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Pure cleric kit in BGEE1

SouplesseSouplesse Member Posts: 131
edited June 2017 in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
Hello folks,

These days, i read some posts about C/M multi (of course) but also dual, a possibility i haven't think about.
I like the gnome multi, even there is a big lag for high arcane spells in SOA/TOB.
Dual seems to be the solution even i'm not so fan of the mechanics.

Before dualling, i have to play the whole bg1
in a puric cleric style...
I think i get it for the divine spells: Command, Hold, Holy smite, SILENCE, ans SILENCE again, DUHM.
But for the kit? "Don of Lathandre" vs "Seeking sword"?
You play your Cleric as a front liner? What weapon do you use as well? I don't want to play a useless caracter till SOA :)
I want to use the classic team by the way

Thanks

Post edited by Souplesse on

Comments

  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 992
    edited June 2017
    The dual class option is very strong. Well, you probably won't have the highest kill count early, but a pure Cleric is always very useful in a team, specially in BG1. Your spell repertoire for the cleric is good, but don't forget things like Animate Dead+Strength of One. With Haste from a mage, you'll have a pretty solid killing team. Add Chant and Bless on top for gravy.

    The most powergaming kit to choose is priest of Lathander, even moreso if you plan to dual into a mage : Seeking Sword renders you unable to cast any magic for its duration. This combo is a late bloomer (it all depends on how long you're willing to wait), but it will be impressive. Dual-wielding war hammers and buffed up by cleric and mage spells, you then add more attack per round from the priest kit and you got yourself an unstoppable killing machine.

    By doing this, you'll be leveling up as a single class mage and still have the most useful cleric spells if you dual somewhere after level 9. It's very good, but you'll have to deal with the down time of dual classing. You can still be a real juggernaut with a c/m multi character, but he will be slightly less strong than the dual class option, because nothing beats high level arcane magic. It all depends if you're willing to wait of not. Dualling at level 9 or 11, is actually not too bad : you'll recover your cleric level soon enough in SoA.

    However, to be honest, even though the dual class option is stronger, both are fine, so you can't go wrong with either of these. Multi will be more versatile throughout the whole game, dual will be slightly stronger but have to deal with off time. Your pick !!
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    edited June 2017
    I tend to play cleric's as frontliners UNLESS they are also mages. That partly explains why I prefer Branwen and Yeslick to Viconia.

    However, by adding a mage class, you are losing part of a cleric's tankiness and the character becomes much more artillery than infantry. Now, you *can* use spells to buff yourself into a tank, but that is a temporary change and it seems a waste of spell slots to me. (Again, your playing style may vary.)

    Post edited by tbone1 on
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    You could consider Priest of Tyr over Lathander.
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    ThacoBell said:

    You could consider Priest of Tyr over Lathander.

    Assuming you play with mods. That's not always a simple option on mobile platforms, some people aren't that technically savvy, and some (like my son) don't have permissions to add content.


  • SouplesseSouplesse Member Posts: 131
    @ThacoBell @tbone1
    Can you explain why you think of priest of Tyr?
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    About that mentioning of Silence above - I used to think Silence was a really good spell until I realized that Hold Person does effectively the same thing, with the same chance to work, and the effect is better if it lands. (The affected mage or cleric can't take any other actions and can't use Vocalize). And Hold Person is party friendly where Silence is not.

    The only case I can think of where Silence might be better is where there are multiple casters who are too spread out in their position to hit all of them with a Hold Person.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Souplesse said:

    @ThacoBell @tbone1
    Can you explain why you think of priest of Tyr?

    Well, everyone goes Lathander, being the powergaming option, and thats boring. Priest of Tyr is a comparable alternate. Divine favor gives bonuses to hit and damage that stacks up to +6, making it a decent alternatve. Even better is the Acclamation ability that removes fear, sleep, feeblemind, intoxication, berserk, and confusion. It also protects from those statuses for 1 round after the its cured.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,314
    BelgarathMTH said:

    About that mentioning of Silence above - I used to think Silence was a really good spell until I realized that Hold Person does effectively the same thing, with the same chance to work, and the effect is better if it lands. (The affected mage or cleric can't take any other actions and can't use Vocalize). And Hold Person is party friendly where Silence is not.

    The only case I can think of where Silence might be better is where there are multiple casters who are too spread out in their position to hit all of them with a Hold Person.

    If you're prepared to be cheesy then silence offers a lot more than hold person:
    - works on neutral stacks as well as hostile.
    - has a big area of effect and can be cast out of visual range of target.
    - -5 adjustment means it is highly likely to be effective (hold person has no modifier).
    - there are numerous targets whose script only triggers when they talk (and if they can't talk they won't even defend themselves in melee).
    If you want to play 'fair' then the area of effect and modifier still normally make it a better option against casters, although hold person is obviously more use against non-casters.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,651
    I like Talos clerics that eventually become mages. Fun to RP and a formidable caster at all levels.
  • SouplesseSouplesse Member Posts: 131
    @Grond0
    Aha I try to avoid this cheese.
    I don't silence/web encounters before they became hostile!
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    Souplesse said:

    Hello folks,

    These days, i read some posts about C/M multi (of course) but also dual, a possibility i haven't think about.
    I like the gnome multi, even there is a big lag for high arcane spells in SOA/TOB.
    Dual seems to be the solution even i'm not so fan of the mechanics.

    Before dualling, i have to play the whole bg1
    in a puric cleric style...
    I think i get it for the divine spells: Command, Hold, Holy smite, SILENCE, ans SILENCE again, DUHM.
    But for the kit? "Don of Lathandre" vs "Seeking sword"?
    You play your Cleric as a front liner? What weapon do you use as well? I don't want to play a useless caracter till SOA :)
    I want to use the classic team by the way

    Thanks

    I'm one of the bigger advocates of the C>M dual over the C/M multi around here. Clerics are really nice characters in BG1, since they're not nearly as squishy as a lot of other low-level classes and because divine spells are the bee's knees up through the first three or four levels.

    I do play my Cleric as a front-liner to take advantage of that big HP pool and heavy armor / helmet / shield. Weapon-wise, maces give you Stupifier and hammers give you Ashideena pretty early on. Flails gets you ready for Flail of Ages in BG2. Slings are your only ranged option. Quarterstaffs gives you access to the Staff Mace, which is actually the highest-damage one-handed weapon in BG1, but you're better off waiting until after you dual to put a point there.

    For kit, Priest of Lathander is the most powerful in the long run, but Priest of Helm is more powerful early on. Seeking Sword is eventually useless because it locks you out of spellcasting for its duration, which is terrible for a C>M, but early on when you don't have many spells (or good weapons) in the first place the fact that it gives you 3 APR is tremendous.

    Priest of Talos is probably the most thematic of the three base kits, but that requires you playing Evil which wouldn't mesh well with the canon party.
  • SouplesseSouplesse Member Posts: 131
    @SomeSort
    Ok, front liner is better for my "moral" in BG1!
    But in BG2 I don't think I'll take FOA for my self! I have a lot of choice for my fighters and I don't have to bring along Anomen or Aerie anymore ! Yeah !
    Jaheira with Clubs/Cim, Keldorn with Caso or dual Bastard swords and Minsc (long time not playing Minsc in bg2) or Mazzy! So Foa seems fit better with Minsc or Mazzy?! I think I'll stick with Qstaff and sling in bg2 but I maybe wrong in terms of fun/power gaming...
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Somesort and @Grond0 , Ah, I didn't know about the -5 save penalty for Silence. That does indeed make it the better caster disabler. I'll have to read the spell description again. Strange that I never noticed that save penalty before.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,314
    BelgarathMTH said:

    @Somesort and @Grond0 , Ah, I didn't know about the -5 save penalty for Silence. That does indeed make it the better caster disabler. I'll have to read the spell description again. Strange that I never noticed that save penalty before.

    The penalty wasn't shown in the original manual, though it was in the in-game description. Interestingly, I just looked at the Adventurer's Guide manual to check it was in that. It is, but that manual also says there is a -1 modifier on hold person. That isn't mentioned in the in-game descriptions of either the original game or Enhanced Edition, so I suspect it's an error in the manual - I haven't tested it though.
  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 526
    Im doing a helm cleric dual to mage now and great for BG1, likely dual once i get lvl 7 spell or start of SOA...downtime will suck
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    brunardo said:

    Im doing a helm cleric dual to mage now and great for BG1, likely dual once i get lvl 7 spell or start of SOA...downtime will suck

    Multiclasses are better, and they have no downtime :wink:
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,651
    Speaking of dual classes and save penalties, can any of you IE engine whiz kids tell me if a dual classed specialist Mage gets his save penalty for his chosen school on divine spells?
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    WarChiefZeke said:

    Speaking of dual classes and save penalties, can any of you IE engine whiz kids tell me if a dual classed specialist Mage gets his save penalty for his chosen school on divine spells?

    Grond0 said:

    He does - even when the mage class is inactive :D.

    Well that ... seems reasonable. I was going to say that it sucks, but it makes sense.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    Souplesse said:

    @SomeSort
    Ok, front liner is better for my "moral" in BG1!
    But in BG2 I don't think I'll take FOA for my self! I have a lot of choice for my fighters and I don't have to bring along Anomen or Aerie anymore ! Yeah !
    Jaheira with Clubs/Cim, Keldorn with Caso or dual Bastard swords and Minsc (long time not playing Minsc in bg2) or Mazzy! So Foa seems fit better with Minsc or Mazzy?! I think I'll stick with Qstaff and sling in bg2 but I maybe wrong in terms of fun/power gaming...

    Mazzy's a great choice for Flail of Ages. She's a bit proficiency starved if you're going to use her in melee, especially if you're going to dual-wield, so your choices are either don't develop proficiency points in your off-hand weapon, (Kundane is a good off-hand pick and takes advantage of the one Short Sword proficiency point you're forced to take), or else choose a weapon type that has weapons that are good in both the main hand *and* the off hand.

    Flails are a great pick there, with FoA in the main hand and Defender of Easthaven in the off-hand.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    ThacoBell said:

    brunardo said:

    Im doing a helm cleric dual to mage now and great for BG1, likely dual once i get lvl 7 spell or start of SOA...downtime will suck

    Multiclasses are better, and they have no downtime :wink:
    Welllllll... that bit about the downtime is kind of true and kind of not true. It's true that there's never a point where you're not both a cleric and a mage, but there's downtime in that it takes forever for you to actually get all the good mage goodies.

    The best part of the C/M combo is the metamagic, the ability to stuff Cleric spells into sequencers and contingencies. The C/M multi gets access to Spell Trigger more than a million and a half XP later than a C(11)>M dual, (my preferred dual-class point), and gets Chain Contingency nearly 2.5m experience later. Which is quite a bit of downtime.

    As for better... the most powerful force in BG2 is a high-level arcane caster, and the C>M dual is a higher-level arcane caster than the C/M multi. Therefore, the C>M dual is more powerful and, at least from a powergaming standpoint, "better".

    I went much more into detail about the differences between the C/M multi and C>M dual here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/863763/#Comment_863763
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @SomeSort While that is true, the high level mage spells are more like tasty cheese than necessary tactics, all the required tactical spells will be readily available for your M/C multi. Heck I've used Aerie as my ONLY caster in several runs, and she performs beautifully on her own.
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    @SomeSort and I had a good discussion about Aerie's versatility where we agreed to disagree in the end. I think that I prefer playing the combo as a multi rather than a dual because 1) I want access to all the spells, and 2) dualingTHAT late would take a long time for a mage to catch up. Also, none of the cleric kits seem appealing enough to make the dueling worthwhile for me, though I play modless and your mileage may vary.

    Attempting to get back on topic, I think a straight cleric is underrated. I don't think there is ever a time where you are weak, but never a time when you are the strongest, either. Many of the best weapons in SoA and ToB are available and some of the spells are sneaky-good. And if you want fun RPing, choose a dwarf or halfling. The former get our beloved shorty saves, the latter get those and a +1 bonus with a sling.

  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,651
    A Necromancer/Cleric is also underrated. :D
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