1. The adventure "Black Pits" is not even incorporated within the game itself.
True, although there is another big questline coming that is in the game.
2. Portraits are not in style with the original portraits.
That doesn't prove that BG:EE is a moneygrab, i haven't seen any portrait consistency in BG series or portrait packs, because simply they can never be done by the same person. Have you seen paintings by different people that have the same style? Different artists - different styles. It's not that bad.
3. 95% of "400 fixes" are being done by the gamers/community, not developers. It's free labor.
Some of them fixes are being proposed by the community that is testing yeah. Certainly not 95%. However, in short, yeah it's obvious an enhanced edition needs to get rid of bugs, but no, i would not consider it a major selling point, especially since many fixpacks exist already. So i guess you have half a point here, although you're voicing it kinda weird.
4. Some refinement content is being added from modders who gave them their permission, Beamdog just added it to the game, just like anyone can. PPE yes.
I don't have a problem with some mods being in, although i don't agree with the mentality of putting mod stuff instead of original work, even if it's difficult because of budget. No excuses.
5. Translations are done by gamers/community.
True, the localisation is kinda expensive, and if people appear that can do it for free, well you let them do it. Although i agree that it seems kinda like they're trying to save funds every possible way.
6. User interface does not feel professionally made. Yes I know Beamdog has been telling how much they have to fight the code, but that's not the customers problem. That's YOUR problem, especially since we are paying for this product.
That is your opinion, i don't have anything to say about it.
7. Widescreen and high resolutions has also been made available by modders, once again, it's been done by the community/gamers.
That is not true actually. The widescreen mod sucks majorly, since it does not upscale anything, it just moves the camera further away, making the game not so amazingly playable.
In conclusion, i think that it's not exactly a moneygrab, it's an attempt to make their name more known and make their company bigger, while taking a risk. It would be a moneygrab, had it been any other game, and although yes, the argument can backfire, it is the truth that BG:EE involves a huge risk because the critics will be mercyless. So, if it would be just a moneygrab, it would be game over for them. Indeed, they try to lower the cost as much as possible, but calling it a moneygrab till i actually see it in full form is a bit too far.
My own complaints about BG:EE are the absence of any real visual enhancements, and the fact that they decided to use BG2 animations for it. That's the only things i care about, i'll be honest. UIs, portraits, soundsets, whatever. I don't care. So i'll say just a bit about these two things. Or actually about one of them, i'll post the other in the post ship stuff.
You said that BG:EE will be mod friendly, i hope it's true. I am using one mod usually, for BG or BG2 (and trilogy which is not needed any more), that's Infinity Animations, so i can use the BG1 animations for any character i wish. If i can use Infinity Animations, aka, if the stuff from BG1 animations is included in the data of BG:EE, or it is implemented in some other way(used through an editor for example), i'll be happy. But if i can't, then the whole argument about the strength of BG:EE being the no need for mods just falls apart for me.
I hope they deliver better than anyone hopes for in the end.
BGEE sold by Beamdog: $19.99 Chitchatting on BGEE forum for 30 minutes: 3$ (time is money right?) Having your all time favorite game brought back from oblivion so you can relive some of your great memories? PRICELESS ...
Those are fair complaints, Hadriel. But the answers to them presented in this thread are excellent. And I think the answers win the argument. All the pluses still outweigh the minuses for a mere 18 bucks.
In the balance, BG:EE is offering me enough value for a price that seems fair to me. That doesn't mean Beamdog can get away with anything but absolutely, totally busting their hump to deliver the best possible product they have in them. I still hope for BG:EE to exceed my expectations.
So I see that a lot of people (not just in this thread) are justifying their purchase of BGEE by the hope of seeing BG3 someday. While I disagree almost completely with the OP, I think justifying the purchase of BGEE on the grounds that it will make BG3 more likely is foolish and irrational. BGEE should stand on its own merit. BG3 can't serve as a shield against potentially valid arguments against BGEE.
You know, there is this other group, they made an enhanced edition as well, it's called Black Source: Mesa. I'm part of the team. How come we have managed to actually make a quality product without charging for it? On the other hand, you got "professionals" at Beamdog, again with a BUDGET, and they turn out this, and actually want cash for it. I'm a fanboy of Baldur's Gate too, and would probably defend it to death as well, had our roles reversed. I understand how you feel.
I agree with Dragonspear. Let's not turn this forum into 1 of those typical, modern day ones i've been winessing these past few years where people with big chips on their shoulders deride and demean everyone else for having a different opinion. I've no idea what Hadriel's problem is or why he's so hostile. Your arguments Hadriel are thin and you haven't even properly supported your own arguments with proof or evidence or quotes or squadoosh. Give us examples and proof about your "95% of the 400 changes" argument as well as how you know this? What's your source for these facts and your other points? Do you speak with that community?(i'm assuming you're talking of either SHS or G3)? Has anyone in those communities made any accusations or complained that their work had been stolen?(i frequent those forums and haven't seen any of this). As for Corvino, i agree as well.Grumbling for the sake of grumbling is counter-productive and doesn't stand you in a good light. I was going to add few points but this old dog is hungry and needs grub. cheers
The developers have already confirmed that some of these interactions occur in the old areas. They can make new content for the old characters if they're interacting with new content (which includes the new NPCs).
Does that sound like 20 dollars worth to you? I would love someone to objectively disagree with me.
I agreed with you until this point.
Same here, Id rather waste my money on a good game though the concept is pretty cheap (Only the concept because coding isn't) than a generic game that I would forget in 2 days.
I don't think it was meant to be a money grab, but I think they were unable to do what they set out to do (like the failure to be able to do "HD").
Unfortunately, the "improvements" I have seen do not justify the $20 price, or even the $18 I paid. $10-15 is about it.... and that is money for BGI. I don't see where anything can/will be done to improve the pc version of BGII over what it is. User interface? I like the old one enough. I don't care for standalone adventures not tied into the story. I am not going to play with an evil character in the party, so in all I might see 4 extra hours of BG gameplay. That is fine for BGI, but insignificant for BGII. Unless something surprises me in this EE version, I will probably not purchase BGII.
Now, I hope nobody gets bent out of shape over my statements. I paid $18 in hopes it leads to future development of BGIII, or another GOOD FR game. The problem is that we who have done that are not a majority market. The success of these EE editions are likely to lay in the Android/Ipad editions.
I don't think it was meant to be a money grab, but I think they were unable to do what they set out to do (like the failure to be able to do "HD").
Unfortunately, the "improvements" I have seen do not justify the $20 price, or even the $18 I paid. $10-15 is about it.... and that is money for BGI. I don't see where anything can/will be done to improve the pc version of BGII over what it is. User interface? I like the old one enough. I don't care for standalone adventures not tied into the story. I am not going to play with an evil character in the party, so in all I might see 4 extra hours of BG gameplay. That is fine for BGI, but insignificant for BGII. Unless something surprises me in this EE version, I will probably not purchase BGII.
Now, I hope nobody gets bent out of shape over my statements. I paid $18 in hopes it leads to future development of BGIII, or another GOOD FR game. The problem is that we who have done that are not a majority market. The success of these EE editions are likely to lay in the Android/Ipad editions.
But once again, is this a team we want making Baldur's Gate III? Black Isle is nothing but shadows and dust now, and Trent Oster and his boys don't have what it takes to carry the weight that is Baldur's Gate III.
The day James Ohlen and Kevin Martens sign on the project, you can have my money. Heck, I'll fork over 500 $ if they are on board.
One more thing, I don't care if you have a god damn IPAD or whatever that you cuddle with before you go to sleep. This is from the perspective of PC gamers only.
@Hadriel, I doubt any current game maker could fully live up to the quality of BGI/BGII. Companies are to concerned with mass profit to spend that much money and effort in a game again. That is just reality. Look at the MW franchise. All 3 games together have a strong story line and great acting for about a total of 1/4 of BGI's gameplay, and about 1/10 of BGII/TOB. It is unfortunate, but reality.
FWIW Obsidian is more or less BIS, but BG was Bioware/BIS.
There is power in kickstarter, if done right, by the right people. And that ain't Trent Oster/Beamdog. To all you fanboys, I'm sorry, but I don't jizz in my pants when I hear Beamdog "considering possibility of BG3". Wake up already.
There is power in kickstarter, if done right, by the right people. And that ain't Trent Oster/Beamdog. To all you fanboys, I'm sorry, but I don't jizz in my pants when I hear Beamdog "considering possibility of BG3". Wake up already.
I was wondering, is fanboys all you see here?
People are not Beamdog fanboys, they didn't even know about its existence before they involved themselves with BG.
As for the jizzing your pants about BG3 by Beamdog, people don't care who makes it, as long as it's good, and by the way, Blizzard with Diablo 3 crap says hi.
If they can do it, they will be judged in the end for how good they made it, BG:EE or BG3, if and whenever that happens.
I have my gripes about BG:EE as well, but calling people fanboys because they are waiting for it, or preorder it, or wanting a BG3 by Beamdog?
Yeah, good job dude.
But hey, if you want to wake people up, and you believe they will buy just anything, you could try to make a fortune out of making the Hadriel Alarm Clock(TM).
I think it's a bit early to say anything. I would rather wait till I've actually played it before making a decision if it's worth it. Though I did pre-pay it anyway...
Also, I do not think they had a high expectation of profits on this, so they did not plan too much. But as it was said, the pre-purchases alone had already greatly surpassed their expectations. If the game does well, I'm sure they will do a great job of adding new things or fixing this game further, as well as have more resources to improve BG2, thus making it even better.
Diablo 3 failed because developers behind it are complete shit (with some exceptions). All I am asking for, is that since you have the nerve and balls to try and improve on a legendary game, then do so in correct manner. I mean seriously, what's up with those icewind dale portraits in BG? A professional getting paid can't even bring some consistency to the table?
Although i disagree with a lot of things you say, and how you say them mostly, and although i think 13 euros (18 dollars) is ok for this game they offer, i expected something different from BG:EE, or rephrasing it, it didn't touch the points i wanted upgraded, and i might not even be able to use my favorite mods in it.
Anyway, that is no reason to call people fanboys and to "wake them up", as you say.
If this is indeed a money grab as you call it, it will show as the critics will be mercyless and not too many will buy it. Especially fans of BG that feel it's not worth it.
But if it sells, it doesn't mean that people are fanboys or blind sheep. It might mean that Beamdog's effort was actually a little more worth than what you suggest.
Who the hell said that Beamdog is worthy of making Baldur's Gate III? Just because they have some of the developers back doesn't mean they have the quality of the original team, not by a longshot. I'm pretty sure all the _key_ members from the original Black Isle are missing, hence this "Enhanced Edition" doesn't smell of quality so far.
By this logic, as I see it, any possible scenario in which the Baldur's Gate series was expanded upon in one way or another completely untenable. I'm sure we'd all like to see the entire original team on Beamdog's payroll, but it's a fairly unreasonable requirement.
Moreover, why on earth are you so... bitter? Or angry? Whatever it is? If you don't think this will be a good product, then don't buy it. I just can't understand why you are so cross that others like it...
I have to agree that this guy is right when he says that beamdog might not have what it takes to make a real BG3. Just look at the portrait : they already fucked up there. The portrait just don't fit with the BG style at all.
If they can't even get the portraits right, then I don't want to imagine how they will handle BG3. It probably won't have the same magic as the two first. Especially the story/environment/NPC, I highly doubt they can recreate NPC of the caliber of Minsk, Edwin, Korgan, Xzar, Haer Dalis...
I fear that their NPC will instead be more similar to nalia (the walking feminist cliche), Jaheira, Aerie, Amoen... Or boring Mass effect like characters.
I`m surprised i just read two pages of this shit. 1 entitled moron spewing butt hurt garbage and a church full of tolerant people rationally picking apart his attempts at arguments in a respectful manner. What`s the world coming to, just hit him over the head and bury the fecker already.
@zarffyn there is that i guess, if i can manage to condense @Hadriel`s version of a personality into an entitled werewolf meme . cant say i`m liking the idea.
I have to echo @Rexfaroensis, why in the world is there so much bitterness and anger?
Maybe Beamdog isn't ready (ability-wise) to make BG3 _right now_, but maybe they will get there. Making addons and DLCs is a great way to get into the right feel tor a game series. I figure they'll makes some new content for BGEE and BGIIEE and see what works. Use what they learn to make any attempt to make a new game that much better. Know your audience, and all that.
Also, isn't Black Mesa being "released" in an incomplete state? I'll bet dollars to donuts that the Xen levels never see the light of day. Honestly, though, I stopped caring about Black Mesa in 2010 or 2011. Half-Life is dead.
Comments
1. The adventure "Black Pits" is not even incorporated within the game itself.
True, although there is another big questline coming that is in the game.
2. Portraits are not in style with the original portraits.
That doesn't prove that BG:EE is a moneygrab, i haven't seen any portrait consistency in BG series or portrait packs, because simply they can never be done by the same person. Have you seen paintings by different people that have the same style? Different artists - different styles. It's not that bad.
3. 95% of "400 fixes" are being done by the gamers/community, not developers. It's free labor.
Some of them fixes are being proposed by the community that is testing yeah. Certainly not 95%. However, in short, yeah it's obvious an enhanced edition needs to get rid of bugs, but no, i would not consider it a major selling point, especially since many fixpacks exist already. So i guess you have half a point here, although you're voicing it kinda weird.
4. Some refinement content is being added from modders who gave them their permission, Beamdog just added it to the game, just like anyone can. PPE yes.
I don't have a problem with some mods being in, although i don't agree with the mentality of putting mod stuff instead of original work, even if it's difficult because of budget. No excuses.
5. Translations are done by gamers/community.
True, the localisation is kinda expensive, and if people appear that can do it for free, well you let them do it. Although i agree that it seems kinda like they're trying to save funds every possible way.
6. User interface does not feel professionally made. Yes I know Beamdog has been telling how much they have to fight the code, but that's not the customers problem. That's YOUR problem, especially since we are paying for this product.
That is your opinion, i don't have anything to say about it.
7. Widescreen and high resolutions has also been made available by modders, once again, it's been done by the community/gamers.
That is not true actually. The widescreen mod sucks majorly, since it does not upscale anything, it just moves the camera further away, making the game not so amazingly playable.
In conclusion, i think that it's not exactly a moneygrab, it's an attempt to make their name more known and make their company bigger, while taking a risk. It would be a moneygrab, had it been any other game, and although yes, the argument can backfire, it is the truth that BG:EE involves a huge risk because the critics will be mercyless. So, if it would be just a moneygrab, it would be game over for them. Indeed, they try to lower the cost as much as possible, but calling it a moneygrab till i actually see it in full form is a bit too far.
My own complaints about BG:EE are the absence of any real visual enhancements, and the fact that they decided to use BG2 animations for it. That's the only things i care about, i'll be honest. UIs, portraits, soundsets, whatever. I don't care. So i'll say just a bit about these two things. Or actually about one of them, i'll post the other in the post ship stuff.
You said that BG:EE will be mod friendly, i hope it's true. I am using one mod usually, for BG or BG2 (and trilogy which is not needed any more), that's Infinity Animations, so i can use the BG1 animations for any character i wish. If i can use Infinity Animations, aka, if the stuff from BG1 animations is included in the data of BG:EE, or it is implemented in some other way(used through an editor for example), i'll be happy. But if i can't, then the whole argument about the strength of BG:EE being the no need for mods just falls apart for me.
I hope they deliver better than anyone hopes for in the end.
Chitchatting on BGEE forum for 30 minutes: 3$ (time is money right?)
Having your all time favorite game brought back from oblivion so you can relive some of your great memories? PRICELESS
...
In the balance, BG:EE is offering me enough value for a price that seems fair to me. That doesn't mean Beamdog can get away with anything but absolutely, totally busting their hump to deliver the best possible product they have in them. I still hope for BG:EE to exceed my expectations.
Give us examples and proof about your "95% of the 400 changes" argument as well as how you know this? What's your source for these facts and your other points? Do you speak with that community?(i'm assuming you're talking of either SHS or G3)? Has anyone in those communities made any accusations or complained that their work had been stolen?(i frequent those forums and haven't seen any of this). As for Corvino, i agree as well.Grumbling for the sake of grumbling is counter-productive and doesn't stand you in a good light. I was going to add few points but this old dog is hungry and needs grub. cheers
The developers have already confirmed that some of these interactions occur in the old areas. They can make new content for the old characters if they're interacting with new content (which includes the new NPCs).
Unfortunately, the "improvements" I have seen do not justify the $20 price, or even the $18 I paid. $10-15 is about it.... and that is money for BGI. I don't see where anything can/will be done to improve the pc version of BGII over what it is. User interface? I like the old one enough. I don't care for standalone adventures not tied into the story. I am not going to play with an evil character in the party, so in all I might see 4 extra hours of BG gameplay. That is fine for BGI, but insignificant for BGII. Unless something surprises me in this EE version, I will probably not purchase BGII.
Now, I hope nobody gets bent out of shape over my statements. I paid $18 in hopes it leads to future development of BGIII, or another GOOD FR game. The problem is that we who have done that are not a majority market. The success of these EE editions are likely to lay in the Android/Ipad editions.
The day James Ohlen and Kevin Martens sign on the project, you can have my money. Heck, I'll fork over 500 $ if they are on board.
FWIW Obsidian is more or less BIS, but BG was Bioware/BIS.
People are not Beamdog fanboys, they didn't even know about its existence before they involved themselves with BG.
As for the jizzing your pants about BG3 by Beamdog, people don't care who makes it, as long as it's good, and by the way, Blizzard with Diablo 3 crap says hi.
If they can do it, they will be judged in the end for how good they made it, BG:EE or BG3, if and whenever that happens.
I have my gripes about BG:EE as well, but calling people fanboys because they are waiting for it, or preorder it, or wanting a BG3 by Beamdog?
Yeah, good job dude.
But hey, if you want to wake people up, and you believe they will buy just anything, you could try to make a fortune out of making the Hadriel Alarm Clock(TM).
Also, I do not think they had a high expectation of profits on this, so they did not plan too much. But as it was said, the pre-purchases alone had already greatly surpassed their expectations. If the game does well, I'm sure they will do a great job of adding new things or fixing this game further, as well as have more resources to improve BG2, thus making it even better.
Anyway, that is no reason to call people fanboys and to "wake them up", as you say.
If this is indeed a money grab as you call it, it will show as the critics will be mercyless and not too many will buy it. Especially fans of BG that feel it's not worth it.
But if it sells, it doesn't mean that people are fanboys or blind sheep. It might mean that Beamdog's effort was actually a little more worth than what you suggest.
Moreover, why on earth are you so... bitter? Or angry? Whatever it is? If you don't think this will be a good product, then don't buy it. I just can't understand why you are so cross that others like it...
The portrait just don't fit with the BG style at all.
If they can't even get the portraits right, then I don't want to imagine how they will handle BG3. It probably won't have the same magic as the two first. Especially the story/environment/NPC, I highly doubt they can recreate NPC of the caliber of Minsk, Edwin, Korgan, Xzar, Haer Dalis...
I fear that their NPC will instead be more similar to nalia (the walking feminist cliche), Jaheira, Aerie, Amoen... Or boring Mass effect like characters.
What`s the world coming to, just hit him over the head and bury the fecker already.
Maybe Beamdog isn't ready (ability-wise) to make BG3 _right now_, but maybe they will get there. Making addons and DLCs is a great way to get into the right feel tor a game series. I figure they'll makes some new content for BGEE and BGIIEE and see what works. Use what they learn to make any attempt to make a new game that much better. Know your audience, and all that.
Also, isn't Black Mesa being "released" in an incomplete state? I'll bet dollars to donuts that the Xen levels never see the light of day. Honestly, though, I stopped caring about Black Mesa in 2010 or 2011. Half-Life is dead.