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SoD Effects on BG2EE

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  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Well, combat is different; five different characters might be contributing to a given fight, whereas a lock is only ever picked by one character. Same thing for learning spells; the fighter isn't contributing to the mage's spell-writing, it's all on the mage.

    I honestly don't know that I'd use XP rewards for those things at all, personally; like you say, the fighter's doing the lion's share of the fighting, most of the time. But if individual tasks are giving XP, they should give it to the characters who are performing those tasks, not the characters who are explicitly prohibited from doing so.

    JuliusBorisovelminster
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,296
    Also combat is different in the sense that whether or not you successfully learned a scroll, opened a lock, or removed a trap is a lot simpler than how you could possibly account for combat experience (because lots of spells don't deal damage but rather disable enemies or boost your own party).

  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368
    elminster said:

    Also combat is different in the sense that whether or not you successfully learned a scroll, opened a lock, or removed a trap is a lot simpler than how you could possibly account for combat experience (because lots of spells don't deal damage but rather disable enemies or boost your own party).

    It's pretty easy to note that someone did SOMETHING in combat. The issue is if you argue that "well, that fighter didn't help unlock that chest or scribe that scroll, why should THEY get a cut of the xp?", you inadvertently make the argument of "Well, if the wizard didn't cast anything or sling some bullets during that fight, why did THEY get a cut of the xp?".

    If you make the argument that combat is a group effort and individual contribution isn't as important, you can make the same argument for scribing scrolls and unlocking chests. The wizard wouldn't be copying that scroll if the group hadn't picked it up as party treasure or bought it with party funds, and the thief wouldn't be picking that lock if the fighters hadn't killed whatever was guarding that chest and restrained themselves from bashing it open anyway.

    FaydarkKilivitz
  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 302
    Best way is just to think of xp as an abstract concept thats sort of averaged out. By and large different characters will contribute differently to most fights. The elder scrolls way is the opposite with specific actions tied to skill increases but that's too much for a party based game in my opinion.

    Kilivitz
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    @Dee - the notion of an xp bonus from scribing scrolls and picking locks/disarming traps comes directly from 2nd Edition PnP, where is /was/ a character-specific bonus. Each class had a way to earn bonuses for that character doing things specific to their class, distinct from the party xp pool. For fighters, it was engaging in solo combat, with an xp bonus proportional to the xp of the monster - but that would have been too easy to game the system in a computer game. I can't remember what the clerical bonus was, and monks, bards, and sorcerers are completely beyond my experience, back in the day.

    JuliusBorisovMusigny
  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 364
    edited February 2016

    Lifat said:

    Honestly, sleep is probably the most OP thing in bg1ee.

    Well, that's true in the first half of BG1, it's a win-button spell against trivial mobs. But it's useless against all enemies over level 4, so it's not nearly so impressive in the later stages of BG1 (and useless in BG2).

    Nevertheless, I agree that describing Mages as "nearly useless" in BG1ee was a ridiculous comment.

    Then use a second level spell: Horror, a great crowd control spell which is friendly and affects almost everything in the game (except undead). In fact, I find it overpowered for its level. Your third level mage should be able to cast it.

  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 364
    Dee said:

    I always thought it was weird that the Open Lock/Learn Spell XP rewards should have been specific to the character that performed the action. It never made sense to me that the party's fighter might gain a level because the mage in the group spent five minutes writing things down.


    I also found it strange. HOWEVER, if you give XP for learning spells or opening things/disarming traps to a few particular classes (mages and thieves) then you have to find some source so that warriors and clerics can get some XP also. To keep balance on XP gain.

    Musigny
  • LifatLifat Member Posts: 353
    Bigfish said:

    elminster said:

    Also combat is different in the sense that whether or not you successfully learned a scroll, opened a lock, or removed a trap is a lot simpler than how you could possibly account for combat experience (because lots of spells don't deal damage but rather disable enemies or boost your own party).

    It's pretty easy to note that someone did SOMETHING in combat. The issue is if you argue that "well, that fighter didn't help unlock that chest or scribe that scroll, why should THEY get a cut of the xp?", you inadvertently make the argument of "Well, if the wizard didn't cast anything or sling some bullets during that fight, why did THEY get a cut of the xp?".

    If you make the argument that combat is a group effort and individual contribution isn't as important, you can make the same argument for scribing scrolls and unlocking chests. The wizard wouldn't be copying that scroll if the group hadn't picked it up as party treasure or bought it with party funds, and the thief wouldn't be picking that lock if the fighters hadn't killed whatever was guarding that chest and restrained themselves from bashing it open anyway.
    Exactly the point I was trying to make, except more eloquently written.

  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 302
    XP is fine as an abstract concept. I think like quest xp the goal is to reward world interaction that's non combat based activity. It might be nice to see some pickpocket xp. I cant think of much else that would make sense though.

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