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Apple Store version update?

atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
Version 2.0 has been out for 46 days now, update 2.1 for 31 days, yet the Apple Store is still offering nothing beyond version 1.3 of BGII for Mac OS (which means updates are not available to those of us for those of us who purchased it through the Apple store).

According to appreviewtimes, the average review time is now about 1 day, and has been under 2.5 days since the release, but of course that's an average and we all know that there can be delays. However, we also know that in the past, not all patches have been submitted at all.

Beamdog: Has the latest update been submitted to the Apple Store? Do you have any idea when the newest version will be available to those of us who bought it that way?

FinnTheHuman
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Comments

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    I'm interested to know this too.

    atakdogFinnTheHuman
  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    edited May 2016
    I suppose no response no it wasn't submiitted, but given Beamdog's history (Apple Store users went 13 months without an update when Beamdog didn't submit 1.2.2033 for Apple's approval) it doesn't look good.

    2.2 is out now (and has been for a week). Apple Store approvals are still at one day. The Apple Store version is still at 1.3, and that means Beamdog is charging money (if anyone buys the game anew from the Apple Store) for a version that's three updates behind. Beamdog, are you ever going to make these updates available to us, or if not, are you going to stop offering an out-of-date game on that platform?

  • muah_dhimmmuah_dhimm Member Posts: 3
    I am curious about an update as well. And a fix for Saemon Havarian not appearing at the docks of Brynnlaw. Looking forward for an update – even a paid one.

    atakdog
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 493
    They are probably trying to find a way to make the combined BGEE/SoD install come in under the App Store's 4GB size limit. Due to WoTC licensing constraints, SoD is only permitted as a DLC for BGEE.

    The mobile market is important to them. They'll get it sorted.

    jackjackmashedtatersmf2112
  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    edited May 2016
    bleusteel said:

    The mobile market is important to them. They'll get it sorted.

    Possibly, but unrelated to my point, which wasn't about the mobile application; I'm asking about the Mac OS (i.e., desktop/laptop Mac) version.

    Regarding your other point: Again, maybe, but as someone who waited more than a year once already I'm concerned that once again they simply didn't bother going through Apple's vetting process at all. I don't know this but the company's continuing silence on the matter is hard to square with their having a definite, user-friendly plan.

  • LaucianNailorLaucianNailor Member Posts: 22
    The damning part of all of this is that the Mac version has already been patched and released (Beamdog's own store, GoG).....but not to those who gave Beamdog their money via the App Store. We apparently are worse than 2nd class purchasers, which stinks as an example of how to communicate and treat customers.

    lunaratakdog
  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    edited May 2016
    Yes, @LaucianNailor, that's true; that's also what happened with 1.2.2033, which was completed and available on Beamdog's store and elsewhere, but, according to Dee's posting here on this forum, never submitted to the Apple Store; that lasted for 13 months, until the release of 1.3.

    Post edited by atakdog on
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,581
    Apple :D:

    Kneel before the glorious Android-gaming Master Race B)
    Oh wait we are still stuck in 1.3 and desperately waiting for an update...

    @Dee I'm sure we could all use some communication on the matter, and I'd rather know I'll have to wait for another month than not knowing at all.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    To my knowledge, nothing has been submitted to Apple yet; we're waiting until we have a build that's stable before starting the approval process, and there may also be some additional work that needs doing with regard to the expansion (the Mac App Store does DLC differently from Steam, GOG, and Beamdog). I know it can be frustrating to wait, especially when there's not much news to report. Just know that when the update does get there, it will have the benefit of all the updates for the other retailers built in.

    JuliusBorisovmf2112
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    edited May 2016
    Cerevant made this observation in a post in mid-April, in the middle of this page:
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/54869/general-bug-discussion/p2
    (I don't know how to link a specific post)
    Cerevant said:

    Mac App Store will get 2.0 & Siege along with iOS and Android. We have implementation to do on that front.

    There are specifically no public timetables yet for when the iOS and android updates will happen, no hint on whether they will occur before or after the PC/Mac versions of Icewind Dale EE are updated, but we were advised that progress on the the next patch is available at:

    http://redmine.beamdog.com/projects/external-bugs/roadmap

    When asked about timetables, they very specifically refused to give any hint of a timetable so that there can be no accusation of failing to meet it if the hint proves to be inaccurate. Specifically, they would not even hint whether we should expect another 15 month delay like for the 1.2.2033 patch, so that we do not complain loudly that they failed to deliver on a 15 month not-a-promise. So my reading is don't get your hopes up for a patch any time soon. Luckily, the El Capitan crashing bug can still be worked around by disabling sound, so we just hope that no new issues arise when nextOS ships later this year.

    I also note that it took several submissions (and a further 10 weeks) to get the last patch through the App Store as Apple seem happy to reject on the first issue found, rather than give a run-down of all possible reasons to reject. Last time, were jumping through at least 2 OS updates since the previous release, and that may well be similar this time around as well, unless you anticipate a patch before September (traditional OS X update timeframe.)

    The company has priorities, we are clearly not one of them, although we will get a delivery in the end, so I have learned the best thing to do is relax, and wait for a good release. 1.3 is in a pretty usable state - it would have been worse (for me) to be stuck on 2.0 for another 15 months or so; in fact, we should get a pretty mature product when the patch arrives as everyone else has beaten the issue to death before it gets to us. The hard part is ducking SoD spoilers in the meantime, as they will start to lead beyond the SoD forum.

    [Edit] To put the delay in perspective, we are still at least 2 weeks short of the delay between releasing the 1.3 patch to the world, and it landing on the Mac App store. My only real concern at the moment is the total lack of hint of a timetable on when the first submission TO the app store might happen.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,444

    yadda yadda ...

    The hard part is ducking SoD spoilers in the meantime, as they will start to lead beyond the SoD forum.

    That must be the most depressing post I've seen on these boards. I wanna play SoD dammit!!

    mashedtaters
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,211
    It doesn't help that the AppStore is one of the most poorly implemented online markets ever.
    Then Apple has the nerve to tell every other developer that they're not good enough to sell on their AppStore without special this and special that implemented first.
    Plus, those nasty AppStore reviews that are terribly implemented can totally ruin a good game, or even falsely promote a crappy game.
    Beamdog is smart to keep their mouth shut about the projected release date and to try to work out the bugs beforehand, otherwise the customers would destroy Beamdog's market. I myself didn't buy the game on iPhone until recently because I still see all those reviews for the disappearing sidebars bug which, by the way, is FIXED...I didn't find this out until I specifically asked a forum member here.
    But writing a review that the bug is fixed doesn't do anything, because AppStore reviews are not sorted chronologically, or reverse chronologically, or any way that makes sense. For some reason, a bunch of those bad and currently inaccurate reviews are just on top of a long list of good reviews.
    Apple customers can be unforgiving, ruthless, nitpicky, childish, and stupid (I can say that, because I am one). I believe Beamdog is playing "the game" the only way that is both feasible and beneficial to the success of a small company's market strategy.
    I honestly hate my iPhone sometimes. If it wasn't for all the money I inanely and ignorantly poured into the AppStore when I first got my iPhone, I would probably switch to Android.

  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    edited June 2016
    @mashedtaters Somehow, developers have managed to get about 1.5 million apps through the vetting process, which as I said above is averaging about one day right now; that Beamdog has such trouble with it while so many others manage fine doesn't exactly speak well for your thesis that they are acting "the only way that is... feasible" when so many others manage to do it a different way: Just go through the approval process and give customers there what they paid for.

    I would hope that Beamdog has learned a lesson and will not be offering future games on the Apple Store, as they seem to have trouble keeping a functioning product up on that forum (or don't care enough to bother), but they still have an obligation to the customers whose money they've already accepted after offering the game there in the first place.

    Post edited by atakdog on
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,211
    @atakdog
    I have no wish to argue with you. I will simply say that I disagree with everything you have said.

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    You imply that 1.3 is not functional.
    Well, other people want their 1.3 back, so on average, we are fine. If somehow, the Apple approval process would be faster and we submit every patch, then there would be other problems, like modded versions need a reinstall of mods. If we don't publish ANY versions, then that would be another problem.

    mashedtatersPekingduckmanmf2112
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited June 2016
    atakdog said:

    @mashedtaters Somehow, developers have managed to get about 1.5 million apps through the vetting process, which as I said above is averaging about one day right now; that Beamdog has such trouble with it while so many others manage fine doesn't exactly speak well for your thesis that they are acting "the only way that is... feasible"

    Quit operating on the premise that all of those developers have 1) the same type of business model as Beamdog; 2) are publishing mobile ports of PC games; and 3) have to deal with the same legal crap as Beamdog.

    Honestly, statements like "Somehow, developers have managed to get about 1.5 million apps through the vetting process" are meaningless. Also, as someone who has actually had to wait for an app to get through the vetting process, I can say that it's not a simple process. You don't just go, "Ok, all the requirements for Apple are done", submit the App, and wait a day. You wait 2 or more weeks. An average of 1app being approved per day doesn't mean a whole lot in reality. The Apple app approval process is still the slowest, most unfriendly app store process in existence. It's like, in this area, Apple refuses to realize there are better ways to do things in 2016, with the technology that exists.
    Contrast this system to the Android system, Google Playstore. You put your App on the store, and it's done. No extra BS.

    mashedtatersPekingduckman
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,444
    No, actually, the average wait turnaround time per app is down to something like 1.95 days. At least according to be recent survey. Apple is supposedly doing much better.

    But that doesn't mean Beamdog is at fault here. Even if the turnaround time is small for the average app, these games are FAR more complex than the average app. And it's not just "email the code, wait 1.95 days, the app is in the store." There's a lot of prep, and presumably a fair amount of back-and-forth. V2 is obviously a moving target; we're about to have the 4th update in under 6 weeks. It's perfectly reasonable for Beamdog to wait a few more weeks until the game itself has reached a pretty stable state, and then jus deal with the App Store once, rather than dealing with the App Store 4 or 6 or 8 times in quick succession.

    I know I've been complaining that v2/SoD isn't available to me on my iPad yet, but my being impatient doesn't mean anyone us actually doing anything wrong.

    (And if waiting an extra month means we can get mods onto the unjailbroken ipad... then I'm happy to wait. m)

    mashedtatersPekingduckmanGreenWarlockFinnTheHuman
  • FinnTheHumanFinnTheHuman Member Posts: 404

    (And if waiting an extra month means we can get mods onto the unjailbroken ipad... then I'm happy to wait. m)

    What's this? Where can I learn more?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,444
    edited June 2016
    @FinnTheHuman All I know is: you know how the Steam and GOG versions of SoD come with that "sod-dlc.zip" file with its own .bif and .key and .tlk files that are added to the base game's files and break Weidu? And caused so many complaints?

    Well, if everything works out, and the stars align and Apple doesn't nix the idea, it may eventually be possible to package up mod content into a .zip file like that, and add it to the game by email or something (just like how you can send save games from BGEE to BG2EE) with no need for jailbreaking.

    Maybe. If the stars align. And maybe it won't happen. But as a technical matter, it's something that could be enabled by the hated "dlc.zip" functionality.

    EDIT - you would use something like this tool to create the "dlc" and then load it into the game.
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/59766/mod-dlc-builder-for-enhanced-edition-v2-x-games#latest

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    WowoFinnTheHuman
  • LaucianNailorLaucianNailor Member Posts: 22
    Another 2 months goes by........the elephant is still clearly visible in the room.......and no update or comment on getting the already updated Mac client (NOT IoS) into the Mac store :*

    atakdogJDow
  • LaucianNailorLaucianNailor Member Posts: 22
    So TrentOster I see you commented about the tablet versions, but what's the story about the Mac version that has already been updated a number of times? It done, available but you still refuse to make the effort to push availability through the Mac App Store.

    Why don't you just do the decent thing and 'swap put' our Mac App Store versions for either a Steam, GoG or Beamdog version so we can actually move on from 1.3? ;)

    atakdog
  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    Six months now. "We're taking our time" is certainly true. Interesting that your judgment that the 1.3 version was solid doesn't seem to take into account that OS updates in the interim have made that game's experience considerably less solid — in other words, the game doesn't work any more for those of us running the latest Mac OS. Is submitting to the Apple Store really such a traumatic thing that, unlike most other software developers, you're only capable of doing it every couple of years rather than for every update? And does it bother you at all that those of us who bought the game through that platform have been stuck with something that doesn't work ever since we upgraded to the latest OS, while you've had a version does work available for several months?

  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    What are the problems with BG EE series on macOS Sierra? I have not upgraded the mac I have most of my BG saves on yet, but upgraded my fall-back mac, and everything seemed to run fine for my quick tests. I have certainly not spent any time in the game though, nor seen any other reports of Sierra specific issues on these fora though?

  • LaucianNailorLaucianNailor Member Posts: 22
    edited October 2016
    Look Trent, why don't you do the decent thing as a company and 'give/provide' those of us who purchased your product through the Apple Mac store a Steam or Beamdog version so at the least we can decide for ourselves whether the 1.3 is the better option or if in fact we wish to update to the latest (4 newer versions) you have published since you updated our platform version?

    atakdog
  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    edited October 2016
    @GreenWarlock My installation started crashing immediately after one of the Yosemite upgrades. I don't remember the specifics any more as I gave up playing, but it was happening often enough that, well, I gave up playing.

    I don't have Sierra yet.

  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    @atakdog I know there is a problem with El Capitan (that is indirectly my fault...) but did not think it was affecting Yosemite. Does this help at all?

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/685804#Comment_685804

    JuliusBorisovmf2112
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