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Are wyverns "draconic"?

DragonOfShadesDragonOfShades Member Posts: 56
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
To be specific, does Ranger's dragon racial enemy bonus and Cavalier's bonus against dragons apply to wyverns?

Comments

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Yes.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    No.
    Dragons and wyverns are different races.
  • DragonOfShadesDragonOfShades Member Posts: 56
    Already answers contradicting each other, I'm still confused :(
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    Remark
    There are some dragons in the game that use Class Wyvern and also use a wyvern animation.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    DragonOfShades said:

    Already answers contradicting each other, I'm still confused :(

    I'm afraid the other poster is just wrong. Baldar's Gate counts wyverns as dragons for racial enemy and cavalier bonuses.

    It's worth noting that Baldur's Gate originally did not include the option to select racial enemies that where not in the game. Thus, you could not pick vampires, for example. You could pick dragons though, since it applied to wyverns.
  • NoobaccaNoobacca Member Posts: 139
    Fardragon said:

    DragonOfShades said:

    Already answers contradicting each other, I'm still confused :(

    I'm afraid the other poster is just wrong. Baldar's Gate counts wyverns as dragons for racial enemy and cavalier bonuses.

    It's worth noting that Baldur's Gate originally did not include the option to select racial enemies that where not in the game. Thus, you could not pick vampires, for example. You could pick dragons though, since it applied to wyverns.
    I don't believe that dragons were ever an option for a Rangers racial enemy in the original Baldur's Gate. Perhaps you had a modded version that allowed the option?
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    edited August 2017
    @kjeron How did you split the combat log this way? Do you know of something like this to check for speed factor?
    Post edited by Raduziel on
  • DragonOfShadesDragonOfShades Member Posts: 56
    kjeron said:

    Ranger - Favored Enemy (Hated Race:0, Hated Race:4)

    Cavalier - Bonus vs Draconic (Special Target:0, Special Target:3)

    All Wyverns are classified as wyverns
    All true Dragons are classified as dragons.
    The fake dragon familiars (Pseudo Dragon, Fairy Dragon) are classified as Wyverns.
    Dragon Racial Enemy and Cavalier Draconic Bonus do not apply to Wyverns.
    Many thanks!
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,367
    Raduziel said:

    @kjeron How did you split the combat log this way? Do you know of something like this to check for speed factor?

    The extra info is displayed when you add:
    SetPrivateProfileString('Game Options','Extra Combat Info','1') to Baldur.lua (located along side the folder for save games).
    Setting it to 0, or deleting the line, will remove the extra info.

    Weapon Speed has no display, but does have at least some random factor to it - two creatures with identical setups will not attack at identical times every round. However, it is irrelevant once you have 2 or more APR, since weapon speed is forcibly reduced to allow all attacks to occur within one round.
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    The favored enemy feature is based on the race field of the target creature. According to race.ids, wyvern is number 118 dragon is 146. So they are different.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    kjeron said:

    Weapon Speed has no display, but does have at least some random factor to it - two creatures with identical setups will not attack at identical times every round. However, it is irrelevant once you have 2 or more APR, since weapon speed is forcibly reduced to allow all attacks to occur within one round.

    I don't think it's irrelevant with only 2 APR. As APR gets higher I agree that will tend to force an initial attack to take place earlier in the round, but if you attack with something like a 2-handed sword with 2 APR your first attack will still take place late in the round.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    The only question that remains is... why the eff did Bioware set up these things like that? It doesn't follow any logic whatsoever for wyverns to not be counted as draconic critters.

    But then again, neither does it make sense for poison immune druids and monks to get intoxicated by a mug of ale. The number of questionable IE engine stuff is over 9000!
  • 11302101130210 Member Posts: 381
    Yes.

    Just as the "Charm Person" spell works on humanoids.

    You'd say a hobgoblin is of humanoid race, but not a human. Just like as you'd say a Wyvern is of draconic heritage, but far from being a dragon.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Hobgoblins are people too!
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    edited August 2017
    ThacoBell said:

    Hobgoblins Beagles are people too!

    Fixed that for ya.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    tbone1 said:

    ThacoBell said:

    Hobgoblins Beagles

    Oozes
    are people too!
    Fixed that for ya.
    Fixed that fix for ya.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    ...and here I thought only Soylent Green was people!
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited August 2017
    PaulaMigrate said:

    No.
    Dragons and wyverns are different races.

    Not sure about other editions but 2E considers them to be "distant cousins"

    Edit: Looks like in 5E they are still cousins to great dragons but are also considered to be large dragons themselves. So it's details may have changed over time.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    In 3rd they are a variety of lesser dragon, but decidedly a dragon, d12 and all. They aren't that bright, but are smarter than animals and can be trained to serve as mounts.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    elminster said:

    PaulaMigrate said:

    No.
    Dragons and wyverns are different races.

    Not sure about other editions but 2E considers them to be "distant cousins"

    Edit: Looks like in 5E they are still cousins to great dragons but are also considered to be large dragons themselves. So it's details may have changed over time.
    My answer was to the original question of how they are handled in the BG game, nothing else.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited August 2017
    PaulaMigrate said:

    elminster said:

    PaulaMigrate said:

    No.
    Dragons and wyverns are different races.

    Not sure about other editions but 2E considers them to be "distant cousins"

    Edit: Looks like in 5E they are still cousins to great dragons but are also considered to be large dragons themselves. So it's details may have changed over time.
    My answer was to the original question of how they are handled in the BG game, nothing else.
    Ohh I know. Just adding a bit of context to why the game doesn't consider them to be dragons (and how that has evolved since).
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