of course, if there really is something in the rulebooks about spellcasters seeing their spell areas, prove me wrong.
Why don't you prove me wrong?
Not rulebook but Faerun's canon books - Drizzt series. First surface expedition. Why wizards did not go? Cause of fireball accidents that none of experienced drow wizard believed to be an accidents 'cause it was impossible to make mistale like that NOT on a purpose. Not ruebook but BG:EE materials - Neera's plot, about burning her fellows due to being wild mage, not a normal one. I pointed both already. Anything to counter it?..
AD&D 2nd Edition - Th Complete Wizard's Handbook: "Spells that are cast over a general area can be cast by wizards with impaired vision, although their effects may not be as precise as they would be if the wizard could see. For instance, a wizard with impaired vision could cast flaming sphere in front of himself and direct it to move straight ahead toward an area where he hears a group of screeching goblins. But if the goblins scatter at the approach of the flaming sphere, the wizard will not be able to accurately direct its movement to run them down." Seems to me that wizzie without impaired vision should be able to cast over a general area with precision of single goblin (one square, one small creature).
If you'll try tou counter any of that 3 sources with good, sourced counter-arguments I'll try to get access to more sourcebooks and Faerun material. For now - it still seems to me my wizard can cast accurately. 3 sources saying accidental friendly fires with area spells are not (normally) happening, 0 for them to happen. 1 saying it's about seeing what are you doing (Complete Wizard's handbook), 0 against.
From Player's handbook "The caster must be able to see the point of explosion and the intervening distance." states clearly it's about sight, but does not state clearly what needs to be in area seen by caster. Words "intervening distance" does not appear in the Magic chapter ever again.
I think we have a different understanding of the word "see", oddly enough. see as in visually experience
I never doubted that the spell area could be customized! don't ignore what I say or there can be no discussion
don't ignore what I say or there can be no discussion
You mean you ignoring my examples of an in-world lore that spellcasters have one-goblin precision and burning your party does not happen unless you want to (or are a wild mage)? Yep, for me it's end of discussion.
I think arguing about whether or not it's acceptable in PnP isnt' the only thing that should be considered. The area not being marked adds some challenge to the game and is part of the game play and has been for 15 years now. This is a significant change that many people don't feel is necessary or feel it will change their game play immensely. It removes some aspect of challenge when casting AoE spells that currently exists in the game, regardless of whether or not it is 100% true to PnP.
If it is to be implemented, it should most certainly be part of an easier play setting or entirely optional (preferred). IMO this is better left to a modder who would like to implement it if that's possible. I am in favor of independent difficulty modifiers as has been suggested in other threads, where you independently choose things such as spell scribe failure, max HP and monster damage, rather than it all being tied to just one difficulty slider. That sort of implementation would satisfy me. What would not satisfy me is to be forced to use the target area indicator at any time during my game play.
I really dislike the idea to add a marker for AOE spells. I don't want BG to become yet another modern game that plays itself.
There isn't much that I can add to what has already been said before, but I just wanted to express my opinion too.
Also, as already been said several times, if the devs should decide to implement this anyway, I hope they at least will make it so that it can be disabled in the options.
I think that it should be implemented as optional feature. But it definitely should be implemented.
Moreover I don't think that it's a question of difficulty. Sure you spend some time learning the radius of spells. But once you learned them, you knew them and that was it. It wasn't hard or anything it was just time consuming, and thats not the same thing, even if a lot of people think it is. So I red this whole thread and it all looks like you just want all the other, new, players to waste time like you did, learning this, instead of actually having fun doing something meaningful and not annoying. It's a game after all.
.Yeah, just like those pesky hard fights. They're not really a challenge, once you learn them and know them that is it, it's not really hard after that, just time consuming. New players shouldn't have to waste all that time like we did, learning how to play the game.
Ok, let me try that again, sorry I'm just in a bad mood today. First of all, we'll just have to disagree on whether or not it adds difficulty to the game, for me, even though I'm familiar now with ranges and area of effect, it is still something I have to take into consideration when I cast those spells, an AoE indicator would turn it into a brainless exercise. Also, such an indicator really changes the way the game is presented and plays. It's not that we want newer players to have to "waste" time, it's that we feel that the game as a package has a certain feel and look to it and would like everyone to have to opportunity to enjoy it that way. Also adding such an indicator, if depending on how well it's implemented, crosses a certain threshold for some of us on what type of game this is.
For me, I just ask not to have this forced on me. I absolutely do not want to have this in my game ever. That doesn't mean that other people shouldn't have that option, if indeed it is deemed a worthy priority. To me there are many other features I would like to see though before this is considered. It may be interesting to see a forum poll on this to see how this community feels about it (not that it's representative of all players, but still fun to see sometimes).
It's all well and good if one likes to ponder where to place a fireball. I don't, and I don't see the appeal of it either. By now I've reached the level of proficiency that I can fairly accurately place AoE effects, but that doesn't mean I'm entertained by doing so. When playing tabletop D&D, my wizard can cast a spell and choose on the square/hexa board the area affected by it. I cannot accept the reasoning that a computerized version of the game should deliberately have an arbitrary restriction in place, simply because "it's hardcore".
Of course, if this feature is not implemented because of it being too difficult to realize or there being not enough resources available for it, that I can understand. And if it does end up being implemented, I'm all for it being optional.
I don't know if it's possible but alot of spells have an area of effect and i think it would be great to see before you launch, let's say, a fireball, what area it's going to cover based on the center you selected.
I don't know if it's possible to add something like a semi-transparent colored zone for that kind of spell but it would really help. The distances in spells are in feets and even though i tried to memorize it, i'm never sure of how far the blast will go. It's even trickier with spells that don't really show an external line like the fireball does.
Anyway, it would be AWESOME if something like that could be added !
Like several other speakers above I would like it optional if at all implemented. It adds to the fun to carefully aim your fireball - or not very carefully if I have Edwin in my party...
Would it be possible to add a visual which shows the area of effect of certain types of spells before you cast them as in NWN2? Some spells like Cone of Cold can be hard to judge normally.
The devs should just copy Warcraft III - that game had AoE reticules that showed exactly how wide an area the spell would be hitting. This would be a god-send for spells like Fireball (circle) and Cone of Cold (cone).
And they coding, graphics and new things will take minths if not years, and I do not thing it is needed, I developed a Fireball area of affect sensor, but I still killing my fighters with Skull Trap, I do not know its precise range, but its smaller than the fireball.
I don't know how hard it would be to program in the Infanity Engine for a graphical affect in a circular area of diameter x around the curser...but if it was feasable, I'd love it to be included. It helps so much in Neverwinter Nights 2.
Personally I prefer not having a targetting indicator. I think it makes things more interesting to have to judge where to put the fireball, rather than being able to micro position it for absolute maximum effect.
If this would be implemented, I'd find it hard to believe that anyone would really miss the guesswork involved in the current model. Instead of using imagination to determine AoE, we would see it. Less time guessing, more time playing. Very ease-of-use, up to date with modern standards and less 90's. It's supposed to be enhanced edition, after all.
Please do add this! I could imagine this being implemented in iPad wherein you can press/hold and drag it with the AoE indicator following along. I'm not sure how feasible that feature is, or how you could make a compromise with the screen movement, but it is definitely something worth looking at. While at it, also please add indicator of some sorts to the enemy being targeted at with a spell - like they glow for a second or something. As of now, it's really difficult to know if you were able to target the spell as intended.
And such option would be nice to have under the "Gameplay"-screen, too many of the settings are hidden in the ini-file nowadays. However, this feature would be nice to have, optional or not: new players wouldn't have to learn spellcasting the hard way, and the sword coast veterans have at this point blasted their own party with a fireball once too many times to find such an event funny anymore. My opinion may be colored by the fact, that my longtime MP buddy likes to play as a mage and prefers offensive tactics.
Is it possible to mark AoE effects like Fireball with a yellow cone/circle/line/whatever shape the effect uses, like doors and containers are marked?
This area marker should be visible when choosing the spell to cast and it's target location (not visible while the spell is being cast, much like the Skill-Shot markers in DotA/League of Legends) as well as when Tab is pressed while an AoE effect is effecting an area.
@AendaeronBluescale have you ever thought how many coding would be needed to make this work??? And DotA and LoL are both Multiplayer based games where you do not have in-game-real-time-pause like in BG, PS:T, IWD, NWN, KotOR etc.
IMHO thinking about the amount of work required to add a new feature isn't something that a paying customer should have to think about. However, throwing these kind of ideas around should indeed be done now, while the game is still being under active development. Someday there will be the FINAL patch, and after that the game will remain as it is. Mods can usually do only so much. Maybe decade later somebody cooks up Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition Super Remixed X, but before that we will be stuck with what we have. Therefore it's better to go wild with suggestions now, since no amount of crying will enhance the game after it exits the active development and support phase.
About the feature in question: let's just say, that if the game would have been released with this feature on day 0, I would had happily bought it right away instead of waiting for a sale. However, I do tend to feel, that in the developer's point of view, justifying the amount of work required for this feature at this point is indeed a bit tricky: It could have been a sale booster at launch, and therefore an acceptable reason for the added workload required, but now people would expect such features to be included in a free patch. I do hope, that BG2:EE & DLC sales will keep the ball running and bring these kind of features closer to reality.
Would all of you stop whinning about the easiness of it if there existed a potion that granted you such ability.. or maybe reaching an intelligence of 19-20 would do the job?
Please don't resurrect old threads unless you have a new idea to contribute (and even then, it's often better to start a new thread or post in an existing one).
Comments
I never doubted that the spell area could be customized! don't ignore what I say or there can be no discussion
If it is to be implemented, it should most certainly be part of an easier play setting or entirely optional (preferred). IMO this is better left to a modder who would like to implement it if that's possible. I am in favor of independent difficulty modifiers as has been suggested in other threads, where you independently choose things such as spell scribe failure, max HP and monster damage, rather than it all being tied to just one difficulty slider. That sort of implementation would satisfy me. What would not satisfy me is to be forced to use the target area indicator at any time during my game play.
There isn't much that I can add to what has already been said before, but I just wanted to express my opinion too.
Also, as already been said several times, if the devs should decide to implement this anyway, I hope they at least will make it so that it can be disabled in the options.
Moreover I don't think that it's a question of difficulty. Sure you spend some time learning the radius of spells. But once you learned them, you knew them and that was it. It wasn't hard or anything it was just time consuming, and thats not the same thing, even if a lot of people think it is. So I red this whole thread and it all looks like you just want all the other, new, players to waste time like you did, learning this, instead of actually having fun doing something meaningful and not annoying. It's a game after all.
Ok, let me try that again, sorry I'm just in a bad mood today. First of all, we'll just have to disagree on whether or not it adds difficulty to the game, for me, even though I'm familiar now with ranges and area of effect, it is still something I have to take into consideration when I cast those spells, an AoE indicator would turn it into a brainless exercise. Also, such an indicator really changes the way the game is presented and plays. It's not that we want newer players to have to "waste" time, it's that we feel that the game as a package has a certain feel and look to it and would like everyone to have to opportunity to enjoy it that way. Also adding such an indicator, if depending on how well it's implemented, crosses a certain threshold for some of us on what type of game this is.
For me, I just ask not to have this forced on me. I absolutely do not want to have this in my game ever. That doesn't mean that other people shouldn't have that option, if indeed it is deemed a worthy priority. To me there are many other features I would like to see though before this is considered. It may be interesting to see a forum poll on this to see how this community feels about it (not that it's representative of all players, but still fun to see sometimes).
Of course, if this feature is not implemented because of it being too difficult to realize or there being not enough resources available for it, that I can understand. And if it does end up being implemented, I'm all for it being optional.
I don't know if it's possible to add something like a semi-transparent colored zone for that kind of spell but it would really help. The distances in spells are in feets and even though i tried to memorize it, i'm never sure of how far the blast will go. It's even trickier with spells that don't really show an external line like the fireball does.
Anyway, it would be AWESOME if something like that could be added !
Thanks for the great work !
The devs should just copy Warcraft III - that game had AoE reticules that showed exactly how wide an area the spell would be hitting. This would be a god-send for spells like Fireball (circle) and Cone of Cold (cone).
This area marker should be visible when choosing the spell to cast and it's target location (not visible while the spell is being cast, much like the Skill-Shot markers in DotA/League of Legends) as well as when Tab is pressed while an AoE effect is effecting an area.
And DotA and LoL are both Multiplayer based games where you do not have in-game-real-time-pause like in BG, PS:T, IWD, NWN, KotOR etc.
About the feature in question: let's just say, that if the game would have been released with this feature on day 0, I would had happily bought it right away instead of waiting for a sale. However, I do tend to feel, that in the developer's point of view, justifying the amount of work required for this feature at this point is indeed a bit tricky: It could have been a sale booster at launch, and therefore an acceptable reason for the added workload required, but now people would expect such features to be included in a free patch. I do hope, that BG2:EE & DLC sales will keep the ball running and bring these kind of features closer to reality.
Please don't resurrect old threads unless you have a new idea to contribute (and even then, it's often better to start a new thread or post in an existing one).