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Bringing Dorn, still want to make my own blackguard, weapon issues

DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
As the topic says, I'm making an evil party for BGEE and BG2EE, and I'm going to bring Dorn along for the ride. The problem is, that I'd like to play a blackguard myself.

I realize that an assassin would fit my party better, but I'm very much a paladin at heart. Thus, playing a corrupted version of myself would be fun. The other issue here, is that I was going to run it at the same time as my own new paladin. That paladin is going to run Sword and Shield through ToB, (I've done DW paladin before and beaten the game. I felt like I cheated because of doing it. Just didn't fit flavor wise and I'd EEkeepered it). So I was going to make my own blackguard the opposite. 2h weapon, full damage, has a ranged weapon etc.

Then I remembered I wanted dorn, and realized that I would literally be fighting him for every piece of gear I wanted.

HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!

(For the record, the assassin's mirror will likely be the NG blade that I'm playing in theory).

PS: I do intend on running a blackguard eventually at least. I'm going to try to match @Blackraven and @bengoshi and turn into the forums Paladin Master/Expert. So these runs will likely be no-reload as well. I haven't decided on SCS yet =/

Comments

  • Rylorn23Rylorn23 Member Posts: 77
    I am paladin type too. If you wish go with blackguard kit, then there is sometimes no point have two characters with same kits and abilities. When I last played as a blackguard, my party members were Kagain, Shar-Teel (using EEkeeper to rise her Inteligence to 17 and then dual-class her to fighter/mage), Viconia, Montaron and Edwin. It's was quite fun with BG1 NPC project mod and romance with Shar-Teel was really hard. But is your choice to take Dorn with you. The problem is, that he doesn't have any banters like in BG1 NPC project and he only speaks with charname about his life in Luskan and how he became blackguard. I don't even like his claptrap about my party members like "Do you worry it is a mistake to bring others on your mission? Someone could betray you." I rather stick with original bioware characters.
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    In melee I would use them as a pair: One going in first with sword and shield to take the hits, closely followed by the second with two-handed weapon or dual wielding to do real damage - that way, acting as one big fighter, they can utilise all the best kit.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    edited September 2015

    So I was going to make my own blackguard the opposite. 2h weapon, full damage, has a ranged weapon etc.

    I'd recommend you to think about what roles you want your Blackguard, Dorn, and possible other warriors to play, and what weapons you want them to use.
    You say you want to go 2h weapon. What if your Blackguard looked more or less like this:
    image
    Would that solve your dilemma? Dorn could be a swords man (bastard swords, 2h swords) and your Blackguard a halberd-wielding grim reaper. He or she could also use bows for range attacking. Alternatively you could keep Dorn as a sword-and-board warrior and your Blackguard as a two-hander who also uses 2h swords. The slight problem with Dorn is that with 16 Dex and 14 CON, and no Paladin-style Protection from Evil Dorn isn't very resilient. A guy like Kagain (or in BG2, Korgan) with his crazy HPs, Dwarven saves and optimally benefiting the Dex gloves, fits that role much better. Despite his 19 STR, which suggests a melee role for him, I've had the best experiences with Dorn in BG1 using him as an archer with the Light Crossbow of Speed: poison weapon with 3 APR is very effective. Never used him in BG2; he might be a better tank there (with more HPs, and items like Shield of Harmony, Dragon armors etc).

    Apart from the question of roles and weapons, I think there are more than enough suits of enchanted armor, helmets, necklaces etc. to properly outfit a party of four to six warriors, so having Dorn, Kagain/Korgan and your Blackguard in one party shouldn't lead to brawls over items.
    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,724
    I salute your effort, go for it, @Dragonspear

    If you want make your own blackguard with a 2h weapon, full damage, a ranged weapon etc., then you're free to do it. If you pick Dorn as soon as possible, you can still give him 2 pips in BG1. Or you can even change Dorn's proficiencies with the EE-Keeper so that your main character uses the weapons you want and Dorn uses different weapons.

    P.S. Fixed the blackraven's post fo fix the page :)
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    edited September 2015
    There really is no issue here. Let's look at your options:

    GEAR:
    Armor: There are plenty of full plate mails in the game, which is the best armor on BG1 coupled with ring or amulet of protections.
    Helmets: There aren't alot of good helmets, but just use what you find and replace whenever you find helmet of defence, glory, balduran's and charm protection etc.
    Belts: One can use vs crushing, the other vs slashing/piercing. Don't use vs piercing with boots on the same char, split them out so you get one each. There are alot of archers in BG and weilding a twohander it's good to have high AC vs missile/Piercing.
    Gloves: There are two gloves of weapon skill you can use, but not really needed since you will both have high THAC0. Dorn can use dex gloves, but I guess someone else need them more. You can use the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise when you find them.
    Boots: ..of avoidance for Dorn (he prolly has less HP than your CHARNAME), boots of speed/grounding/north for you.

    WEAPONS
    Two handed swords: Dorn can use his own sword for a long time while you run and get spider's bane. Then you can use the +3 one (from Durlag's), and give spider's bane to Dorn late-game.
    You can use sword and board and use Dorn with twohanded swords, or vice versa.
    You can use army scythe with poison or give it to Dorn and use a bow yourself.

    So, IMHO, there really isn't an issue with running two blackguards. It's really not that different than having ie Minsc + a Paladin Charname.

    Edit: Poison stacks, so having two might be overkill. I've coupled an assassin with Dorn and that was pretty good. Not sure if aura of despair stacks though? Anyone knows? Would be pretty good if it did.

    Have fun!
    //Skat.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    Getting ready to head into work, so only a short follow-up for now.

    I think my PC will run S&S with Korgan, and have dorn right behind us. It'll also allow me to have Kagain DW in BG2.

    And that means my cavalier will likely use 2h weapons (poor Keldorn might have to stay with his family)
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    Dorn's BG2 quest will give him a unique greatsword that only he can use (actually, I think he gets a choice of 3 depending on his actions) so Irr(whatever the spelling)val can be used by your guy... but why not rig him up for blunt weapons? Hammers and flails are amazing and IMO really suit a dark knight with shield.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    @abacus

    I definitely plan on using FoA with my blackguard. And blackrazor once I get it. Those I think will be my main 2 weapons in BG2/ToB
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited September 2015
    I would recommend you just start and let your character develop appropriately to the weapons you have on hand. From the get go you are covered for Shield and Sword style (assuming you are planning on taking it) so the rest of your points can go into whatever weapons you think appropriate (and you can only get up to specialization so that means a lot of different weapons). Basically with access to poison weapon I wouldn't worry about it too much.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    @elminster

    I think you're sorta on the right track there. Honestly with just flails and longswords, even the blackguard should be set for the entire saga. The cavalier is going to be a bit more interesting. Looks like I'll either be running my own inquisitor or an undead hunter for actual 2h weapons later on =)
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    I'd recommend dual wielding, to be honest. Blackguards have poison which is an effect per hit.

    Mainhand: Blackrazor (super evil longsword. +3, so it can hit most things. But more importantly, +1 HP every 5 seconds, Immune to charm and fear, 15% chance to drain 4 levels from enemy and heal, haste, and raise strength of weilder by 3)

    Offhand: Belm (+2, which isn't that good, but...+1 APR!)

    Add in the gauntlets of extraordinary specialization for the extra 1/2 attacks per round...and you will rip anything apart. The poison has no saving throw, so spellcasters will quickly die. Heck, anything will lose a big chunk of their HP from the poison alone. But on top of that, you will consistently be draining their levels, healing yourself, increasing your strength and regenerating health on top of that.


    S22 naturally (tome from BG1, Hell trials, lum the mad), which turns into Str25 with the sword. With that, Dorn will cry in envy of Charname's abilities.



    image
  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    edited October 2015
    You can make a good case for using Blackrazor, but there is another way to go in BG2.

    Train your guy in halberds and THW. In TOB Let Dorn have Agur-what's-it+5, while you grab Ravager. Upgrade it to it's ridiculously OP +6 form (note: you need the serpent staff from WK to do this). With Ravager and GWW you can kill anything in 1 round.

    You get the +4 version of Ravager from the dead body of an elemental prince of fire. Note that if you have Wave (also a Halberd!) you can kill him in one shot.

  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    edited October 2015
    For the curious: Ravager+6 is a vorpal weapon which can also poison. GWW-> 10 APR, with 10% chance of instant death for every hit.

    image
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Even if you are going to use a shield, I recommend not putting pips in the style and instead grabbing an extra weapon specialisation. The SnS style is truly a waste of pips.
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307

    Even if you are going to use a shield, I recommend not putting pips in the style and instead grabbing an extra weapon specialisation. The SnS style is truly a waste of pips.

    It has some utility in BG1, where missile weapons can be a serious threat. If you can manipulate the AI to only target your sword&board (hopefully with the piercing belt too), you can get some decent milage.

    But I'd agree that it is utterly pointless from SoA-onwards.

    On the other hand, Blackguards are limited to specialisation only... so unless you want to invest in dual-wielding (powerful, but often down to taste Rp-wise), you'll be rolling in proficiencies before long.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    I admit, dual wielding would be best.

    That said, other games I play (coughdragonagecough) only give warrior types the options of 2h or S&S. And more to the point, I like the flavor of it. Sure, I'll be missing extra attacks (or offhand weapon abilities), but I can still take whirlwind to make up for it.

    So ya, going S&S is just for flavor.
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307

    I admit, dual wielding would be best.

    That said, other games I play (coughdragonagecough) only give warrior types the options of 2h or S&S. And more to the point, I like the flavor of it. Sure, I'll be missing extra attacks (or offhand weapon abilities), but I can still take whirlwind to make up for it.

    So ya, going S&S is just for flavor.

    Backing you here, bro! I hate dual-wield... it really bugs me that it is so mechanically superior.
  • A couple ideas for ranged weapons: Darts and Daggers can both be used without having to take off your shield, and the extra APR gets more bang out of Poison Weapon. Darts of Wounding are fun for stacking poison, and Darts of Stunning + Poison Weapon is just plain rude. Daggers will do more damage, though, since they can make use of your (DUHM-boosted) Strength. Poisoned Daggers are tasty, if harder to come by in quantity than Darts of Wounding, and either of the returning daggers in BG2 will serve you well.

    Arrows of Detonation + poison weapon in BGEE is ridiculous fun, but you might want to designate Dorn for that, since he'll get to reset proficiencies when you jump to SoA, where Arrows of Detonation are harder to come by.

    I'll second people saying to avoid SnS style. It may feel like you have more proficiency points than you could ever need, and maybe you do, but your slower level-up rate means it can take longer than you expect to get the next two points you need for that weapon you want to use. After all, it'll take all your proficiency points under the BGEE level cap to do main weapon + blunt alternate + ranged option.

    Plus, you have the opportunity to tailor your proficiencies to whatever works best in each game. You can start BGEE with Longswords and Darts, pick up Flails along then way, and then nab Dagger proficiency in BG2 for when enemies stop failing saves against the special darts and you get tired of having them clogging up your inventory. At that point, you won't specialize another weapon until you start getting HLAs.
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