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BG's well written Heroes and that one Minsc Line

So I wanted to start off by saying, I think the development team has done a pretty great job with the cast of well written hero's in Siege of Dragonspear. They are diverse, interesting, and compelling. From Jaheira to Viconia to Imoen the well written cast reflects a large spectrum of personalities and player fantasies.

With that being said, lets talk about Minsc. From a marketing standpoint, He's the star of the show. He's a great hero. When we look at the way He's portrayed in promotional media, lore, and art in game we know a few things about her..

He's strong.
He's Heroic.
He's Brave.
He's a good ally.
His body seems to be comprised of about 95% Muscle.

Almost all of his lines reflect this. He's got cool phrases:


He's got good hamster care:
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/baldursgategame/images/0/06/Minsc.png/revision/latest?cb=20120113221204

He's got an amazing ending


All of this reinforces the great character you've built around Minsc.

Then out of seemingly no where we have this line:
http://webm.land/media/tmp/53223f64-efd8-4463-89ce-7521ec0b5766.webm


WHAT? What about this line has anything to do with the character you're building in Minsc? It's not fun, its not silly, it has nothing to do with being a strong heroic hero. It just reduces Minsc to another neutered female fantasy.

We aren't looking at a Mizhena lone here, this isn't a character who is in part defined by flaunting the writer's political beliefs. This line says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to stawmen to help boost our social justice game.

Getting lines into a game isn't a small task, it has to go through an implementer, a team lead, a content director, and a voice actor. This is a team effort. And I believe the team is responsible for upholding the great example baldur's gate can set to the rest of the industry for creating consistent characters.

I have a young hamster that everyday when I wake up wants to watch the BG2 ending again. She knows who Boo is, and as she grows up, she can grow up alongside these characters.

What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the Baldur's cast cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create well written characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a minsc line like this undermines so much of the good you've already done.

GodKaiserHellSqueakyWheelDimitriidWillyML4PelmaleonAutocrat
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Comments

  • woowoovoodoowoowoovoodoo Member Posts: 150
    edited April 2016
    It all is indeed about ethics in heroic adventuring. In the most direct, directest sense. Make your (ethical) choice, suffer consequences. What's your actual complaint?

  • InconnuInconnu Member Posts: 99

    It just reduces Minsc to another neutered female fantasy.

    We aren't looking at a Mizhena lone here, this isn't a character who is in part defined by flaunting the writer's political beliefs. This line says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to stawmen to help boost our social justice game.

    So it's a "social justice game" because of one contemporary reference and a minor character?

    Seems like a lot of people are getting bent out of shape over these things because games no longer 100% represent their own world view/morals/politics. Couple tiny things they don't agree with pop up, and it's a travesty. I suggest you reevaluate your priorities and continue enjoying all the other things you said were good with the game.

    gus100DashivaNildarSyntia13
  • YosharianYosharian Member Posts: 67

    I have a young hamster that everyday when I wake up wants to watch the BG2 ending again. She knows who Boo is, and as she grows up, she can grow up alongside these characters.

    What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the Baldur's cast cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create well written characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a minsc line like this undermines so much of the good you've already done.

    lmao

    Well-played, sir. Well-played.

    GodKaiserHellSqueakyWheelIllustair
  • TalysTalys Member Posts: 15
    I registered just to say that OP is now my new hero.

    SqueakyWheel
  • Excalibur_2102Excalibur_2102 Member Posts: 351
    Inconnu said:

    It just reduces Minsc to another neutered female fantasy.

    We aren't looking at a Mizhena lone here, this isn't a character who is in part defined by flaunting the writer's political beliefs. This line says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to stawmen to help boost our social justice game.

    So it's a "social justice game" because of one contemporary reference and a minor character?

    Seems like a lot of people are getting bent out of shape over these things because games no longer 100% represent their own world view/morals/politics. Couple tiny things they don't agree with pop up, and it's a travesty. I suggest you reevaluate your priorities and continue enjoying all the other things you said were good with the game.
    Not only that, you have to click on minsc about 12 times before he says it... Its an easter egg... Talk about Hyperbole

    PurudayaSyntia13
  • JoJoJoJo Member Posts: 18
    It's a potshot they are taking at the GGer crowd, really sad to see. Tho I'm sure it's easy enough to just regard it as non-canon and even mod it out of his voice tree.

    WillyML4
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,206
    Still think what I said in the other thread works:

    ... that's actually a direct quote? Huh. I wouldn't say it it's as out of place for Minsc as it is out of place for the Forgotten Realms themselves, to the extent of my knowledge. Granted there's several lines in the games that often seem like they belong more in our 20th century than a medieval fantasy type setting, but that one's near the top. Any chance you could provide the context though?

    though now I know it's that Gamergate thing.

    What bothers me more than it just not fitting though is... by Mystra that's one horribly voice acted line! It sounds drawn out and really awkward. It sounds about as bad as Jaheira's omni-present authority figure line. Thank goodness is a "Rare Selected" sound so I won't bump into it much.

    SqueakyWheelPelmaleon
  • cdxcdx Member Posts: 77
    CHARNAME pickpockets a random bystander who obviously needs this 10GP way more than the party. Minsc says
    Not a funny line but fits with the character. I'd expect to hear that pretty much all the time if I bring Minsc along in my evil party. The disappointed instructional tone is fitting, too.
    Also, perfect for BG1 and Imoen skulking around, pickpocketing people.

    illathid
  • DeisDeis Member Posts: 24
    I really don't understand the complaint here.

    Minsc has always had a strong ethical and moral compass. There are many occasions where choosing the evil route while he is present will result in him attacking you. Him talking about following a good path or maintaining moral or ethical standards fits perfectly with his personality. Perhaps it doesn't reference Boo or try to evoke a laugh, but there is nothing in that line that is out of the normal.

    Nimran
  • UlbUlb Member Posts: 295
    I take it this line is some reference to that gamergate thing (don't bother explaining, I'm not really interested) but I'm still bothered by the phrasing.
    Minsc would never put it that way and use words like "ethics". For Minsc it's all about being HEROIC and GOOD and threatening evil with hamster-induced blindness...

    Silverstar
  • DeisDeis Member Posts: 24
    "Yes Boo, I agree. This group could do with a swift kick in the morals." A previously existing Minsc quote shows that Minsc has absolutely no problem mentioning morals or ethics.

    Syntia13
  • UPActionsUPActions Member Posts: 8
    Even if the line is appropriate for Minsc, do you really want a reminder of horrible internet arguments by taking him into your party? Is it really appropriate for a professional company to take jabs at something so petty? It would be naive to assume Beamdog didn't know what they were doing, and in this case it sounds like they were putting their emotions before the experience of the player base.

    And that's fine. If they want to conduct their company that way, they can do that. They can take jabs at Trump supporters or Trump haters. They can reference current topical events in snide character remarks. That's their right. It'd just be nice to have an official statement saying that they do care or that they don't care.

    Either statement would help quell the argument.

    AutocratGodKaiserHell
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    UPActions said:


    And that's fine. If they want to conduct their company that way, they can do that. They can take jabs at Trump supporters or Trump haters. They can reference current topical events in snide character remarks. That's their right. It'd just be nice to have an official statement saying that they do care or that they don't care.

    Either statement would help quell the argument.

    Apparently Scott made a post on this forum saying she didn't care.

  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,786
    Ok, here's a legit question. How do you guys know it's a reference to a Gamersgate, not just a coincidence? Has someone for Beamdog confirmed it somehow?

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Cahir said:

    Ok, here's a legit question. How do you guys know it's a reference to a Gamersgate, not just a coincidence? Has someone for Beamdog confirmed it somehow?

    From what I can tell, there has been zero effort to deny it despite the all the divisiveness. Also, for what it is worth, Dee has expressed his dislike for gamergate in the past on this forum (long before I knew what gamergate even was). I didn't know the meme in question existed until today, but the reference does seem to be awfully specific in its language.

    I mean, when people are accused of trolling someone in a game they just released, there is a big uproar, and no one denies it, it seems likely that it was intentional.

  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,786
    Well, but that's just a rare selection sound for gods sake...

    Illustair
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    This is a subject better left for sages and hamsters. Swords, not words!

    IllustairArdulJuliusBorisovkaguana
  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 866
    edited April 2016

    This message is for Beamdog:

    no doubt it's very frustrating to have people focusing on one line or maybe two-three lines from such a huge project, especially when there were plenty of throw away lines in the orginal games. I simply want to offer my support on the overall value of what you've created, and affirm that there are plenty of people who see the big picture and don't get upset by the few things that really seem to wind others up.

    Thanks for the great game. I bought it twice :)

    Can't agree more. What's even more saddening is the fact that a few of the reasonable regular forum members are joining the banwagon against Beamdog over what? A few lines, 2 or 3 at most? Mistake or not, others seem to let these FEW lines define the ENTIRE game. The so much negative attention these lines are making are so unwarranted. Surely not enough to want to bring down the franchise. On that note, I still can't wrap my head around the binaries in metacritic.

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Cahir said:

    Well, but that's just a rare selection sound for gods sake...

    Yeah, I know, but I was just answering your question

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    @Illydth I don't expect anything, I was just speculating based on something a person asked. There is a reason I didn't tag Dee or anyone else, all I did was say that I doubted the line was incidental.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I'll say that to me it's pretty clear what the line is in reference to. But that doesn't mean it's meant as an attack.

    booinyoureyes
  • Incantus89Incantus89 Member Posts: 28
    The OP is a joke, and a near direct quote regarding a change Blizzard did to one of their overwatch characters, just google Tracer + removed pose.

    So while it's all well and good, this was probably just one big troll :P

  • ImryllImryll Member Posts: 24
    Illustair said:

    This message is for Beamdog:

    no doubt it's very frustrating to have people focusing on one line or maybe two-three lines from such a huge project, especially when there were plenty of throw away lines in the orginal games. I simply want to offer my support on the overall value of what you've created, and affirm that there are plenty of people who see the big picture and don't get upset by the few things that really seem to wind others up.

    Thanks for the great game. I bought it twice :)

    Can't agree more. What's even more saddening is the fact that a few of the reasonable regular forum members are joining the banwagon against Beamdog over what? A few lines, 2 or 3 at most? Mistake or not, others seem to let these FEW lines define the ENTIRE game. The so much negative attention these lines are making are so unwarranted. Surely not enough to want to bring down the franchise. On that note, I still can't wrap my head around the binaries in metacritic.

    I can't see that saying the game was generally well-written but that they got the voice wrong in a particular instance is "hating on Beamdog." To me the problem with the line is that it is jarringly abstract. It's not that the sentiment is out of character. It's that Minc would be much more direct, i.e. administer "a boot in the morals" if needed. A major part of Beamdog's stock in trade has been allowing folks to reconnect with beloved characters. They should want to hear about anything that players find to be a barrier to that experience. I thought the OP's post was balanced and constructive.

  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 866
    edited April 2016
    @Imryll I understand what you're saying, and I agree to a certain extent. What I can't tolerate is the persistent attempt to bring down the company, and downplay the overall work over such reason. The said complaints are as valid as any other complaints. It's how they reacted, how they responded that is wrong here. It's almost like we're dealing with terrorists here threatening to bomb the entire place. It's been more than a "threat" really, bombs were set off early on and still continues as we speak. I'm referring to this "crusade" just to be clear, particularly the undue reviews and downvotes. Have you visited sites like metacritic? "Hating" is just one to describe it.

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