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Beamdog's Official Statement (4-6-2016)

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Comments

  • StoibsStoibs Member Posts: 66
    Well if bending over backward for the sake of the vocal minority will put an end to the stupidity of people flooding the forums in lieu of otherwise regular discussion, then sure, knock yourselves out.
    I literally wasn't even aware that there was some sort of controversy here at all personally until I popped into the forums to ask a question a few days ago and saw everyone raging for some unfathomable reason.
    Minsc talking about the ethics of adventuring is 'Offensive' to some people?
    People are really this opposed to a trans character and are willing to show their bigoted views publicly as such?
    Sure... ok...
    I suppose if the similar non-issue caused these dregs of society to come out of the woodwork for Pillars of eternity and petition for change for something as equally inoffensive, then I shouldn't be too surprised..

    I am reminded that the nursery rhyme 'Ba Ba Black sheep' has also been banned in certain areas and schools too for 'themes of discrimination', as ridiculous as it sounds.
    What a shitty overly PG era we live in... /shakes head at the ridiculousness while I simply enjoy the games without issue or controversy.

    In any case, while changes are being made here why don't you guys also revert the UI's back to the proper ones or at the very least incorporate the fan-made BG1/SoD design into BG2? Just finished Dragonspear and noticed that BG2 still has that ugly Beta build character screen upon importing..
    Ugh.. and I thought I was mostly free from that thing.

    killerrabbitIllustair
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 6,649
    Roseweave said:


    Why do you assume the trans character needs "help" though? and I'm a bit worried as to what this specific item would be.

    Just a belt that can be obtained early in BG from an Ogre with a fetish.

    ButtercheeseDaggerXIV
  • AstromachineAstromachine Member Posts: 2
    deltago said:

    Roseweave said:


    Why do you assume the trans character needs "help" though? and I'm a bit worried as to what this specific item would be.

    Just a belt that can be obtained early in BG from an Ogre with a fetish.
    It would make an interesting side quest to carry it with you from start until you meet the character. Maybe also do something to remove the "cursed" nature of it.

    ButtercheeseEadwyn_G8keeper
  • DabusDabus Member Posts: 27
    Dee said:
    This is an extremely fair response and I applaud Beamdog. The Minsc line is barely offensive but I can see points on both sides for that. Mizhena was a non-issue but glad to hear she at least gets fleshed out.

    jankiel
  • SamySamy Member Posts: 51
    I actually started Dragonspear yesterday, and turns out I have the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity in my inventory because I had it when I beat BG1.

    Having said that, do we know that Mizhena isn't already wearing one? (Or whether she would want to, for that matter.)

    Purudaya
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Mikey205 said:



    Minsc is a character that is very black and white. Adventuring to him is about kicking evil. He doesnt think about whats good and evil as abstract ideas and philosophies but more by instinct and intuition. It didnt sound right from him at all to me. It seems more khalid or jaheira or dynaheir. The reaction generated was absolutely out of proportion though.

    You may view him such, but I do not. He is not emotionally stunted as far as I can tell.

    Remember how he offered Boo to comfort Jaheira after Khalid was found dead? It was maybe misplaced gesture, but it was an act of kindness and empathy.

    Also, I find the notion that he would go beserk on slavers without any inkling what is right or wrong. or why slavery might be wrong, a bit far fetched.

    I feel this "out of character" to be a bit patronizing on our good ol' Minsc.

    Or secondary defense reaction that is bit disingenuous, with an underlying demand that Minsc should stand aloof from any character evolution, or playfulness. Because you are the gatekeeper of his "true" and "good" character.

    I can take it from him, clever or silly one-liners all included... As long as I cannot ever imagine him siding with the bullies. Now THAT would be out for character.

    Purudayamf2112
  • KeiKei Member Posts: 2
    Random gger perspective. Probably not all that welcomed, but what can ya do :wink:

    Just wanted to say thanks for addressing all this in detail, and listening to people's criticisms and complaints. Probably not the easiest thing to do when its coming at you in a chaotic wave like that, but I'd imagine most people are pleased with this outcome.

    Only thing I'd recommend is possibly reviewing your mod logs both on here and steam since there were a number of people getting banned who were not engaging in harassment. Obviously anyone hurling actual abuse should stay gone.

    Best of luck beamdog.

    Dabusrojay
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Foggy said:

    A by the book case of good PR and an announcement were Beamdog took the higher road in responding favorably to its community feedback and addressing some points that stirred the passions, a difficult situation handled in a manner that even some AAA gaming companies failed to do.

    I perso stand supportive of this decision by Beamdog because as a fan I feel i must; if it preempts bleeding hearts that is good - because I can at least take it either way without throwing my toys out of the pram.

    Yet my sentiment, where maybe I am projecting my own gaming standard that does not go ballistic very easily is that the outrage was externally fabricated, and longstanding fans were - and are - behind Beamdog because we love BG and find SoD pretty great in extending our joy.

    If I thought "we gamers" at large would be ill willed enough to sink an enjoyable expansion for some slight irritation or other - I'd be quite devastated, actually.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,063
    Kei said:

    Only thing I'd recommend is possibly reviewing your mod logs both on here and steam since there were a number of people getting banned who were not engaging in harassment. Obviously anyone hurling actual abuse should stay gone.

    Everyone I saw named was fully ban-worthy.

    Probably a by-product of the fact that a lot of the GG folks were coming here from other communities and were not familiar with how things are on these forums. A reasonable mistake, perhaps, but it doesn't mean you get a pass when you're out of order.

    ButtercheeserorikonEadwyn_G8keeper
  • KeiKei Member Posts: 2

    Kei said:

    Only thing I'd recommend is possibly reviewing your mod logs both on here and steam since there were a number of people getting banned who were not engaging in harassment. Obviously anyone hurling actual abuse should stay gone.

    Everyone I saw named was fully ban-worthy.

    Probably a by-product of the fact that a lot of the GG folks were coming here from other communities and were not familiar with how things are on these forums. A reasonable mistake, perhaps, but it doesn't mean you get a pass when you're out of order.
    Meh maybe so. We had a number of your users coming to complain about it on kia though. So I'd imagine its a mixed bag.

    Ratcliff
  • DabusDabus Member Posts: 27
    Kei said:

    Random gger perspective. Probably not all that welcomed, but what can ya do :wink:

    Just wanted to say thanks for addressing all this in detail, and listening to people's criticisms and complaints. Probably not the easiest thing to do when its coming at you in a chaotic wave like that, but I'd imagine most people are pleased with this outcome.

    Only thing I'd recommend is possibly reviewing your mod logs both on here and steam since there were a number of people getting banned who were not engaging in harassment. Obviously anyone hurling actual abuse should stay gone.

    Best of luck beamdog.

    I'm sympathetic to GG as well. Mentioned it prior and everyone's been cool. In fact, as somebody who follows GG some people would be surprised to hear that there are those in GG who are upset over the overreaction and that Beamdog had to make the changes. There are people in GG who were defending Beamdog from the rhetoric and negative reviews over the content. It's sad, in a way, because this is much similar to what happened with Pillars of Eternity where people were made at the supposed transphobic joke that the devs eventually removed. Horseshoe theory and all.

    As I mentioned, I found Mizhena a non-issue and Minsc's line barely offensive. I just hope people can get back to enjoying the game and we eventually see more D&D CRPGs, from Planescape to Spelljammer.

    Hell, if I had one legit complaint about D&D games right now it's the lack of a Planescape sequel or a good Spelljammer game!

    KeibluntfeatherrojayIllustair
  • dockaboomskidockaboomski Member Posts: 435
    Props given for figuring out a solution that doesn't really piss anyone off to an outrageous degree. gj

    RatcliffButtercheese
  • chbrookschbrooks Member Posts: 85
    Samy said:

    I actually started Dragonspear yesterday, and turns out I have the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity in my inventory because I had it when I beat BG1.

    Having said that, do we know that Mizhena isn't already wearing one? (Or whether she would want to, for that matter.)

    If adding to Mizhens is a priority, I'd like to see something done with the girdle as an Easter egg.

    (On a side note, it always bugged me that wearing the girdle doesn't throw the bounty hunters off your trail.)

    Buttercheese
  • Chrono180Chrono180 Member Posts: 2
    edited April 2016
    As someone who was bothered by the lack of development in Mizhena's character, I greatly appreciate Beamdog's willingness to listen to the responce of fans, particularly on such a hot-button topic as this. Rest assured I will keep a close eye on any future releases from the studio and future updates to Mizhena's character.

    prem0nition
  • DizDiz Member Posts: 12
    *sigh*

    You didn't need to remove the line. It was lame writing, but that wasn't the main issue people had. Just tell Amber Scott to not be a dick in the future, or at least do it in private and not in interviews where people will see it. The issue people were having was with the devs, not so much the game per se.

  • DizDiz Member Posts: 12
    Darji said:

    Honestly I would hope they would also apologize for their unprofessionalism regarding this stuff. Calling femfreq, Jezbell etc for help via social media was just really stupid. Same goes for suggesting people giving better reviews.

    This I will agree with though, and it goes back to people having issues with the devs rather than the game. Seeking out people like those was a very, very dumb move and I'm sure you had to know how they would spin these things. This on top of the statements made prior to the backlash is a very bad look on Beamdog and doesn't bode well for getting repeat customers.

  • DorcusDorcus Member Posts: 234
    Nothing possibly remotely good in the future will ever come from that joke staying in the game. Put the master recording on a flash drive, put the flash drive on a rocket, and launch the rocket into the sun.

  • bluntfeatherbluntfeather Member Posts: 61
    Diz said:

    Darji said:

    Honestly I would hope they would also apologize for their unprofessionalism regarding this stuff. Calling femfreq, Jezbell etc for help via social media was just really stupid. Same goes for suggesting people giving better reviews.

    This I will agree with though, and it goes back to people having issues with the devs rather than the game. Seeking out people like those was a very, very dumb move and I'm sure you had to know how they would spin these things. This on top of the statements made prior to the backlash is a very bad look on Beamdog and doesn't bode well for getting repeat customers.

    FYI they already did a page or two back in this very thread.

  • DizDiz Member Posts: 12
    TStael said:

    Diz said:

    *sigh*

    It was lame writing, but that wasn't the main issue people had. Just tell Amber Scott to not be a dick in the future, or at least do it in private and not in interviews where people will see it. .

    I find your comment quite mean-spirited, ad hominem - and citing an individual from relative anonymity. And making bold statements for "people."

    I only put myself forth as an individual, but I do not like you mobbing Amber Scott. She did overall a fine job: I expected less of SoD writing than I received, and love the expansion.
    Who is mobbing her? I'm stating this here, not on her twitter or slinging abuse at her. Maybe "dick" is a strong word to use, but my point is that her choice of words as to how she viewed the series and her thoughts on inclusion came off very poor and were open to possible misinterpretation. That the story was then shopped around to clickbait sites as an issue of harassment and discrimination only dug the hole deeper and only further pushed the idea that an agenda was at play.

    I will say that she has handled this better than some have. As far as I'm aware it was not her personally shopping this story around.

  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 1,739
    Those weren't clickbait websites. Again, that they say things you do not like does not make them insincere or bad.

    GenderNihilismGirdleAyiekie
  • DizDiz Member Posts: 12
    Kotaku, Jezebel and Polygon are absolutely clickbait sites, and you can take one look around deepfreeze.it to confirm that. Their reporting of this boiled down to "gamers rage about trans characters" and "we aren't *saying* that GG is behind it, but yeah GG was probably behind it." While the statements made by devs on this game might have given the appearance of an agenda, those sites absolutely do have a very clear and well defined agenda that cannot be denied.

    Getting them involved was a mistake.

    Flashburn
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Dabus said:



    I'm sympathetic to GG as well. Mentioned it prior and everyone's been cool.

    I like yer style for mentioning it. But you do know from whence it all started? (meaning: if you criticize journalism, how about being source-critical first)

    I am of opinion that GG fanciers have as much right to a great gaming immersion as myself - but if they wish to deprive others of it because some of them do not like a detail, they are not exactly being loyal to gaming.

    But as SoD is actually a pretty good title that attitude will probably find its critics in fullness of time. And rightly so!

  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Foggy said:

    @TStael

    If I thought "we gamers" at large would be ill willed enough to sink an enjoyable expansion for some slight irritation or other - I'd be quite devastated, actually.

    Good good.. but whose "we"?


    Well, us gamers - I hope? Like you and I. :-)

    When it comes to your stated cis jewishness in Eastern Europe, I mainly actually think of tiered pricing.

    I should love gaming to be a more universal enjoyment for those who like it - so when I am pro DRM, it is in context of tiered pricing, and pro-indie.

    Let's face it: if SoD was offered for five Euros in Africa without controls, because it is very hard for non-elites to afford it there otherwise, this would be abused in high-earning countries.

    So if you ask when am I thinking for "us gamers" I am thinking that DRM compatible clients should push for a tiered pricing. It would allow less well earning gamers join us even if they hail from less high GDP nations.

    Is my thinking fine by you?


  • DoomTacoDoomTaco Member Posts: 1
    Perfect, this is exactly what we needed. Regardless of how you feel about the issues that caused the recent shitstorm, I'm sure we can all agree that the Baldur's Gate community was worse off for having become a battleground. Beamdog did what was needed to restore peace and I thank them for it.

    JuliusBorisovKrotos
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