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IWDEE needed the NPCs much more than BG

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  • ChidojuanChidojuan Member Posts: 211
    For those concerned about NPC race, doesn't Icewind Dale limit the variety a bit? Not that it makes it much easier, but a human, a half-elf, a half-Orc and a dwarf seem like the reasonable picks. It's not the most diverse place.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    Not necessarily, as the NPCs could easily be mercenaries who came north for their fortune.
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,266
    @Chidojuan
    I agree, but with "creative rationale", you can justify any race to be in the icy wilderness of the frigid northlands.

    @subtledoctor
    To your point, I have a lot of research to do before I can start asking intelligent questions. @BelgarathMTH was just assisting me with feedback in regards to my ideas about making NPCMods for IWDEE, and that is why he shouted out to you. It is a lot of work, so we will have to see how long my motivation holds out.

    I'm the kind of person who has the most difficult time actually starting something because I feel like I have to know it all before I even start. I want to know how to conquer potential barriers before I encounter them so that I don't lose steam once I get going. That being said, I have a lot of research still to do.

    I know that I am definitely capable of making a mod like this. I do have minor programming knowledge and experience, so I understand IF-THEN, NOT, NOR, OR etc. logic sequencing. But programming and scripting in this game is much less visually apparent than the programming language I am familiar with, and not quite as intuitive for me, so I am still pretty intimidated by the whole process.

    I understand that it takes more determination than knowledge, and that the hardest part is writing and organization. Well written NPCmods are already proving themselves to be much more involved than something like item creation (although I have done zero research on those, so I could be wrong).

    Despite the challenge, I have always wanted to creatively write computer games, ever since I first played IWD when it came out back in the days of yore. Back then, I had never even heard of modding, so hadn't even considered it. As I grew into adulthood, reality hit and I realized I needed something sustainable to support myself and later my family, so I got an education and a job in a field that is in short supply but in extremely high demand.

    Now that I am a little older and wiser, I am interested in making the jump into a new hobby and maybe this could be it.

    @Grum
    Sorry to derail your thread so much.
    BelgarathMTH
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Chidojuan said:

    For those concerned about NPC race, doesn't Icewind Dale limit the variety a bit? Not that it makes it much easier, but a human, a half-elf, a half-Orc and a dwarf seem like the reasonable picks. It's not the most diverse place.

    IWD is limited solely by the Infinity Engine (aka "IE"). In other words, there actually are no limitations on race (potentially), if you use mods. Unfortunately, because of the way that IE works, modders are forced to implement race mods in a non-intuitive way. That said, because all of the mercenaries hired by the town of Easthaven, the PC(s)/NPC(s) can be of any race that exists in the Forgotten Realms, potentially.
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100

    Chidojuan said:

    For those concerned about NPC race, doesn't Icewind Dale limit the variety a bit? Not that it makes it much easier, but a human, a half-elf, a half-Orc and a dwarf seem like the reasonable picks. It's not the most diverse place.

    IWD is limited solely by the Infinity Engine (aka "IE"). In other words, there actually are no limitations on race (potentially), if you use mods. Unfortunately, because of the way that IE works, modders are forced to implement race mods in a non-intuitive way. That said, because all of the mercenaries hired by the town of Easthaven, the PC(s)/NPC(s) can be of any race that exists in the Forgotten Realms, potentially.
    Except tieflings, as iwd2 is about how they couldn't accept peaceful tieflings.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited May 2016
    Grum said:

    Except tieflings, as iwd2 is about how they couldn't accept peaceful tieflings.

    No...The enemies you refer to were NOT tieflings. They were Cambions, aka Half-Fiends. Tieflings =/= Cambions; Tieflings =/= Half-Fiends.
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Cambion
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tieflings
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Isair
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Belhifet
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Chimera

    Also, since you could actually create a tiefling PC in IWD2, your statement doesn't work in that sense either.
    Grum
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100

    Grum said:

    Except tieflings, as iwd2 is about how they couldn't accept peaceful tieflings.

    No...The enemies you refer to were NOT tieflings. They were Cambions, aka Half-Fiends. Tieflings =/= Cambions; Tieflings =/= Half-Fiends.
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Cambion
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tieflings
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Isair
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Belhifet
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Chimera

    Also, since you could actually create a tiefling PC in IWD2, your statement doesn't work in that sense either.
    I stand corrected!
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,266
    So, as promised, I did some research.

    It seemed that the game recognizes CHARNAME as well as PLAYER1. However, if charname dies, then it moves Player2 up to be Charname. You can't even remove whoever the game recognizes as Charname from your party. Interesting.

    Changing player slot position does not change token recognition. So, I can have the 2nd created party member (player2) in slot1 and it still thinks that he's player2 using dialogue tokens.

    However, killing charname moves player2 up to be the new charname. Then you can remove player1 (formerly charname) from your party.

    BUT it seems that player1 stays as player1 if he's dead. The only thing that bumps player2 up to be player1 is if player1 is permanantly dead or removed from the party after he has died (resurrected or not).

    Check out the screenshots. I did a mock dialogue test using tokens player1-player6, gabber, and charname (in that order). I'm using the default party with Gorris as Player1.

    All of them together.


    Player1 at bottom.


    Player1 dead (but not resurrected and then removed from the party)


    Player1 permadead or removed from party after dying.


    In other words, an npc mod could be made using BG2 programming as long as you use Player1. But don't let the protaganist die, unless you want a new Player1 token. There is obviously some flag that is disabled in IWDEE, because the BG2EE engine ends the game when Charname dies. IWDEE just moves player2 to be Charname instead.
    inethBelgarathMTHGrumlolien
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636

    There is obviously some flag that is disabled in IWDEE, because the BG2EE engine ends the game when Charname dies. IWDEE just moves player2 to be Charname instead.

    The IWDNPC Project utilizes this flag, so it does still exist.



  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,266
    @rapsam2003
    Thanks! Yeah, I had figured it still exists. I just am not sure how to utilize it. Ending the game just doesn't fit with the IWD game feel. It always bugged me that the game ended when charname died in bg2. But maybe it is an engine limitation, and I'll just have to warn people to reload.
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