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Specialists... (SOLVED, I hope)

MeaninglessMeaningless Member Posts: 51
edited October 2016 in General Modding
So here we are in Chapter 965484 of trying to mess around with Specialist Mages! (Since everybody and their grandma has already run into issues while modding Specialists.)


This is a screenshot from EE 2.3: https://s18.postimg.org/f8s2y3g4p/Baldr002.jpg

To be frank, I don't even know if what says in the description actually works, didn't find a quick/sure way to verify.

I tried casting some spells with a specialist and a regular mage, but the log doesn't show squat. Tried looking at my CHARNAME cre in Near Infinity, again nothing. This means the task falls to people smarter and more resourceful than me, which resumes to a lot of users in this forum LOL :)

But assuming the description of Specialists is accurate and does what it says...

I'm trying to mess around with the saving throws scheme, to be more specific, I would need to know that if by changing a spell to use a different save (for example instead of spells, to save death/wand/poly or breath), this change is automatically accounted or completely ignored by the singular bonuses/penalties that Specialist apply to their selected school of magic.

For mods that introduce/change many spells this is likely sensitive and important info.

It would also be interesting to know how Specialists accomplish the specific penalty (when casting offensive) and bonus (when resisting) that they apply to their school of magic.

So to find clues and investigate this case I summon ye!

Err... help me if you guys(and gals??) can spare some time or are interested in the matter :DD

PS: Also made the same topic at SHS before posting here: http://www.shsforums.net/topic/58822-specialists/

Post edited by Meaningless on

Comments

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,811
    to be perfectly honest, that penalty to the saves thing, I don't think its implemented even though they say it is, like you, I couldn't find it anywhere in NI and im pretty sure it would be in the 2da files somewhere, and even during gameplay, it doesn't seem to me that specialist mages casting spells from their school is more potent than other spells

    now I could be completely wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if it actually doesn't work

  • MeaninglessMeaningless Member Posts: 51
    edited October 2016
    The scribe chance for scrolls is possible to verify if we raise the INT chance to 100% and try scribing for the schools that supposedly have -15% penalty, until it fails scribing.

    As Mike1072 linked in the other thread, there was an older discussion pointing the savings were never implemented: http://forums.pocketplane.net/index.php?topic=25654.0

    But since the description is new and from EE, I don't think they would lie right to our faces. Thats why we may need a DEV to clarify if this works or not (or at their to-do list), and how it affects modified or new spells from each school.

    It would be cool if it works and likely easier to mod/edit around if it doesn't, so I've mixed feelings.
    Ultimately its better if it works, so long as the method can remain fully functional for newly introduced or changed spells.

    Post edited by Meaningless on
    sarevok57
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Meaninglesssemiticgoddess
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,025
    @Meaningless

    For example, you change the Chaos spell to have a -2 save vs Death. This way, enchanters will cast it at -4 vs Death.

    So, if you change a spell to use a different save (for example instead of spells, to save death/wand/poly or breath), this change will be taken into account by the singular bonuses/penalties that Specialist apply to their selected school of magic.

    Meaningless
  • MeaninglessMeaningless Member Posts: 51
    edited October 2016
    Okay!

    So I just tested in the following manner: BG2 Irenicus dungeon start, CHARNAME illusionist, Imoen normal mage, Minsc with a weapon that sets all saves to zero.

    Results after roughly a 100 casts:
    illusionist successfully casted Blindness on Minsc a few times, from memory and from scroll, it also did hit after I changed to Save vs Death.
    Imoen didn't hit a single time.

    After changing Blindness to Abjuration, the illusionist didn't hit a single time after roughly 50-60 casts, at which point I lost patience LOL.

    Apparently it works flawlessly and automatically reflects changes made to each spell, so long its tagged within the proper school.

    Its just a bit sad that its hardcoded and we cant reproduce or create effects with this... for example a HLA giving Specialists further -1/+1 or for Fighters getting extra +2 resistance for X school, or even attaching such effects to items would be awesome!

    JuliusBorisovAasimGrammarsaladsemiticgoddess
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    MeaninglessGrammarsaladsemiticgoddess
  • MeaninglessMeaningless Member Posts: 51
    Thats great doc! I'll bother you with the specifics sometime k, since I can be very dumb to understand and reverse-engineer some stuff to find out how it works.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Meaningless
  • As far as I understand the implemented saving throw bonus/penalty ist confirmed for bg ee...

    But what about ice wind ee? In the character creating menu only the saving throw bonus ist mentioned, not the penalty though

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,833
    @subtledoctor: Speaking of modding specialist mages, is there a user-friendly way to add or edit a mage kit?

    I have a Transmuter/Illusionist kit, but it doesn't work the same way as other kits. Instead of using the CLAB file and so forth, I apply a custom spell via a potion the player can add with the console, and that spell grants the full list of abilities. That's how I got around the normal problem with modding specialist mage kits. The only thing I can't do is grant level-based bonuses--that is, I can give it 50% acid resistance, but not 10% acid resistance per level, since the spell from the potion only applies once.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,025
    @TheOrderOfTheStick Specialist mages' saving throws bonuses/penalties had always been in the game code, it's just that we didn't have an official confirmation about their actual influence till last year.

    So in BGEE and IWDEE specialist mages cast spells of their school with a +2 saving throw bonus and when an enemy specialist mage casts a spell of her school, your characters (who are not specialist mages of the same scholl as the enemy) get a -2 penalty against it.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,019
    The Enhanced Engine v2.0+ allows you to add new Mage kits that will appear during character creation.

    lolien
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