Justify Hexxat with a Paladin Main Char - is possible?
kamuizin
Member Posts: 3,704
So ppl, i'm about to play a paladin Main Char, and i see Hexxat more as an "i do what i have to survive" than a bloodlust bastard that find fun in killing and torturing others.
It's possible to justify her inside a good party with an paladin main char? convertion to good isn't possible, i know, but restrain and caring as a good christian with guilt issues (as i see some paladins) taking for himself the duty of take care of a poor soul bound in vampirism is possible?
It's possible to justify her inside a good party with an paladin main char? convertion to good isn't possible, i know, but restrain and caring as a good christian with guilt issues (as i see some paladins) taking for himself the duty of take care of a poor soul bound in vampirism is possible?
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I said this in another thread, but if you view her more as a victim and see her humanity, and attempt to salvage it, you can justify her presence, but not her actions.
Based on the quests in existence on BG2, Hexxat personal quests, NPC banters, forgotten realms lore and each character biography, there's a way to justify Hexxat presence in the group?
1 - the only person your PC needs to justify their actions to is YOU
2 - this is your fantasy game and part of the fun is developing a remarkable story-line in the back-ground that is appealing and fun, With such a story, you can even justify putting ketchup on a hot-dog (shudder!).
I'm running an Undead Hunter Paladin through BG1 currently and have full intentions of picking up Hexxat.
My rationale?
- Though I cannot save this damned soul, I can help her redeem past transgressions by assisting me in eliminating the current scourge of Bhodi and her ilk.
- Her knowledge of the damned will assist me in my goals. Though some might suggest that a "by any means necessary" is not conducive to a Paladin's m.o. I suggest "the ends justify the means" if innocents are not endangered.
- I'm not her friend, she is a companion.
See how easy that was?
Now go have some fun and stop trying to be a real life Paladin. heh.
m2c
Fun, for me at the moment, is to create a coherent party based on the five elements that i pointed above.
So the question is: There's anything in Hexxat behavior that will put an paladin into a moral dudy of immediatly slay her no matter how open mind he is? That's based on the five stated points, that are Quests of BG2, Hexxat Quests, NPC banters, Forgotten Realms Lore and NPCs biography.
Also - while she's in your party, you can keep your eye on her and make sure she does not cause any mischief.
But if you do rp like that you may need to let her 'go' at the end of her tob quest. It only makes sense.
go for it.
Literature is littered with "the good guys" having to team up with "the bad guys" to defeat the greater evil.
Hexxat a murderer, and she even prefers innocents. How do you justify siding with such a creature when Jan is clearly the better thief and Nalia/Imoen are stronger characters?
Good people work with "evil" people out of necessity, or because they've been forced to choose the lesser of two evils. That's not the case here.
And, no, a paladin would not align with a vampire.
However, from a roleplaying perspective I have to agree with BillyYank.
Please consider these:
- as a player you are metagaming, knowing the alignments of all npcs. In the Realms people aren't running around with an alignment tag. Casting a Know Alignment spell is considered an offensive (potentially hostile) action in AD&D
- Your first involvement with Hexxat would clearly show your character she has been using several women to further her release, knowlingly leading them to death. This seems like a pretty good example of morally questionable behaviour
- A paladin has an innate Detect Evil ability and would certainly recognise Hexxat as such
As I said, If you take Hexxat you are willfully, intentionally choosing to pick a greater evil. Very few excuses exist for that, and I think none of them work for a smart Paladin. Perhaps if you were playing the traditional lawful stupid, arrogant type, then maybe.
Hexxat is clearly meant for an evil party. The most humane/sympathetic paladin in the Realms would meet her, get to know her, and at best give her a chance to clearly seek redemption and immediately stop feeding on innocents, etc.; otherwise the paladin would offer his/her regrets, and slay the creature to put her out of her misery. Given the plots/quests, etc BG2EE offers for Hexxat, only the Lawful Stupidest paladin would allow her to continue her ways.
Kudos to you if you go the way of strict standards for RPing a paladin; there's never been a shortage of lame paladin players who see things through the lense of Chaotic Neutral.
I'm thinking here based on a christian perception with my paladin. He sees a vampire, made not by choice but by circumstances. Her first act was surely evil, but evidently needed for survival.
However... she is evil, and she, herself, don't regret her deeds, based on some good alignment banters with other NPCs she even enjoy her state.
Maybe a ranger could accept her, as valygar can be convinced to not fight her, but a paladin surely not.
An Angel alike vampire (as angel series) could surely be tolerated by an paladin, but i agree with you ppl, hexxat isn't in the same boat of a suffering vampire wailing his/her curse.
Korgan is a bloodthirsty battlerager who revels in killing but he loves Jan's jokes, doesn't harm children and thinks highly of Mazzy. Viconia is outwardly proud and cruel, but every once in a while you see a glimpse of the fallen drow priestess alone in a strange world that she finds both confusing and fascinating. Edwin is quirky. We like quirky. Sarevok cycles between being his old evil tyrant self and being a tortured soul. Dorn, at least, hits like truck so meh (EE token munchkin NPC).
Hexxat? It's hard to think of her as anything but that surly/angsty vampire woman who seems be using some mind control juju to limit your dialogue responses and who likes to murder innocents. It's hard to find some sort of Angel/Angelus (from Buffyverse, as you mentioned) parallel in her. The closest thing you can get to connecting with her is if you romance her, and even then she's rather distant.
And she obviously hate being a vampire.
So yes, definitely, you can take her with you, because you want to help her with her vampire condition, and because she'll harm less with you than without you.
1. Hexxat is an undead creature, and therefore a corruption of all that is good in the world.
2. Hexxat is evil, and delights in taking innocent lives (as evidenced by her disemboweling of Clara in front of you).
3. Hexxat is a thief, and makes it her life's work to delve into tombs and defile the dead to steal their treasure.
A paladin could maybe forgive one or two of those things, but not all three. As a religious warrior, a paladin would take great exception to an unholy creature (vampire) going out to perform unholy acts of graverobbery. You couldn't in good conscience help her in that quest; "the ends justify the means" is directly counter to the classic paladin's oath.
But that being said, Charname isn't technically a member of a paladin order unless you join the Radiant Heart. So I'd say make your own choice, and make it a good one.
However, in line with what diomedes33 said, I have some questions about the relativity of morality. Even if you cannot choose your deity in this edition, your palidin is a champion of a certain creed. But what is that creed? Your paladin knows, thats why he can detect evil. But what to do about evil? The simplest answer is to destroy it wherever encountered.
I'm not sure you can expect a forgotten realms paladin to share your morality. My Cavalier just "cleansed" a certain island from ToSC of a certain ailment. The cleansing was thorough, all were slain, even the baby was dashed on the rocks. I am comfortable with playing this outcome for a lawful good paladin. He doesn't think like me. He has a different view of "good".
I think the only thing that gave him pause was his adherence to lawfulness. On that island they had established their own society with their own laws. I'm reminded of Bronze/Iron Age Mediterranean societies, how when travelling people would often pay homage to local gods. So what law should he obey? The one established where he is? His own?
There's another way the lawfulness of the Paladin might prevent him from his geneocide. Gods have their order existing between them. Gods play patrons to certain societies. Destroying a society upsets the order of the gods, and so a Paladin should avoid that.
I'm not sure any of that justifies Hexaat, though. Either way, good question.
Being born or turned into a creature with potential darkness does not mean you are inherently evil (since you are a paladin and choose not to be evil) - so Hex can also be forgiven for being a vampire -- as long as she is not murdering innocents for blood - have her in your party as a reminder for yourself and the hope that you can also overcome your divine evil blood.
And if you say Hex drinks from innocents thats easy to fix - just ask her to drink from evil creatures instead which are always around - nothing like detect evil to help Hex - point her in the right direction and you get 2 birds for the prince of 1 detect evil - you feed Hex showing her the benefits of selective drinking and you stamp out evil.
She's no Angel vampire (as the crossover buffy serie).
1) All vampires are evil because they have to kill/cause potentially irreparable harm to others to survive. It doesn't matter if you go full blown vigilante mode with your curse - the fact remains that you're doing it not just for "good" reasons, but for personal (selfish) ones. Because who are you to decide whether or not killing/harming others is justified?
For the record, a D&D vampire's method of feeding (energy drain) basically involves the use of negative energy, which means that unlike normal hunting the victim's energy is not returned to nature (part of the reason why druids find undeath abhorrent).
2) It follows from 1) that Hexxat is the way she is because she WANTS to be that way. Vampires as powerful as Hexxat have free will, so she is accountable for her actions (unlike newbie vampires). She feeds on innocents (and not just out of necessity) because for her, it's all business. You can argue that vampirism could have made her that way, but then you can contrast her to someone like Viconia, who is just as old/older. Viconia lost everything because, for a moment, her conscience won out over several centuries worth of "we are evil" drow genetics/propaganda. Do you see her killing innocents for personal gain? Hell, she tried to pull off the whole "normal life" shtick by buying a plot of land somewhere and getting friendly with the neighbors. In return she got beaten up, sexually abused and buried alive. Do you see her acting like an emotionally damaged serial killer/psychopath?
As I said, it might be different if we knew more about Hexxat's character history.
3) This is D&D. Souls exist, and an afterlife is (more or less) guaranteed. If you really want to help a good person who has become a vampire then killing them (to free their souls) is a perfectly acceptable act (and then their souls can fly away to celestia/good guy heaven/wherever). Hell, you can even cast resurrection on them afterwards, "curing" them (similar process for a romanced Anomen/Aerie/Jaheira/Viconia). Hexxat just doesn't want to die, period. I think it's safe to assume that a major part of that is probably because of the not-so-good afterlife waiting for her.