack. Preliminary, looking at this:
    1: 3% -2 movement for 2 rounds
    2: 3% -2 AC for 2 rounds
    3: 3% -2 TH for 2 rounds
    4: 3% -2 Dam for 2 rounds
    5: 3% Sleep for 2 rounds
    6: 3% -2 Saves for 2 rounds
    7: 3% Stun for 2 rounds

    Any suggestions or ideas of whether to increase or decrease percentages and what-not will definitely be welcome.

    Post edited by wolpak on
    Grammarsalad
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Most people aren't a fan of 2e armor where everything is abstracted as armor class. There are plenty of mods out there who add in resistance functionality at the expense of thief skills, or mage casting and usually dex bonuses. While they are good, the problem is that they only affect the armor. The game mechanics have to really be altered to manage this properly. I have always thought it was strange that level bonuses for classes give them the ability to hit enemies at a higher rate, but not avoid damage at a higher rate. Clearly, if you are an adventurer and just experience in the field allows you to be more accurate, wouldn't it make more sense that you also know where not to be a little bit better as well.

    How can armor represent real life as much as the engine will allow it to? If we have THAC0 to represent the ability to hit, and damage as the ability to hurt, then AC should represent the ability to avoid and DR the ability to withstand. The game doesn't have the capability to shrug off damage as the rules indicate, so, we have to work around that.

    AC is no longer Armor Class. It is Avoidance Class and represents the 3 basic methods of avoiding damage, dodge, block or parry (though they obviously aren't checked differently). If your ability to hit increases with level, your ability to avoid damage increases as well. The THAC0 table has been modified to basically be a High, Medium and Low (which is very similar to 3e) and the Avoidance Table will function the same as well.

    THAC0 (stops at level 21):
    High: -1 THAC0 every level (-1, -1, -1) Ends at 0
    Medium: -2 THAC0 every 3 levels (-1, -1, 0) Ends at 5
    Low: -1 Thaco every other level (-1, 0, -1) Ends at 10

    Parry (stops at level 22):
    High: -1 AC every 3 levels, Ends at -8
    Medium: -1 AC every 4 levels, Ends at -6
    Low: -1 AC every 5 levels, Ends at -4

    Fighter:
    THAC0: High
    AC: Medium

    Paladin:
    THAC0: High
    AC: Low

    Ranger:
    THAC0: High
    AC: High

    Barbarian:
    THAC0: High
    AC: High

    Cleric:
    THAC0: Medium
    AC: Low

    Druid:
    THAC0: Medium
    AC: Medium

    Thief:
    THAC0: Medium
    AC: High

    Bard:
    THAC0: Medium
    AC: Medium

    Monk:
    THAC0: Medium
    AC: High

    Mage:
    THAC0: Low
    AC: Medium

    Sorcerer:
    THAC0: Low
    AC: Medium

    This would make it seem somewhat overpowered given armor gives low AC as well. Au contraire, armor will no longer give AC bonuses, and, in fact, give AC penalties. Light armor will give slim AC penalties, medium, moderate penalties, and Heavy, well, you get it. Magical Armor is easier to move around in and will reduce those penalties. So, why wear armor at all? Just like the other mods, they will give damage resistance. Who can wear the heaviest armors appropriately? Paladins and Fighters. Paladins already get a low AC bonus, so, DR is the way to go. Fighters, at medium, can choose to focus on AC bonus and wear light armor, or DR and go heavy armor.

    Shields, being the other part of Avoiding Damage, will give better benefits as well. Similar to item revisions, they will give greater AC, but at the expense of the ability to hit the target. The best AC character may be a naked on with points put in the right proficiencies wearing a Tower Shield. In concept, you would think that guy is the hardest to hit, but when he does get hit, it hurts. I'll attach a better representation of the progressions in a chart.

    Any suggestions, or alterations (maybe Druids should get low THAC0, or Rangers Medium AC, are welcome.

    IllustairDarkersun
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Was having a problem uploading a file with an &.

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Each class/kit will have 2 primary proficiencies that they excel at better than others. Each class will have 2, and their kits will retain one of the class and replace the other. These primary proficiencies will allow them to excel faster than another class, even if both can GM in it.

    Right now the proficiency progression looks like this:
    1: 1st level
    2: 3rd level
    3: 6th level
    4: 9th level
    5: 12th level
    6: 15th level
    7: 18th level

    Primary proficiency progression will look like this:
    1: 1st level
    2: 1st level
    3: 3rd level
    4: 6th level
    5: 9th level
    6: 12th level
    7: 15th level

    Meaning they will always be one set of levels ahead. Here is my preliminary plan for the classes. Too many for the kits, but usually go inline with the premise of what the kit does:

    Fighter:
    Fortitude: +HP and Regen
    Power: + Damage

    Thief:
    Avoidance: +AC
    Coordination: +OH

    Cleric:
    Tenacity: +MR
    Devotion: +Priest Spells

    Mage/Sorc:
    Aptitude: +CL & +CS
    Acumen: +Wizard Spells

    Paladin:
    Obstinacy: +Saves B/W and Immunities to Charm and Confusion
    Magnetism: -Saves to monsters

    Ranger:
    Ranged: +TH and Dam ranged
    Coordination: +OH

    Druid:
    Prevention: +Cold and Acid resist
    Devotion: +Druid Spells

    Bard:
    Insight: +XP
    Magnetism: -Saves to monsters

    Monk:
    Mobility: + Movement and +AC Missiles
    Precision: +CS

    Barbarian:
    Fortitude: +HP and Regen
    Enrage: +bonus when injured

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    edited August 2015
    I updated the 1st and 3rd posts to reflect more of what I am doing/planning, if anyone is interested. Lots of readjustments, but I think I am pretty set now (and I have scripted about half of the abilities). Major adjustments to stats as well as classes and kits.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,577
    Random concern.

    It looks like a lot of proficiencies add attack speed. I'm at work now(without my laptop) now, so I can't check, but I understand that all magic weapons either have a very low attack speed or a zero attack speed (ie the lowest). I remember a conversation about this in the item revisions mod (which reverts weapon speed to a default). If so, then, assuming characters will have magic weapons, they won't get that speed bonus... Or maybe I'm misinterpreting "AS" which I take to mean "attack speed".

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    The only profs that add attack speed are weapon proficiencies, blunt, piercing and slashing. By nature they are all mutually exclusive.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,577
    wolpak said:

    The only profs that add attack speed are weapon proficiencies, blunt, piercing and slashing. By nature they are all mutually exclusive.

    Well yes, but I understand that you will not receive a bonus to attack speed when wielding a magic weapon because their attack speed is already max or close to max (in which case, you will not receive bonuses at higher proficiency levels).

    This may be a non issue. To check, compare attack speed of s regular sword vs a magic sword. I think that the magic versions are already at max, or near max

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    @Grammarsalad Encountered a little hiccup which may end up resolving the attack speed issue. I was trying to use the integrated bonuses for weapons as well as attacks per round. The problem is that I can set APR to be level based, I could not do that with THAC0 and Attack Speed as they register as soon as you put a proficiency point in.

    That leaves me with 2 options regarding THAC0. I could make it so that it is level based and proficiency based using scripting. However, it would affect all weapons and not just that weapon type (IE- 2 points in blunt will give you a +2 THAC0 with all weapons, but just +1 APR with blunt). A case can be made that if you want to invest points into alternate weapon styles, it will allow you to hit better with all weapons, but not receive all benefits as extra attacks.

    Option 2 would be to just have Blunt, Piercing and Slashing give ONLY +APR, and then give THAC0 bonuses somewhere else, like Power (and I already give a bonus under Precision). That really scales down what learning a weapon style gives, but it still supplies the most powerful benefit (extra attacks).

    I am leaning towards option1.

    Lets say you want to be good with maces. You put 2 points into blunt weapons and now you have a +2 THAC0 and +.5 APR. You pick up a longsword for s and gs. You retain the ability to hit targets, as training with a weapon still increases hand eye and experience on the field, but you do not get bonus APR, but you really aren't THAT trained with longswords.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,577
    Option 1 is good, but maybe lower the bonuses to attack (?). Eg +1 thac0 for two points

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    edited August 2015
    After reconsidering, this is the road I plan on using, partially out of simplicity and partially to make proficiencies matter more.

    Having no proficiency points in a weapon will allow you to attack 1 time every 2 rounds. (1/2)
    Each point in Piercing, Slashing and Blunt will simply give +.5 attacks, maxing out at +3.5 (plus the .5 you start with gives a base 4). That is all those proficiencies will give. In concept, training just allows you to attack more often.

    Power and Coordination have been slightly reworked.

    Power gives +1 Damage per point to all weapons. It also give a bonus +1 damage at prof points 1, 3, 5, 7 and a small chance to stun at 2, 4, 6 to weapons you wield with nothing in your off-hand (single weapon style and two-weapon style). The presumption is that you need your off-hand free for a single weapon to hit harder or stun.

    Coordination will give +1 THAC0 to base THAC0. In addition, it will provide a +1 THACO OH on points 1, 3, 5, 7 and a +1 AC on points 2, 4, 6 due to parry (if you are holding an off-hand weapons or you have no weapons equipped at all) or block (if you have a shield).

    The plan was to make coordination more useful than just providing a THAC0 bonus to off hand weapons and have it focus on using an item in both hands, while power focuses on just one item.

    Along the same idea, Avoidance will now get a bonus to AC if you are unarmored.

    Post edited by wolpak on
    Grammarsalad
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Dropped the separate resistances and combined them into one and added alchemy.

    Prevention:
    1:+20 Fire
    2:+20 Cold
    3:+20 Elec
    4:+20 Acid
    5:+20 Fire/Elec
    6:+20 Cold/Acid
    7:+20 Elemental

    Alchemy will be a passive ability that will create a random potion in your inventory after camp, once every day/3days/week (have to figure out the best balance).

    Potions will be categorized by rank (new ones added) and each proficiency point allows better potions to be made.

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    edited August 2015
    Changes this post to adjust changes to Alchemy. I decided that I loves me some synergy and that's what Alchemy will bring to the table.

    Alchemy will work as follows. Each rank in Alchemy will allow the character to brew a potion after a set period of time and after camping. The presumption is that the character is capable of gathering the proper ingredients over that time and then brew the potion while the party is camping. Since we are unaware of what the player is collecting, it is known to him/her, but not to us, thus, they create a random potion within their skill level.

    Each proficiency rank will require 1 day of ingredient collection (ie.- 1 point: 1 day, 4 points: 4 days and 7 points: 7 days) This will make sure that the best potions are less likely to be available while all of them will be plentiful.

    The major change from Alchemy 1.0 is that instead of the standard potion creation of heal, or + damage or whatnot, all potions will be tied into the proficiency system. You will be able to brew a potion that gives you the benefits from a proficiency based on the type of potion you brewed.

    There will be 3 different potions per specialization:
    1: Potion of Avoidance Competency (3 rank equivalence)
    2: Potion of Avoidance Specialization (5 rank equivalence)
    3: Potion of Avoidance Grand Mastery (7 rank equivalence)

    What the potion will do is evaluate the drinker's current proficiency level in the potion that they drank. It will then "increase" their ranks in that proficiency for a limited time. So, if you have 2 ranks in avoidance (-2 AC) and drink a Potion of Avoidance Specialization, it will create an equivalency of having 5 ranks in Avoidance (-5 AC). When it wears off, you will revert back to your standard -2 AC.

    21 of the 24 proficiencies will have potions represented. Alchemy will not as the duration is way too short for it to have any value. Devotion and Acumen (more priest and wizard spell) will not as well as they require sleep as well.

    Ranks in Alchemy:
    1: Competency Potions of Avoidance, Fortitude, Prevention, Insight, Mobility, Power and Coordination
    2: Competency Potions of Resistance, Tenacity, Disabling, Piercing, Slashing, Blunt and Marksmanship
    3: Competency Potions of Obstinacy, Immunization, Willpower, Magnetism, Aptitude, Enrage, and Precision
    4: Specialization Potions of Avoidance, Fortitude, Prevention, Insight, Mobility, Power and Coordination
    5: Specialization Potions of Resistance, Tenacity, Disabling, Piercing, Slashing, Blunt and Marksmanship
    6: Specialization Potions of Obstinacy, Immunization, Willpower, Magnetism, Aptitude, Enrage, and Precision
    7: Grand Mastery Potions of Everything

    The idea is to make each potion have a duration of 5 rounds.

    Post edited by wolpak on
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Updated previous post on Alchemy (which I think will add an interesting wrinkle). Also mulled over some obstacles that are pretty frustrating.

    First was weaponry and that there is no way for me to put a statistical minimum on piercing, blunt and slashing. Given the engine and what's available to mod, I had no choice but to allow them to be statistic free and adjust the other proficiencies to balance it out.

    Second, and something that I hadn't thought of that will require a bit of work, is that I script based on party slot. My scripting says "Player1", "Player2", and so on. While this works if nobody leaves the party (ie Icewind Dale) it doesn't work if someone does leave as you now have a new player2 with values from the old player2. I think I have found a solution, by using them as temporary variables and creating one for each possible party member, and then set them as party members come and leave. It should work in theory :)

    Grammarsalad
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Spell Augementing: taking a step further with allowing clerics to cast heal spells on the fly, all classes that can cast will be able to augment their spells.

    Clerics: will be able to convert any spell into a healing spell of that level. In addition, regular healing spells will have a lesser cast time to make them more usable in battle and give a reason to still pick them.

    Druids: instead of an innate ability to shapeshift, Druids will be able to use any spell to shapeshift into various forms. This will also require some rebalancing of their kits.

    Paladins: they will be able to convert any spell into "smite". This will give them extra damage and thac0 on their melds attacks. I am still debating whether to have this on just next successful attack or for 2 rounds.

    Rangers: they can now convert their spells into "call pet". This will summon a pet, based on the level of the spell, that will aid the ranger in his do-goodness.

    Wizards: they will be able to convert any spell into a magic missile type of attack (power yet to be determined). It gives them more reason to memorize spells they would not normally.

    Sorcerers: will be able to convert any spell into a drain life type ability. Still contemplating this one.

    Bards: will be able to convert any spell into identify. Identify will change from revealing what the item is to a level based more bonus.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,577
    wolpak said:

    Spell Augementing: taking a step further with allowing clerics to cast heal spells on the fly, all classes that can cast will be able to augment their spells.

    Clerics: will be able to convert any spell into a healing spell of that level. In addition, regular healing spells will have a lesser cast time to make them more usable in battle and give a reason to still pick them.

    Druids: instead of an innate ability to shapeshift, Druids will be able to use any spell to shapeshift into various forms. This will also require some rebalancing of their kits.

    Paladins: they will be able to convert any spell into "smite". This will give them extra damage and thac0 on their melds attacks. I am still debating whether to have this on just next successful attack or for 2 rounds.

    Rangers: they can now convert their spells into "call pet". This will summon a pet, based on the level of the spell, that will aid the ranger in his do-goodness.

    Wizards: they will be able to convert any spell into a magic missile type of attack (power yet to be determined). It gives them more reason to memorize spells they would not normally.

    Sorcerers: will be able to convert any spell into a drain life type ability. Still contemplating this one.

    Bards: will be able to convert any spell into identify. Identify will change from revealing what the item is to a level based more bonus.

    Flavorful. I like it!

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Thanks for the positive feedback :)

    One new skill that fighters will get is the ability Taunt. Taunt will give a chance for a fighter to make the 3 nearest enemies within 20 feet attack him instead of whomever the enemy was attacking.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,577
    wolpak said:

    Thanks for the positive feedback :)

    One new skill that fighters will get is the ability Taunt. Taunt will give a chance for a fighter to make the 3 nearest enemies within 20 feet attack him instead of whomever the enemy was attacking.

    I have been thinking about creating an ability like that for ages! I never investigated how to do it, though

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    edited August 2015
    I did it through the hidden summon trick.

    Ability calls summon, summon then determines enemies within a range, and if so, they action override them to attack the player.

    Of course, if you want to give saving throw modifications, the script gets much more complicated. I am planning a modified version where the odds are reduced slightly based on saves bs death.

    Post edited by wolpak on
    Grammarsalad
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    While I am working on adjusting the implementation, I have added a new set of skills that should definitely change the way fighters and barbarians are played. They have always fared less than spell casters and even thieves in terms of interactivity. Most of the time they are set and forget. Not no more.

    I named this mechanic "combo", for no other reason than I really didn't have a better name. It will work as follows. In the middle of writing this, I decided "Adrenaline" is more apt of a name.

    A fighter or barbarian can select "Adrenaline-*ABILITY*" where *ABILITY* can be Crit, Powerstrike, Stun, or others that I am debating on.

    Once they select one of those abilities, each hit that they successfully make on an enemy increases a counter. Once that counter hits a certain number (let's say 10), the Ability they selected will be available to them to use for a short period of time. After that time or the ability is used, the counter will reset to 0. Also, over time, the counter will slowly decrease to 0 as your "adrenaline" tapers off.

    Ex- A fighter has selected Crit and and Stun. He continually attacks monsters as his hit counter reaches 10. He will "flash" to let you know he now has new skills available. You will have 2 or 3 round to use the skills before they disappear. If he chooses Crit, his next attack will be a critical attack. If he chooses Stun, his next attack will stun for 2 rounds. If he later chooses Powerstrike as an ability, it will show up too allowing him to hit for +5 damage.

    Those numbers are preliminary, but you get the point.

    GrammarsaladIllustair
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