[Minor spoilers] Define cheese
Alonso
Member Posts: 806
I recently started playing Legacy of Bhaal in BG2, and I'm reading more comments about cheese in the LoB threads than I've read in any other thread. One comment in particular grabbed my attention:
On the other hand, I'm not sure if you can consider cheese using the imbalances of the game. Many people say the Robe of Vecna is overpowered, and they're probably right. Yet you can get it even at level 8, and if it is there, ready to be bought, it means that's what the game designers intended.
So what's your definition of cheese?
Note: I decided to start using LoB when I was already in Spellhold, and since I didn't feel like starting the game again, I found a way to swith to LoB difficulty in the middle of the game. Of course, that means that my current view of LoB (and the possible requirement of using cheese to beat it) is different than other's.
I'm enjoying so much LoB so far, but I don't like that idea at all. For me cheese is a no, no. If I need cheese to do it, it means I'm doing it wrong. But I guess that depends on your definition of cheese. For me cheese means you get an advantage which is unrealistic within the context of the fantasy, exploits the shortcomings of the game and/or is clearly not the way the game is meant to be played. Typical examples would be luring enemies from a group so you can take them one at a time. Or running away when the mages cast their buffs and coming back when the duration of their buffs has ended.Stargazer5781 said:It's not that the game encourages cheese now - it's that cheese is a minimum requirement, and you have to come up with strategies in addition to the cheese.
On the other hand, I'm not sure if you can consider cheese using the imbalances of the game. Many people say the Robe of Vecna is overpowered, and they're probably right. Yet you can get it even at level 8, and if it is there, ready to be bought, it means that's what the game designers intended.
So what's your definition of cheese?
Note: I decided to start using LoB when I was already in Spellhold, and since I didn't feel like starting the game again, I found a way to swith to LoB difficulty in the middle of the game. Of course, that means that my current view of LoB (and the possible requirement of using cheese to beat it) is different than other's.
0
Comments
food derived from milk that is produced in a wide range of flavors, textures, and forms by coagulation of the milk protein casein. It comprises proteins and fat from milk, usually the milk of cows, buffalo, goats, or sheep. During production, the milk is usually acidified, and adding the enzyme rennet causes coagulation. The solids are separated and pressed into final form.[1] Some cheeses have molds on the rind or throughout. Most cheeses melt at cooking temperature.
Cheese is anything from Scorcher bomb to using weapons with effects other than damage on them - that's about the range of things I've seen called "cheese" in this game.
Any definition would end up either subjective or so vague you don't need to bother coming up with it.
No, seriously, I guess you guys are right. Actually, this reminds me a bit of the time when I was new to the forums and I asked about the right party balance. The best party balance is the balance you enjoy playing most, and the correct definition of cheese is the definition that fits your playstyle best.
Even disregarding that this is a single-player game where nothing you do has any impact on other people playing it, "cheese" has always been difficult to pinpoint even in multiplayer games. Look at games like StarCraft (where the term originated) and you'll find lots of arguing about what is and isn't cheese, really.
I regard cheese as part of the learning curve:
Stage one: Get backside kicked in a quest.
Stage two: Use any means whatsoever to complete the quest - and find out what I'm actually up against.
Stage three: Try to complete the same quest without using any exploits or items that felt like cheating to me at the time.
In other words, I use 'cheesy stuff' as a crutch or learning aid to help me get up to the next level of gameplay.
P.S. In my opinion, on a first run through, playing without a walkthrough or any sort of pre-knowledge, there is no such thing as cheese - anything that get's me out alive is OK by me.
Of course using a walkthrough the first time you play the game is a different variety of cheese altogether.
Not that I haven't done so myself. Sometimes they just deserve it, I don't care what anyone says.