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Has anyone had blanks appear in-game for strings?

chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
Has anyone had this problem: you make some items, make some new dialog.tlk entries, assign them to the items, but in the game they don't appear - they are blanks?

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Comments

  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,021
    What did you make the entries in? If it's DLTCEP I think you might need to copy the dialog.tlk file from your game folder into the 'lang' (language) folder. This is VERY RISKY to do though so make sure you backup the one in the en_US folder first.

    If it's NearInfinity then... I dunno. Things like this is why people always advise you add new entries via WeiDU instead.

    smeagolheart
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    edited July 2016
    chimeric said:

    make some new dialog.tlk entries, assign them to the items,

    I think part of the reason you're not getting many replies is simply because nobody does that, so nobody is very familiar with the issues that may arise form doing that.

    Yes, I know I'm beating a dead horse, but as soon as you get comfortable with Weidu, things will get easier for you, and I want things to be easier for you. :wink:

    PLUS, using Weidu with this stuff is great for testing. Getting cashes with your mod installed? Exit the game, a double-click and a few keystrokes later you have a peistine, unmodded install. Then taker with your mod assts, reinstall the mod, and test some more. Weidu cleans up after itself, so development and testing of mods requires fewer clean game reinstalls.

    Grammarsaladineth
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,012
    edited July 2016
    Break down and stop trying to use dtclep for dialogue.

    NearInfinity is the updated tool, as I said in your other thread. But neither dtclep nor NearInfinity is ideal for what you are trying to do. Weidu is the way to go.

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    But manual editing - through Near Infinity, because DLTCEP is blind to half the resources I have - has to work. There is no reason why it shouldn't work. You add a string, you reference that string. I'm not concerned with making the mod compatible with other machines right now, I'm concerned with making the bloody mod see plain text so I can get something done and move on to the next thing. And I don't need conversations at all right now, which is what Weidu is mostly for. I need some place I can put my item descriptions in so the game can see them. Subtledoctor there suggested a COPY trick, I'm trying that now.

    When I go to the dentist the next time and he asks what's wrong with my teeth, I'll just say "command line interface."

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 924
    If you are editing strings, you should WeiDu (shortened form of Weimer Dialog Utility). It is designed primarily to handle string editing for the dialog.tlk files in the BG games.

    smeagolheart
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,012

    If you are editing strings, you should WeiDu (shortened form of Weimer Dialog Utility). It is designed primarily to handle string editing for the dialog.tlk files in the BG games.

    This.

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    No kidding, Aquadrizzt??!!??? :angry: :lol: You know, the guy who wrote Weidu says he did it that way because he's a Unix lover. Oh god, just kill me. Is there any way to make this "utility" a bit more convenient, at least? Like, if I type one wrong letter, I lose all the code I entered, and it won't even let me paste text?

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,012
    What are you talking about? I use notepad++ which certainly let's you paste text. The weidu plug-ins on Spellhold studios highlight syntax as well.

    mf2112
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    Ok, @subtledoctor , your method with COPY looks like my best shot with descriptions. Conversations don't look that difficult to make, actually, from the tutorial, but I don't need them right now. Just the descriptions. But how do I put all that text into Weidu? The program, if I'm not mistaken, takes dlg files and turns them into d. files or takes d. and turns them dlg. But what if I want it to read a long list of commands like COPY, with spaces, many lines of descriptions for many items and so on? Is there any kind of file I can put all COPY commands I want in and make the "utility" read them? I'm not going to just type all that in the command window by hand.

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163

    What are you talking about? I use notepad++ which certainly let's you paste text. The weidu plug-ins on Spellhold studios highlight syntax as well.

    Okay, I guess now I have to ask how to use Notepad++ with Weidu?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    edited July 2016
    @ Chimeric Whoa, have you been entering Weidu commands by hand? No wonder you hate the CLI. What you want to do, is make a nice simple install script that you can save, and edit, etc.

    Here:

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86011511/test mod.zip

    Unzip this into your game folder, where chitin.key is. The "testmod" folder (one word) and the "setup-testmod.exe" file should be in your game folder.

    Inside the folder, open testmod.tp2 with a good text editor - notepad++ or CONtext, something like that. In the COPY command, enter the name of your .itm file. After the SAY commands, enter your strings. Save the file. Then - actually, wait, I made a mistake. Edit the COPY command to say this:
    COPY ~testmod/files/xyz.itm~ ~override~
    ... replacing "xyz" with your item's filename.

    Now, put the actual item file (the one you made in Near Infinity) into the /testmod/files/ folder.

    Now, double-click "setup-testmod.exe" and answer the simple question ("do you want to install test mod?" or whatever) by clicking 'i' or 'y' and then hit 'enter' to exit the installer.

    Now peek in your override folder: the .itm file is there! Look at it in NI: the strings are there! Use it in-game: it will work.

    And the nice thing is, if there is a problem, you can double-click the .exe file again, uninstall the mod, and your game will revert to a perfect unmodded state. Then you can make changes to the mod, etc. and then install it and test it again.

    Have another item? Just copy the code in the script and change the second COPY command to refer to your second item. Want to add a dialogue from a .d file? Just add
    COMPILE ~testmod/files/xyz.d~
    Et cetera. In this way you can slowly but surely add things to your mod, saving your progress at each step, and you don't have to constantly re-enter everything into the Command Line. :)

    This is why I said earlier, there are two tools with different roles at different steps in the process. You make or alter the files in NI, and then add strings and install stuff with a text editor and Weidu. It becomes a very nice and sensible tick-tock process once you get used to it.

    (When you asked "how do I use a text editor with Weidu?" the answer is, you write your script commands and your strings in the text editor... and you just double-click Weidu! :wink: )

    mf2112
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 924
    You've been command lining for WeiDu?!

    Oh you poor tormented soul.

    You can write entire setup files in your text editor of choice for weidu to use.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    I should also add: you can use that little "testmod" thing as a template, and grow it into a full proper mod. To personalize it, you want to:

    1) change the folder name "testmod" to whatever word you want
    2) change the name of the .tp2 file to the exact same word
    3) change the name of the .exe file to "setup-" plus the exact same word
    4) in the .tp2 file, use find/replace to change every instance of "testmod" to that exact same word

    mf2112Mr2150lolien
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    OK - from a next steps perspective...

    It sounds like the first thing you need to do is delete your current install. Yes, you may lose some work but it sounds like you have seriously corrupted things if you are missing strings elsewhere now and BGEE is crashing a lot.

    So uninstall, then check your game folder, delete any fragments or remaining items, reinstall then start with a nice clean install.

    Then follow the great advice from the guys in this thread...

    smeagolheartmf2112
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,012
    should just have to empty override folder, but yeah reinstall wouldn't hurt

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    A reinstall may be a good idea. I think my most recent saved games got corrupted, though. Not from modding, just some bug. Older saves work.

    To @subtledoctor and everybody who wrote about the code: thanks, I'll read it all tomorrow. Too tired today. Hey, will somebody please try to use these two wav files for an ambient somewhere? I'd appreciate it and put you in the credits when something gets done. Just stick them somewhere and see if they actually play. I have no clue why, but I put them in place with NI and they crashed my game.

    http://www.megafileupload.com/blbW/Ambient.rar

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    edited July 2016
    All right, I followed the instructions for Notepad++ and tp2. Replaced xyz.itm with another file, saved it. But the setup file doesn't want to see the changes, it's still trying to install xyz.itm. It's like I didn't save the changes - but I checked and there they are. What gives?

    Post edited by chimeric on
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    Okay, got it. Setup uses the tp2 in the game folder unless there is a tp2 in the resource folder. Had to delete that one.

    Mr2150Grammarsaladmf2112lolien
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    Thanks to everyone for the instructions. I'm very slowly getting the hang of it. Where can I get the complete version of command explanations? The Weidu documentation doesn't explain the SAY command, for example, vis-a-vis things other than dialogues and item descriptions. Now I need a spell description. How do I put that in through Weidu? Also, curiously, any kind of error mid-installation forces Weidu to roll everything back, even the successfully installed bits. Can I bypass that somehow?

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,012
    http://www.weidu.org/~thebigg/README-WeiDU.html

    There's a lot of examples and explanations for commands here

    lolien
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    Been there, doesn't have it.

    A couple more questions while I'm at it: 1) what are "ticks" in spell duration? 2) what is absolute duration? 3) is it possible to have more than one creature with the same filename and the same .cre extension (e.g. by drawing on a resource in another folder?)

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    edited July 2016
    chimeric said:

    Been there, doesn't have it.

    Curiously, that's true. But, it is a very very rare example. Basically what you need to learn Weidu is that document, and Google. There is not some magical crystal clear documentation out there. It is a labor of love, built to hex edit game resources in a game that was never meant to be modded, and it has been developed and altered by various people over ~15 years. Documentation-wise, you want to lower your expectations.

    That said, you have not yet done the most important and obvious thing: look in other mods and see how they do things. Especially ones that are small in focus and/or have lots of comments in their code.

    Specifically, as to SAY, it is super-simple and you only need to know this: the SAY command is a 'patch' command (i.e. it happens within a COPY or similar 'action' operation). It writes new strings to the offsets of .itm, .spl, .cre, and similar files that correspond to names and descriptions.

    For items, each one has a name and description for when the item is not identified, and a name and description for after it is identified. You'll use SAY up to four times for an item:
    COPY ~mymod/items/newitem.itm~ ~override~
    SAY NAME1 ~generic unidentified item name~
    SAY NAME2 ~identified item name~
    SAY UNIDENTIFIED_DESC ~generic description~
    SAY IDENTIFIED DESC ~identified, specific description~
    Spells are simpler, because there is no need to identify spells. So you just need:
    COPY ~mymod/spells/newspell.spl~ ~override~
    SAY NAME1 ~spell name~
    SAY UNIDENTIFIED_DESC ~longer spell name & description~
    If you want, you can also use this to alter strings for existing stuff, instead of just for your new stuff:
    COPY_EXISTING ~spwi101.spl~ ~override~
    SAY NAME1 ~new name for Grease~
    SAY UNIDENTIFIED_DESC ~new description for Grease~
    chimeric said:

    any kind of error mid-installation forces Weidu to roll everything back, even the successfully installed bits. Can I bypass that somehow?

    I think not. I hope not! That behavior is a Good Thing. What advantage would there be for having half a mod installed into the game, while the other half errors out? That's just asking for glitches at best, crashes more likely.
    chimeric said:

    1) what are "ticks" in spell duration?

    I *think* only used for bard songs. I'm not sure how it actually works. Basically this is probably one of those things where, if its utility is not clear, it's probably best to just leave it alone.

    EDIT - here is an explanation... but I still don't understand how to use it with effects.
    http://gibberlings3.net/iesdp/appendices/timers.htm
    chimeric said:

    2) what is absolute duration?

    Ditto.
    chimeric said:

    3) is it possible to have more than one creature with the same filename and the same .cre extension (e.g. by drawing on a resource in another folder?)

    In your mod folders? Sure - i do this with stuff like game checks to install one version of a file into BG2, and a different version into IWD.

    In the game? No, each filename has to be distinct.

    By the way, that why, if you're going to do any modding, you should claim yourself a "modding prefix" that is not already claimed here (wait ten seconds, then click "proceed" at the top of the page for the stupid ad for the BG ripoff game :tongue: ). You can register your prefix here. (Ditto.)

    These games are made with old, old, old tech, and each file can only be 8 letters long. Every single file your mod installs into the game should start with your modder prefix, giving you 6 characters to work with. That way modders don't step on each others toes.

    mf2112Ravenslightineth
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    I thought about the prefixes, but they make it harder for me to remember what's what. I think I'll avoid toes by just giving individual names to all of the items, spells etc. If I call something LMDSS.spl, others aren't likely to take up this one, especially if they have a prefix for all of theirs.

    I have looked at some mods, I just don't know any that introduce new spells outside of the tlk.

    With filenames I meant this: suppose I want to have several versions of an NPC, say Edwin. Edwin in his early years, in his later years and so on. Scripts probably refer to EDWIN.CRE, so if I make copies with different file names, various banters etc. won't trigger. But if I could make more EDWIN.CRE files in other folders and instruct the game to replace this one... No?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    edited July 2016
    chimeric said:

    I thought about the prefixes, but they make it harder for me to remember what's what. I think I'll avoid toes by just giving individual names to all of the items, spells etc. If I call something LMDSS.spl, others aren't likely to take up this one, especially if they have a prefix for all of theirs.

    Dude - don't be that guy who thinks he should get to be the only free rider.

    Funny thing is, I actually have a file in my mod called d5_lmdss.spl... my prefix is "d5" - so what would happen if I decided to follow your example and stop using a prefix? For that matter, what about the person whose prefix is "LM?" Is that guy not supposed to make a file called DSS.spl and attach his prefix to it? How could he possibly know another mod (yours) is already using that filename? He has been a responsible citizen and posted up on that website that other modders can expect any filename starting with "lm" to already be in use. You don't think you should show other modders the same consideration?
    chimeric said:

    With filenames I meant this: suppose I want to have several versions of an NPC, say Edwin. Edwin in his early years, in his later years and so on. Scripts probably refer to EDWIN.CRE, so if I make copies with different file names, various banters etc. won't trigger. But if I could make more EDWIN.CRE files in other folders and instruct the game to replace this one... No?

    No that's not possible AFAIK.

    mf2112smeagolheartjoluv
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    edited July 2016


    Dude - don't be that guy who thinks he should get to be the only free rider.

    Funny thing is, I actually have a file in my mod called d5_lmdss.spl... my prefix is "d5" - so what would happen if I decided to follow your example and stop using a prefix? For that matter, what about the person whose prefix is "LM?" Is that guy not supposed to make a file called DSS.spl and attach his prefix to it? How could he possibly know another mod (yours) is already using that filename? He has been a responsible citizen and posted up on that website that other modders can expect any filename starting with "lm" to already be in use. You don't think you should show other modders the same consideration?

    Because that's not my idea. Prefixes are just something someone came up with, thinking it would be convenient. Well, it isn't convenient for me. In the unlikely case someone does make a spell called LMDSS, we'll sort it out with the guy. I'm under no obligation to make the world a better place. And I have reasons for calling the spell just that. It stands for Leomund's Secure Shelter. Are you making the same spell? If not, my reasons for the name are better than yours.

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    This is distilled that guyism.

    smeagolheartAstroBryGuysubtledoctor
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    edited July 2016
    I doubt many people here would use such a mod given the likelihood of it breaking someone else's mod. I personally wouldn't, but I guess you can find out if you like.

    Also, the system was not devised for convenience, but interoperability and cooperation. People here cooperate with each other in a friendly fashion.

    Mr2150smeagolheartAstroBryGuyjoluv
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    And it really is no extra effort to name it xxLMDSS now, or whatever prefix you have, to avoid time, effort and unnecessary hassle later. A community lives and dies on working together, agreeing standards and helping each other.

    mf2112smeagolheartjoluv
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    edited July 2016
    The reasoning behind the prefixes thing is about as convincing as traffic rules. Most people in "civilized" countries think traffic rules are a great thing - until they've been to some place like India where neither drivers nor pedestrians follow them and everyone gets around just fine. I'm not doing that, and the chance of anything going wrong is slim. But if we talked to each other about what mods we are preparing, which I'm not really seeing on this site, we would be better off in more significant ways. If he already has Leomund's Secure Shelter spell, I'm probably not going to make another one. If I knew, then there would be no LMDSS.spl in my mod, and we would all happily go do something else.
    Mr2150 said:

    And it really is no extra effort to name it xxLMDSS now, or whatever prefix you have, to avoid time, effort and unnecessary hassle later. A community lives and dies on working together, agreeing standards and helping each other.

    You don't know what's effort for me and what isn't, so don't presume. Sorting through page after of page of small-font gibberish file names, flags, Weidu and all that nonsense just so I can get a little story out IS an effort for me, even without prefixes - more effort than changing a couple of names later would be, in the unlikely case it had to happen.

This discussion has been closed.